# How to use apostrophes, for fuck's sake - redux **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608 "2009-01-23T07:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/101 "2009-01-25T03:26:47Z")
I don’t really care all that much when people posting stuff in their free time online make mistakes with apostrophes. It does irritate me a little, and reminding people of the rules is a good idea. This rule is there to aid clarity. However, it seems that hardly anybody working at my daughter’s school can get it right. In year 6 SATs (aged 10-11), she’ll get penalised for not using apostrophes correctly - it can mean the difference between level 3a and level 4c.\* Yet her teachers are unable to meet this standard themselves. \*Really, this is more important for the school than for her, but it does affect her placement in classes once she starts secondary school. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/102 "2009-01-25T04:14:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I never even noticed my keyboard had a ` key until I read that post. I frequent another board for English teachers in Korea. Far too many of the posters there use the `instead of the apostrophe. What's alarming about that is not only are they English teachers, a good many of those using the` are teaching at universities! ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/103 "2009-01-30T21:47:30Z")
[Apostrophe catastrophe](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gqHbKAdUMsPIUMaJT-CAi1lIvt-wD961MQP00). ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/104 "2009-01-31T01:55:02Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > [Apostrophe catastrophe](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gqHbKAdUMsPIUMaJT-CAi1lIvt-wD961MQP00). From the link: > [@](#): > > In her best-selling book “Eats, Shoots and Leaves,” Lynne Truss recorded her fury at the title of the Hugh Grant-Sandra Bullock comedy “Two Weeks Notice,” insisting it should be “Two Weeks’ Notice.” 😕 I must be missing something as I cannot fathom why it would be a notice belonging to two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/105 "2009-01-31T03:09:59Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > 😕 > > I must be missing something as I cannot fathom why it would be a notice belonging to two weeks. I was thinking I’d write it “two week’s” but on second thought her way is probably better as it stresses the oneness of it. Anyway, it is along the same lines as “a year’s growth”, that is, a year’s worth of growth, not the growth of a years (whatever a “years” may be). ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/106 "2009-01-31T03:15:55Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > From the link: > 😕 > > I must be missing something as I cannot fathom why it would be a notice belonging to two weeks. But does the “s” denote a plural? How would you write “one week’s notice”? ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/107 "2009-01-31T04:52:26Z")
Looking at it I think it should be a two week notice, but I’m not familiar with the standard. If I give notice, it doesn’t necessarily matter what time period is involved; the notice is mine to give. If I give two weeks notice then, yes, it would seem plural, describing the number of weeks. I also feel it should be a one week notice, not a one weeks (or one week’s) notice. If I have one days rations left in the fridge, do the rations belong to the day? It seems more idiomatic to me and closer to the 80’s -v 80s question. In the case of 80s music, for example, the music would seem to belong to the eighties, but the issue isn’t really possession, it’s convention. I can justify it with, one day’s \*worth \*of rations, but that doesn’t help with two weeks _worth_ of notice. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/108 "2009-01-31T05:26:38Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > Looking at it I think it should be a two week notice, but I’m not familiar with the standard. > > If I give notice, it doesn’t necessarily matter what time period is involved; the notice is mine to give. > > If I give two weeks notice then, yes, it would seem plural, describing the number of weeks. I also feel it should be a one week notice, not a one weeks (or one week’s) notice. > > If I have one days rations left in the fridge, do the rations belong to the day? It seems more idiomatic to me and closer to the 80’s -v 80s question. In the case of 80s music, for example, the music would seem to belong to the eighties, but the issue isn’t really possession, it’s convention. > > I can justify it with, one day’s \*worth \*of rations, but that doesn’t help with two weeks _worth_ of notice. You’re taking it too literally. It would help if we started the using the older term genitive rather than possessive; they mean the same thing, but the word ‘possessive’ trips people up. The noun ‘week’ is in the genitive case there, meaning that you could replace it with ‘Susan’ - ‘Susan’s notice period is two weeks.’ It’s not saying that the weeks own anything. Susan doesn’t own the notice either, does she, but would you lose the apostrophe there? If you say John’s girlfriend, are you saying that John owns the girlfriend? In 80s music, the word 80s is an adjective, which written out in full would be eighties (not eighty’s or eighties’). You could change it to other adjectives like ‘British’ or ‘pop’ or ‘really bad’. The reason there’s confusion over whether or not to use the apostrophe is because people used to write numbers, initialisms and acronyms with apostrophes even when writing them as straightforward plurals. By the way, why wouldn’t ‘two weeks’ worth of notice’ work? 😕 It’s talking about an amount in the same way as one day’s rations is. ‘How much notice do you require?’ ‘Two weeks.’ ‘That’s two weeks’ notice then? OK, thanks.’ It’s not idiomatic, a matter of convention, or a matter of style (at least, no more than any other item of punctuation or grammar is), it’s a straightforward grammatical construct that happens to have a name that confuses people. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/109 "2009-01-31T13:23:33Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > .. It would help if we started the using the older term genitive rather than possessive; they mean the same thing, but the word ‘possessive’ trips people up. Thanks. That really helps. It also led me to the term [clitic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic). > [@](#): > > By the way, why wouldn’t ‘two weeks’ worth of notice’ work? 😕 Outside of this thread or a discussion of grammar, it’s redundant and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/110 "2009-01-31T18:52:35Z")
Birmingham joins the fray by _dropping_ the apostrophe. > [@](#): > > England’s second-largest city has decided to drop apostrophes from all its street signs, saying they’re confusing and old-fashioned. > > But some purists are downright possessive about the punctuation mark. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28938136/?gt1=43001](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28938136/?gt1=43001) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/111 "2009-02-02T21:31:02Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > “That’s rather small for a pie,” Sally said tartly. That was quite good. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/112 "2009-02-03T14:00:59Z")
The rule I’ve always found useful: When is it it’s? When it is it is. When is it its? When it isn’t it is. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/113 "2009-02-03T15:07:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why should it be a whoosh? I meant it as the possessive form of “it”. You undersood it as the possessive form, you understood it as referring to “each reference”, right? Wow! Whooshed yourself not once but twice! The possessive form of “it” is “its”, dumbass. It doesn’t matter what you meant it as, it is (or it’s) wrong! FTR the internet extends well beyond the US borders… and your limited comprehension of the english language apparently. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/114 "2009-02-04T09:38:41Z")
‘I’ ‘th’i’nk’ ‘t’h’a’t apos’tro’ph’e’s a’re awe’so’me an’d sh’ou’ld be’ use’d ‘as o’ften’ ‘a’s po’ss’ible’.’ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/115 "2009-02-05T07:14:06Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Wow! Whooshed yourself not once but twice! > The possessive form of “it” is “its”, dumbass. It doesn’t matter what you meant it as, it is (or it’s) wrong! > > FTR the internet extends well beyond the US borders… and your limited comprehension of the english language apparently. Wouldn’t that be the English language? ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/116 "2009-02-05T12:30:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wouldn’t that be the English language? Yep, Typo, must have missed shift key.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608/117 "2009-02-05T14:26:36Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > “That’s rather small for a pie,” Sally said tartly. My pi has been circumferencized, Sally said roundly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake-redux/482608.md?page=5)