# How to use apostrophes, for fuck's sake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336 "2003-05-20T13:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/41 "2003-05-21T05:33:00Z")
**Eve** , actually _1960’s_ is fine. It is also correct to write it without the apostrophe. Try reading the Sundad _Times_ with a mimosa and everything will be just fine. According to the sacred text known as _Harbrace_: 1. Us the apostrophe and _s_s for the plural forms of lowercase letters and of abbreviations followed by periods. 2. When needed to prevent confusion, the _'s_ is used for the plural of capital letters and of words referred to as words. Examples cited: 3. Either _'s_ or _s_ may be used to form such plurals as the following: a. the 1900’s or the 1900s b. two _B’s_ or two _Bs_ c. her _and_’s or her _ands_ d. his 7’s or his 7s e. the &'s or the &s f. the VFW’s or the VFWs Originally posted by **SHAKES** > [@](#): > > So this board is only welcomed to people with certain levels of education? * * * I don’t think most Dopers shun those who aren’t totally proficient in the language. Sometimes the use of the right punctuation mark makes a sentence more coherent, but most of us aren’t picky. (And most of us make mistakes from time to time. (Even the OP did.) The main rule at SDMB is _Don’t be a jerk._ That’s a much more important rule. I used to be an English teacher. You will still find mistakes in what I write. That’s because I choose not to look up every rule I’ve forgotten since I retired fourteen years ago. SDMB is generally very informal. There are others here who are very careful about what they write. That is their choice. Often they are people who particularly enjoy the language with all of its pecularities. I generally nitpick the grammar and punctuation of only those who make it an issue. My big red pen is out of ink. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/42 "2003-05-21T07:26:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Exactly. People who misuse apostrophes are ignorant. They’re ignorant of correct apostrophe usage. Why should attempts to educate people upset you so? If someone wants to correct me thats fine but if someone wants to belittle me becuase of a few gramatical errors on a board where we’re all just suposed to be having fun anyway. Well they can kiss my white ass. More than one poster in this thread were quick to call people morons becuase of this. Some even called it quite sad. Well let me tell you people something; my writting skills might be for shit; but I can tear apart some of the most sophisticated electronic equipment known to man (short of N.A.S.A) and put it back together again no problem. This in my opinion is something a _moron_ would be incapable of doing. My bosses seem to agree with this, thats why I’ve managed to dodge several layoffs since I’ve been working for the company that I do now. So to some it up; chill the fuck out. And if your really stressing over other peoples writting skills… SEEK HELP. And guess what I’m not even gonna proof read this post. So 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/43 "2003-05-21T07:39:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SisterCoyote \* > \*\ ***Cite** is a quotation, and a reference to the location where the quotation was found. > \*\* Not according to [Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=cite), it isn’t. _Cite_ is a verb - the noun form is _citation_, popular usage on this board notwithstanding. **Gaudere** is a cruel mistress. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/44 "2003-05-21T07:47:58Z")
Now, could you explain the use/non-use of apostrophe in the following phrase: His severance pay included six months’ wages. Whose possessive is that? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/45 "2003-05-21T07:51:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SHAKES \* > If someone wants to correct me thats fine but if someone wants to belittle me becuase of a few gramatical errors on a board where we’re all just suposed to be having fun anyway. Well they can kiss my white ass. > > More than one poster in this thread were quick to call people morons becuase of this. Some even called it quite sad. Well let me tell you people **something;** my \*\*writting skills might be for shit; **but I can tear apart some of the most sophisticated electronic equipment known to man (short of N.A.S.A) and put it back together again no problem.** Now obvious (and presumably humerous) typos aside, here we have one of my pet peeves: the use of a semi-colon, where a colon is required. You use a colon to direct attention to an answer, not a semi-colon. The correct phrase would of course be: “Well let me tell you people **something:** my \*\*writing skills might be for shit \*\*but I can tear apart some of the most sophisticated electronic equipment known to man” The first semi-colon should actually be a colon (to introduce your answer) and the second semi-colon is redundant. No, don’t thank me. It’s enough to know I’ve brought a little light into your world. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/46 "2003-05-21T08:02:39Z")
> [@](#): > > No, don’t thank me. It’s enough to know I’ve brought a little light into your world Hey, thanks for the light buddy, But I still find it quite funny how you’ve neglected to address the point I came across with. Must not have much of an arguement there I guess. ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/47 "2003-05-21T08:05:31Z")
It’s perfectly reasonable and useful to start a thread on this issue. What’s (see what I did there;)) intensely annoying is when posters make uninvited grammar corrections in unrelated threads. A particularly pernicious example of this is the use of “sic” when quoting other board members. If you resort to this when debating, I can only conclude that you’re an idiot. However, this thread gives free rein to the latent pedant in me… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*Your just picky. :mad: \*\* I’ve probably been wooshed but _you’re_ just wrong;). MWAP (who has had to hand himself over to the grammar police on more than one occasion). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/48 "2003-05-21T08:06:38Z")
**SHAKES** , calm down. The stuff in this thread is just good natured hyperbole. Don’t take it so personally. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/49 "2003-05-21T09:19:22Z")
OK, bear with me, I’m going to do one of those long defense/comment threads that have gotten so popular in the Pit of late. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sugaree_ > \*\*I found jjimm’s typo! I found the mistake! Gaudere strikes again. > > As has been mentioned, “whose” is a possessive pronoun that does not take an apostrophe. It is easily distinguished from “who’s,” the contraction of “who is.”\*\* Close, but no cigar (“whose” was right in context, wasn’t it?). > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by samarm_ > **So… the “sake” belongs to the “fuck”? How many sakes does fuck own, and can I borrow one?** The sake does indeed belong to the fuck - the phrase is derived from “For God’s sake”, in which there is only one sake, but made profane rather than blashpemous. Though by linking the two, I’ve now made the phrase both profane _and_ blasphemous. **Monty** , nice rant - sorry I missed it first time round. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by LolaCocaCola_ > **I only see it fitting that jjimm be dubbed the Grammar Police.** Why thank you ma’am, but I favour _The Apostrophe Nazi_. **SHAKES** : hurrah! I was wondering if _someone_ would be offended by my deliberately non-insulting OP. You didn’t let me down. Thanks! (BTW, some of my best friends can’t use apostrophes.) **Scarlett67** , **Zoe** , shame on you for reintroducing the reason that people get so confused in the first place. That wasn’t the mistake I made (please see the footnote to my OP). 😉 Now make a pile of _Harbraces_ and burn them. I think you’ll get a few more pluses in your PhDs if you mind your ps and qs in the '00s. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Cicada2003_ > **Now, could you explain the use/non-use of apostrophe in the following phrase: His severance pay included six months’ wages.** Certainly: the wages were derived from those six months. Therefore they’re the wages of the months - and thus the months’ wages. (_Fowler_ says this is entirely correct. Time increments “may be treated as possessives and given an apostrophe”.) Nobody’s found the real error in the OP yet… Hint: it’s factual, not grammatical. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/50 "2003-05-21T09:47:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Hint: it’s factual, not grammatical. You don’t own a patronising nitpick factory do you 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/51 "2003-05-21T09:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*You don’t own a patronising nitpick factory do you 😉 \*\* OK, two errors then (unless my brain counts as a factory). ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/52 "2003-05-21T09:52:39Z")
Regarding cases like > [@](#): > > There are three ws [or w’s] in the acronym for the world wide web. shouldn’t it realy\* be > [@](#): > > There are three 'w’s in the acronym for the world wide web. ? At least one deliberate error included in this post ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/53 "2003-05-21T10:09:54Z")
I would say there are three Ws in the acronym… ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/54 "2003-05-21T10:18:02Z")
> [@](#): > > SHAKES: hurrah! I was wondering if someone would be offended by my deliberately non-insulting OP. You didn’t let me down. Thanks! (BTW, some of my best friends can’t use apostrophes.) **Damn!** I’ve been whooshed! And by the denizens of my own community! Jeesh…:smack: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/55 "2003-05-21T10:20:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Ooh, never thought of that. Pronoun _one_ possessive is _one’s_. Don’t ask me why, or how I know. If I’m proved wrong I’ll cry. > > _Its > His > Hers > Theirs > Ours > Whose_ > but > _One’s > Of which_ > > I just checked in Fowler’s Modern English Usage, and this is correct. > \*\* So the rule is: possessive cases take the apostrophe, except for personal pronouns (its, his, hers, etc.) Oh, except _one’s_. And this according to _Fowler’s Modern English Usage_. Notice **Modern-Usage** , not, **Historical-Logic**. I believe that historically the possessive apostrophe served exactly the same role as the eliding apostrophe – once upon a time the _axe belonging to John_ would be _Johnes axe_\* (the _es_ possessive form coming from German influences), subsequently the “e” was elided to give the form _John’s_. The possessive of _one_ did not require the _es_ ending, so _ones_ did not take an apostrophe. A million spelling mistakes later, we invoke **Modern Usage** and perversely declare that _ones_ should now properly be spelled _one’s_. Bah! and Humbug! One’s not amused. - and not, as popular belief would have it, _John his axe_ _caveat: I am not a certified grammarian_ ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/56 "2003-05-21T10:21:18Z")
On the subject of the error, I suppose you could criticise **2: Apostrophes denote either a missing letter, or possession.** and say that "Apostrophes denote one or more missing letters . . . " ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/57 "2003-05-21T10:33:34Z")
Go **Jabba**! That was it! Well done. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/58 "2003-05-21T10:40:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Close, but no cigar (“whose” was right in context, wasn’t it?). > > Nobody’s found the real error in the OP yet… Hint: it’s factual, not grammatical. \*\* No, I wasn’t criticizing your use of “whose.” I thought you forgot to separate your dependent clause from your independent with a comma in this sentence: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*If it’s a plural and a possessive then you move the apostrophe to the end of the word. \*\* And before **irishbird** cringes at my use of “separate,” I can’t find “seperate” in the dictionary! ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/59 "2003-05-21T10:48:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cicada2003 \* > \*\*Now, could you explain the use/non-use of apostrophe in the following phrase: His severance pay included six months’ wages. > > Whose possessive is that? \*\* The wages belong to the months (all six of them), so one might expand the sentence to: “His severance pay included the wages of six months.” Therefore the possessive " 's " goes on the end of “months”, but eliding the final s for the sake of pronunciation so you don’t end up sounding like Gollum. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/60 "2003-05-21T10:50:05Z")
Oh. Did it need a comma? It would be more clear if it had one, wouldn’t it. I don’t recognise **irishbird’s** complaint, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336.md?page=4)