# How to use apostrophes, for fuck's sake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336 "2003-05-20T13:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/81 "2003-05-21T16:28:00Z")
Sorry on the “handful” biz. The its/hers mixup and the “never used in a plural” were the ones that made my little grammar-schnauzer ears perk up. As for twin dashes, [check out this page on dashes](http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/dash.htm): > [@](#): > > Use a dash [—] **(or two hyphens [–] on old-fashioned typewriters)** or dashes as a super-comma or set of super-commas to set off parenthetical elements, especially when those elements contain internal forms of punctuation: (emphasis added) I have the annoying tendency to surround my double-hyphens with spaces. It just looks wrong to me not to do so, but doing so is an error. The correct way to set off a phrase with dashes is as follows: > [@](#): > > All four of them—Bob, Jeffrey, Jason, and Brett—did well in college. Note that on my keyboard, the hyphen (-) is the only dash available; the em-dash (—) is not available by any normal means I know of. (I’ve reproduced it here by cutting and pasting). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/82 "2003-05-21T16:47:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > **Sorry on the “handful” biz.** I wasn’t really offended. “Sure the words that I told you were only in jest…” Is there a transatlantic schism on the use of em dashes? I usually see them either as regular dashes, or em dashes with spaces around them over here. As you said, a lack of spaces around them looks a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![jewfrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jewfrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jewfrey)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/83 "2003-05-21T17:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*You don’t own a patronising nitpick factory do you 😉 \*\* either that or this isn’t a _well-educated_ board … 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/84 "2003-05-21T17:40:44Z")
The em dash is alt-0151 on a PC. (Hold down alt while typint “0151” on the numeric keypad.) The en dash is alt-0150 There usually is a distinction between when the en- and when the em- dash are used. Generally, the en-dash is used for inclusive figures, periods of time, and that sort of thing. Eg: The years 1947–1952 He will be gone April–October. (Better perhaps to leave the preposition in in cases like these.) The em-dash is used for asides, breaks in thought, long pauses and the such (as in **Daniel** ’s example above.) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/85 "2003-05-21T17:55:42Z")
Affect / effect: One of my pet peeves is people who use “impact” instead of “affect” because they don’t know how to spell it. (How does this impact the bottom line?) Ugh! Another pet peeve: definately. Ugh! It’s “definitely”! ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/86 "2003-05-21T18:01:26Z")
jjimm, for this thread, I sincerely thank you! Thank you! As for your OP factual errors, I submit: Being in Ireland, you could not possibly have eaten _any_ burritos or tamales. Also, sake should be served at the temperature recommended by the brewer ( yes, sake is brewed ). Not all varieties of sake are served hot. Some are best at room temperature, and others taste best when ice-cold ( without ice, of course ). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/87 "2003-05-21T18:05:58Z")
**sailor** - I’m not a huge fan of “impact” as a transitive verb, either, but it’s pretty much got a fairly solid foothold in our language. [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) has some [pretty interesting usage remarks](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=impact) on this topic. While I personally don’t like it, I really can’t see the problem with the word. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/88 "2003-05-21T18:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > “Mind your p’s and q’s” Why does it hurt when I p and q? ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/89 "2003-05-21T18:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Now obvious (and presumably humerous) typos aside, here we have one of my pet peeves: the use of a semi-colon, where a colon is required. You use a colon to direct attention to an answer, not a semi-colon. > > The correct phrase would of course be: > > “Well let me tell you people **something:** my \*\*writing skills might be for shit \*\*but I can tear apart some of the most sophisticated electronic equipment known to man” > > The first semi-colon should actually be a colon (to introduce your answer) and the second semi-colon is redundant. > > No, don’t thank me. It’s enough to know I’ve brought a little light into your world. \*\* Gary, you missed a period. Don’t worry, you’re probably not pregnant. Not only is your punctuation deficient, but also your spelling. I submit: The _humerus_ is the bone of the upper arm. “Humorous/Humourous” (oh God! Those extra “U’s”!) means “funny” or, infrequently these days, “moist”. Thank you, and, you’re welcome! ---
**Author:** ![julian64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aca169/32.png) [@julian64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/julian64)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/90 "2003-05-21T18:35:58Z")
## quote: ## Originally posted by Cicada2003 Now, could you explain the use/non-use of apostrophe in the following phrase: His severance pay included six months’ wages. Certainly: the wages were derived from those six months. Therefore they’re the wages of the months - and thus the months’ wages. (Fowler says this is entirely correct. Time increments “may be treated as possessives and given an apostrophe”.) Yep; or an easier way to think of this is “could I insert the word ‘of’ indicating possession between ‘months’ and ‘wages’?” Yes, I could: “six months OF wages.” So the apostrophe, indicating possession, is correct in this case. Mind you, I’m paranoid that someone reading my CV will think my correct use of the apostrophe in “14 years’ experience” is “wrong” that I write “14 years of experience” instead. It’s especially important not be _thought_ to be making a mistake when you’re a technical author, copywriter and proofreader by trade! ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/91 "2003-05-21T18:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by julian64 \* > \*\*quote: > Mind you, I’m so paranoid that someone reading my CV will think my correct use of the apostrophe in “14 years’ experience” is “wrong” that I write “14 years of experience” instead. It’s especially important not be _thought_ to be making a mistake when you’re a technical author, copywriter and proofreader by trade! \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Another\_Clone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9a140/32.png) [@Another\_Clone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Another_Clone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/92 "2003-05-21T18:47:53Z")
You know, folks, I really appreciate all your hard work and the effort you’ve put into the saving of apostrophes (the apostrophes’ saving) but - well, folks just don’t like them any more and I think they’re fast becoming an endangered species. Any day now I expect to see one pickled in a jar and on permanent display in a language laboratory. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/93 "2003-05-21T19:10:44Z")
Are you kidding, **Clone**?! Looks to me like they’re breeding out of control, spreading like kudzu or cane toads. Somebody needs to invent an apostrophage. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/94 "2003-05-21T19:16:37Z")
Damn you, Daniel, I was about to suggest that we need some sort of breeding program for apostrophe predators! ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/95 "2003-05-21T19:27:08Z")
I find it troublesome to use apostrophes correctly when writing English, since Dutch conventions are rather different. An apostrophe in Dutch is used primarily for legibility, and for denoting a ‘missing’ possessive ‘s’. Normal possessive case is denoted with a simple s. E.g. The car of Peter = Peters auto The car of Hans = Hans’ auto. The cars of Hans = Hans’ auto’s. As a consequence I do have to take care, especially when using possessive cases, that I won’t screw up. It’s not a question of ignorance, simply the confusion of writing in several different languages. I’m a bit surprised that this is not more common among ‘foreign’ Dopers. ( **elfje** apparently has become fully assimilated 😉 ) (Now watch me brave Gaudere’s law) ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/96 "2003-05-21T19:35:59Z")
I also have problems with Random Capital Letters. The engineers I work with like to capitalize nouns and adjectives, and sometimes just any word at all. I am always decapitating their sentences. (Yes, I know that word means something else). We also have company certificates and official documents that mix up ‘effect’ and ‘affect’. I too have trouble remembering it is ‘definitely’ and not ‘definately’. It helps me to remember the word ‘finite’ is contained in ‘definite’. For some reason I never try to spell ‘finite’ as ‘finate’. If someone wants to tell me if I incorrectly placed my punctuation marks outside of my quotation marks, or that I did not need to use quotation marks, They are ‘Free’ to ‘Do’ so. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/97 "2003-05-21T19:40:04Z")
TTT, that is very interesting. Any day now pretentious people in the U.S. will probably take up the trendy European style of apostrophization, since everyone knows (even blustering insecure Americans) that European culture is superior, dontcha know. Seriously, we will have to be a little more tolerant of our European friends who, after all are doing a much better job of speaking & writing English than most of us on this side of the pond do with any second language. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/98 "2003-05-21T19:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OxyMoron \* > \*\*Damn you, Daniel \*\* Coals to Newcastle, my friend. Coals to Newcastle. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/99 "2003-05-21T20:02:48Z")
Drat. I knew about cite/citation. Silly me. Sigh. No one’s brought up “a lot” in this thread yet, so since it’s one of my personal pet peeves, I will. It is two words, people. “a” “lot.” Not one word. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336/100 "2003-05-21T23:31:39Z")
Alright! Thank’s! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-use-apostrophes-for-fucks-sake/176336.md?page=6)