# How Trump can lose and stay on. Opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 17, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091 "2019-05-17T01:22:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/21 "2019-05-17T18:28:10Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > [Remember, if the Republicans try to “rig” a state’s votes, the Democrats can challenge it when they are counted on January 6, and keep in mind that is after the newly elected Congress is seated; if, say, the House votes to accept the electoral votes for the Democrat and the Senate votes for Trump, it goes to “the executive of the state” to decide which to count. Wrong. From [URL=“[https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/](https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/)”][history.house.gov](http://history.house.gov)]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21603110&postcount=62](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21603110&postcount=62)) > [@](#): > > Since 1887, 3 U.S.C. 15 sets the method for objections to electoral votes. During the Joint Session, Members of Congress may object to individual electoral votes or to state returns as a whole. An objection must be declared in writing and signed by at least one Representative and one Senator. In the case of an objection, the Joint Session recesses and each chamber considers the objection separately in a session which cannot last more than two hours with each Member speaking for no more than five minutes. After each house votes on whether or not to accept the objection, the Joint Session reconvenes and both chambers disclose their decisions. If they agree to the objection, the votes in question are not counted. If either chamber does not agree with the objection, the votes are counted. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/22 "2019-05-17T18:33:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obviously it wouldn’t stand up for twenty minutes to any kind of a court challenge, but could the legislature pass that kind of _ex post facto_ law? The laws that control an election are the laws in force at the time of the election. I agree. Legislatures can set up whatever kind of election procedures they want before an election. But I don’t think they can enact a law that overturns an election that’s already happened. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/23 "2019-05-17T19:04:09Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > [In fact, I can see the other way around - where Trump appears to get a majority of the electoral votes but ends up losing - happening](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21603110&postcount=62), and Democratic governors play a major role in this. > > Remember, if the Republicans try to “rig” a state’s votes, the Democrats can challenge it when they are counted on January 6, and keep in mind that is after the newly elected Congress is seated; if, say, the House votes to accept the electoral votes for the Democrat and the Senate votes for Trump, it goes to “the executive of the state” to decide which to count. If this got to SCOTUS, I don’t see how they wouldn’t rule in Trump’s favor. They’d just default to “did Trump win the Electoral College according to how it should be done? Yes? Then case over.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/24 "2019-05-17T19:12:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If this got to SCOTUS, I don’t see how they wouldn’t rule in Trump’s favor. They’d just default to “did Trump win the Electoral College according to how it should be done? Yes? Then case over.” I hope you’re right about that. In another thread we recently had a poster suggest that adherence to SCOTUS decisions was voluntary and that blue states might just start ignoring them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/25 "2019-05-17T19:18:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I hope you’re right about that. In another thread we recently had a poster suggest that adherence to SCOTUS decisions was voluntary and that blue states might just start ignoring them. Link, please? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/26 "2019-05-17T19:25:25Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > … However, **HD** ’s usage of lower case “d” and shortening of Democratic Party to dems seems fine to me. It doesn’t seem disparaging in any context nor does it seem to be the intent here. Thanks for acknowledging this, BTW. It’s simply short-hand, not intended in any sort of derogatory fashion. And on a more general note, thanks for your recent efforts to improve the tenor of discussion here. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/27 "2019-05-17T19:26:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Link, please? [Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21646714#post21646714) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/28 "2019-05-17T19:34:16Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Wrong. From [history.house.gov](https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/) From Title 3, Section 15 of the United States Code: _“But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.”_ I am assuming that “the executive of the State” is the governor of that state. If a Democratic governor “certifies” that the Democrat gets the electoral votes, then the Democrat gets them. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/29 "2019-05-17T19:37:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks for acknowledging this, BTW. It’s simply short-hand, not intended in any sort of derogatory fashion. And on a more general note, thanks for your recent efforts to improve the tenor of discussion here. Thanks! I’m doing it for selfish reasons because I really like this place and want to keep it worth visiting. Thank you for doing the same! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/30 "2019-05-17T19:41:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21646714#post21646714) Thank you-That idea is crazy and/or ignorant, of course. No matter what side you’re on that just isn’t right. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/31 "2019-05-17T19:51:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you-That idea is crazy and/or ignorant, of course. No matter what side you’re on that just isn’t right. I agree, and I was heartened that it got fairly substantial push-back from multiple posters of various political persuasions (I think) right in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/32 "2019-05-17T20:21:38Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > From Title 3, Section 15 of the United States Code: > > _“But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.”_ > > I am assuming that “the executive of the State” is the governor of that state. If a Democratic governor “certifies” that the Democrat gets the electoral votes, then the Democrat gets them. Aren’t the electors certified before the vote? I believe that this clause is saying that if the two chambers can’t agree, then the votes of the original, certified electors are used. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/33 "2019-05-17T23:09:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I agree, and I was heartened that it got fairly substantial push-back from multiple posters of various political persuasions (I think) right in that thread. When I first read that post I only skimmed it. The impression I had then was the poster was basically saying: _“If SCOTUS makes abortion illegal there would still be some blue states that would “allow” abortions because women won’t stop needing them just because it’s illegal so better to have competent doctor’s and proper facilities than back-alley stuff.”_ I thought he/she was implying that some states would “look the other way” when abortions were performed under those circumstances. But then I re-read it and saw that he/she wrote: > [@Solution to the abortion madness? Make vasectomies for men universally available for free/low cost](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-the-abortion-madness-make-vasectomies-for-men-universally-available-for-free-low-cost/834076/16): > > a coalition of Blue States will […] continue to allow legal abortion in those states Which is wrong on the face of it because abortion would no longer be legal, and: > [@](#): > > SCOTUS relies on voluntary compliance, after all. I suppose it’s true the Justices wont try to physically stop you if you violate their rulings, but other sectors of the U.S. government might be a bit less passive. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/34 "2019-05-17T23:20:49Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Remember, if something like that were to happen, Democrats would seek revenge. Bigly. > > . I wish. The democrats are disorganized pussies who are terrified of republicans and rich people being mean to them. They’ll probably roll over and accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/35 "2019-05-17T23:23:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Unfortunately, what you outline does not strike me as impossible. It would trigger a real Constitutional crisis. There’s already a crazy dem running around the country telling everyone she “won” her race in Georgia (she did not). In between voter suppression efforts and questionable results in the machines, she has a point. [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/12/georgia-voting-states-elections-1162134](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/12/georgia-voting-states-elections-1162134) > **[Computer files at the heart Georgia election security case deleted day after...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/10/26/computer-files-heart-georgia-election-security-case-deleted-day-after-suit-filed/803579001/)** > > The suit was filed on July 6. The files were deleted July 7. > **[Georgia election fight shows that black voter suppression, a southern...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/georgia-election-fight-shows-that-black-voter-suppression-a-southern-tradition-still-flourishes)** > > Georgia’s Republican Secretary of State Brian Kemp has been sued after an Associated Press investigation revealed that his office suppressed 53,000 voter registrations – most of them filed by African-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/36 "2019-05-18T00:45:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not to mention that the governors of PA, MI & WI are dems, so they could veto the bill. Then competing slates of electors get to have their votes counted at a joint session of Congress presided over by Mike Pence. If ABC/CBS/NBC/AP/CNN project, after the election, that Trump lost, the only sure prediction is that DJT won’t accept the result as fair. He could do anything from order the Secret Service to defend the White House gates, to flee the country to live the rest of his life in one of his overseas golf properties. Whatever he does, it won’t be be what a President who respects democratic norms does. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/37 "2019-05-18T01:17:47Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I wish. The democrats are disorganized pussies who are terrified of republicans and rich people being mean to them. They’ll probably roll over and accept it. Pussies or not, people hold grudges. Remember how long Southerners held a grudge against Republicans\* after the disagreement over Reconstruction. - Republicans aka, Reps, Pubbies, GOP, Rs, elephant party, etc. All of which I use randomly, none of which I try to imply any different tone to than any other. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/38 "2019-05-18T01:39:58Z")
Would all you people, Dems, Demonrats, Reps, Republicans, etc., please read [https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2019/Pres/Maps/May16.html#item-7](https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2019/Pres/Maps/May16.html#item-7). The Votemaster is generally pretty level-headed and if he thinks it possible, it is possible. Note that, as he explains that the legislature could simply ignore the vote and choose the elector and apparently the governor has no role. I would be on surer ground had the item been signed by (Z), a historian. And my question is how would the public, especially Republicans react to such a scenario? The party seems to have gone thoroughly the “end justifies the means”, but have their voters. Is it conceivable that something like this would finally lead to the demise of the electoral college? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/39 "2019-05-18T04:06:43Z")
Great link. I was particularly intrigued by the author’s scenario whereby we could have a President Trump but Democratic vice president (i.e., Stacey Abrams.) If that happened, we can expect to see a spate of assassination attempts on the president’s life like never before seen. (Ditto if we had a Democratic president but Republican veep.) ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091/40 "2019-05-19T02:34:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I hope you’re right about that. In another thread we recently had a poster suggest that adherence to SCOTUS decisions was voluntary and that blue states might just start ignoring them. I agree that this is wrong but I find myself thinking it just as likely red states ignore a SCOTUS ruling. We already have a President and AG who have taken the position they can ignore the oversight authority of Congress and subpoenas they find to be inconvenient. It isn’t hard to imagine them ignoring any ruling by SCOTUS on this matter that doesn’t go their way. The states would simply be taking their cue from the President. And it is highly unlikely the Court will back the POTUS on all of the legal challenges we will see soon, no matter how stacked my fellow Democrats think the Court is at present. I suspect Trump & Co. are likely to win on some issues and lose on others. I am curious to see how they will react to the ones they lose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-trump-can-lose-and-stay-on-opinions/834091.md?page=3)