# How U.S. Religious Righters Managed to Miss the Whole Point of Their Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296 "2009-05-04T16:12:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/1 "2009-05-04T16:12:23Z")
I’ve had the idea of this thread in my mind for years, but reading the “Churchgoing Torturer” thread inspired me to write it. I’m a dyed in the wool atheist, but I was brought up nominally Catholic and even as a disinterested, skeptical 8 year old in CCD class, I was able to grok that amongst Jesus’s most significant teachings are: [ol] [li]Judge not, lest ye be judged.[/li][li]Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.[/li][li]Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.[/li][li]If your enemy strikes your cheek, turn the other cheek and let him strike that one too.[/li][li]Love your neighbor as yourself.[/li][/ol] Now, I recognize that this isn’t an exhaustive list of Jesus’s teachings and that there is plenty of less cumbaya-ish stuff in there, but clearly Christians have a pretty strong imperative to threat everyone decently and without judgment. Further, I’m pretty sure that another big component of Christian teaching (coming from Paul in this case) is the idea that Jesus’s death created a new covenant between God and his believers rendering most of the crap in the Old Testament largely obsolete - hence the reason that Christians don’t have to be Kosher, amongst other things. All of which leaves me thoroughly flummoxed when I hear your average Bible-Thumping Conservative hold forth on many issues like gay marriage, not to mention the judgmental, holier-than-thou streak which typifies said group. Obviously the cynical interpretation, which is the one I favor, is that these people are just using religion as cover for their own prejudices and preconceptions. However, in my more charitable moments I’m forced to wonder how the hell these people managed to so spectacularly misinterpret their own religion. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/2 "2009-05-04T16:30:39Z")
I can only guess, but I think it is that way, because it’s always been that way. I often tell people, living like Jesus is a great way to live … if you want to be a destitute intellectual, panhandling for a living, until the central government strings you up, sometime around age 27. For example, > [@](#): > > If your enemy strikes your cheek, turn the other cheek and let him strike that one too. Did the Roman emperor Constantine, when he initially allowed Christianity to continue, really put this particular tenet into practical use? Can any government, run a military and defend it’s borders, and follow this particular rule to the letter? Once you begin making … situational ethics decisions like this, the status quo just sort of falls into place. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/3 "2009-05-04T16:38:30Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > Now, I recognize that this isn’t an exhaustive list of Jesus’s teachings Those “teachings” are irrelevant to Christianity. Salvation has nothing to do with following any examples that Jesus did. This is why they can be ignored and/or followers can be inconsistent in applying them in their lives. > [@](#): > > I’m forced to wonder how the hell these people managed to so spectacularly misinterpret their own religion. Thoughts? I don’t think they misinterpret their own religion. Christianity believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins and believing in that alone will be salvation. That’s it. If that’s what they believe, then they are interpreting Christianity correctly. Memorizing or following other parables such as “_turn the other cheek_” are irrelevant to Christianity. I think there’s confusion with Jesus’ teachings vs Christianity. They are not the same thing. They are mutually exclusive. I always chuckle at deciding morals by invoking the “_what would Jesus do?_” analysis. If one wants to have a shot at 100% consistency, it’s best to ignore all of Jesus’ actions before his crucifixion. Otherwise, you will eventually paint yourself into a corner and be labeled a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/4 "2009-05-04T16:38:51Z")
Somebody (and I can’t remember who) noted once that Christianity really took off when its leaders realized that it was easier to worship Jesus than to emulate Him. Christianity is not a practical religion for someone who wants to live in the world in any sort of comfort. Early Christianity was communistic, which is right out today for any mainstream (or evangelical/fundamentalist) denomination. When’s the last time someone you know got baptized and gave away all of their possessions, as Jesus taught? How many professed Christians in government (and HOW MANY we have there, truly…) do you know who would suggest that we just ignore Al Qaeda? Or even more shocking, forgive them for their transgression against us? As Jesus taught… ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/5 "2009-05-04T16:49:14Z")
I understand that following ALL of Jesus’s teachings is impractical (Ned Flanders: I do everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff), but when I hear some of the more judgmental things that the RR says, its not just that they are different that what Jesus did. In fact, they are _the exact opposite of a central tenet of Christ’s teachings_. You can’t say “As a Christian what Jesus says isn’t really what I have to do.” No? If that is the case, there really isn’t a religion left, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/6 "2009-05-04T16:52:59Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > All of which leaves me thoroughly flummoxed when I hear your average Bible-Thumping Conservative hold forth on many issues like gay marriage, not to mention the judgmental, holier-than-thou streak which typifies said group. Obviously the cynical interpretation, which is the one I favor, is that these people are just using religion as cover for their own prejudices and preconceptions. Heck, I’m a church-going Catholic and I share that view. My last project manager was a holier-than-thou bigot who, among other things, could rant for hours about how she was so religious and we weren’t; she actually had no idea whether any of us were or weren’t, as we did the polite equivalent of sticking our fingers in our ears while singing loudly, rather than get into a “who pees holiest” contest. In general when I encounter people like that I’m in a situation where I can avoid them, but this wasn’t such a case. Analyzing her views in these and many other things, I reckoned that she was a person who never questions authority and hates change; the fact that her own boss was able to change her mind five times in as many minutes drove my boss up the wall, as it went against both of these things. She’s a church-going Catholic because that’s what the authorities in her life (parents, teachers) told her to be. She’s an ambitious professional, but believes with her whole heart that the peak of a woman’s life and ambitions is to become “Mrs. Important Man” and have half a dozen children without her husband ever seeing her naked… If it wasn’t because people like that get others killed, they’d be more pitiable than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/7 "2009-05-04T16:54:04Z")
Entropy. I’d bet in another 2000 years a central tenet of Christianity may very well be, “He who dies with the most wins.” All religions begin to be bastardized almost as soon as they’re formed. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/8 "2009-05-04T16:55:08Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’d bet in another 2000 years a central tenet of Christianity may very well be, “He who dies with the most wins.” You misspelled Calvinism and got the date wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/9 "2009-05-04T17:02:55Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > Those “teachings” are irrelevant to Christianity. Salvation has nothing to do with following any examples that Jesus did. This is why they can be ignored and/or followers can be inconsistent in applying them in their lives. … > I think there’s confusion with Jesus’ teachings vs Christianity. They are not the same thing. They are mutually exclusive. Interesting. If this is the case, then maybe “christianity” as it’s being practiced now, needs a complete overhaul. Maybe it’s time to “go back to basics”. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/10 "2009-05-04T17:11:06Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > I don’t think they misinterpret their own religion. Christianity believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins and believing in that alone will be salvation. That’s it. If that’s what they believe, then they are interpreting Christianity correctly. Memorizing or following other parables such as “_turn the other cheek_” are irrelevant to Christianity. > > I think there’s confusion with Jesus’ teachings vs Christianity. They are not the same thing. They are mutually exclusive. This is what “Christianity believes”? It may be what _some_ Christians believe, and they have apparently managed to convince you, and too many other people, that that’s essentially what Christianity is. There are indeed Christians who believe that being a Christian means following Jesus, and who take his teachings seriously. See, for example, the [Red-Letter Christian movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-Letter_Christian). ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/11 "2009-05-04T17:12:50Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > You can’t say “As a Christian what Jesus says isn’t really what I have to do.” No? Actually, you can. That’s my point. You can be a serial killer that rapes and dismembers children. It doesn’t matter. As long as you believe in Christ’s crucifixion as your salvation, you’re a 100% true Christian and you are redeemed. That’s all there is to it. (Some other folks might also get nitpicky say that the serial killer also has to confess and “atone” for his sins. Ok, but he can do that a few minutes before he’s executed via lethal injection or electric chair.) > [@](#): > > If that is the case, there really isn’t a religion left, is there? I realize that there’s a tendency to read too much into Christianity … a tendency to inject extra doctrine (do this, do that, turn the other cheek, etc) into Christianity that really isn’t there. However, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not relevant to Christianity. Jesus did not create Christianity. The Apostle Paul and other followers created Christianity. Jesus’ ministry (while he was alive) is not Christianity. It’s his crucifixion/death that’s the basis of Christianity. I guess the typical Church sermon adds to the confusion by conflating the two concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/12 "2009-05-04T17:21:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You misspelled Calvinism and got the date wrong. \*( **BoD** stands on chair, applauding and whooping wildly) (noticing absolute silence, **BoD** sits back down)\* ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/13 "2009-05-04T17:22:43Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Did the Roman emperor Constantine, when he initially allowed Christianity to continue, really put this particular tenet into practical use? Can any government, run a military and defend it’s borders, and follow this particular rule to the letter? I don’t think many Christians claim that Christianity’s tenets make for a good governing philosophy. Christianity is more about personal salvation, rather than ruling a country. > [@Ruminator](#): > > I don’t think they misinterpret their own religion. Christianity believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins and believing in that alone will be salvation. That’s it. If that’s what they believe, then they are interpreting Christianity correctly. Memorizing or following other parables such as “_turn the other cheek_” are irrelevant to Christianity. You need to learn more about Christian theology. You are on the faith side of the [faith vs works](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide), but many other Christians (myself included) are on the works side. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/14 "2009-05-04T17:24:24Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > Now, I recognize that this isn’t an exhaustive list of Jesus’s teachings and that there is plenty of less cumbaya-ish stuff in there, but clearly Christians have a pretty strong imperative to threat everyone decently and without judgment. I’ll come back and respond to the thread at greater length later, but for now I just want to say that this is the best typo I’ve ever seen, assuming that it is actually a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/15 "2009-05-04T17:31:15Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > Actually, you can. That’s my point. > > You can be a serial killer that rapes and dismembers children. It doesn’t matter. As long as you believe in Christ’s crucifixion as your salvation, you’re a 100% true Christian and you are redeemed. That’s all there is to it. > > (Some other folks might also get nitpicky say that the serial killer also has to confess and “atone” for his sins. Ok, but he can do that a few minutes before he’s executed via lethal injection or electric chair.) I’m not a Christian, but I’m pretty sure there’s a difference between saying “I’m sorry” and meaning it. You haven’t really repented if you’d just go out and do it all over again if you had the chance and I would think Jesus can tell when somebody is blowing smoke up his ass. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/16 "2009-05-04T17:32:44Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > Actually, you can. That’s my point. > > You can be a serial killer that rapes and dismembers children. It doesn’t matter. As long as you believe in Christ’s crucifixion as your salvation, you’re a 100% true Christian and you are redeemed. That’s all there is to it. > > (Some other folks might also get nitpicky say that the serial killer also has to confess and “atone” for his sins. Ok, but he can do that a few minutes before he’s executed via lethal injection or electric chair.) > > I realize that there’s a tendency to read too much into Christianity … a tendency to inject extra doctrine (do this, do that, turn the other cheek, etc) into Christianity that really isn’t there. > > However, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not relevant to Christianity. > > Jesus did not create Christianity. The Apostle Paul and other followers created Christianity. > > Jesus’ ministry (while he was alive) is not Christianity. It’s his crucifixion/death that’s the basis of Christianity. > > I guess the typical Church sermon adds to the confusion by conflating the two concepts. That is one interpretation of Christianity, among many. Even so, you still have to get the rules from somewhere that tell the believer that they have indeed sinned so that they know of the need to repent and seek forgiveness. So where do those rules come from if not the teachings of Jesus? The 10 commandments, Deuteronomy, the pslams, the letters of Paul, or something else? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/17 "2009-05-04T17:34:22Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I’ll come back and respond to the thread at greater length later, but for now I just want to say that this is the best typo I’ve ever seen, assuming that it is actually a typo. It is indeed a typo. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/18 "2009-05-04T17:38:33Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Interesting. If this is the case, then maybe “christianity” as it’s being practiced now, needs a complete overhaul. Maybe it’s time to “go back to basics”. A dear friend of mine who is a writer for a major Christian organization, hypothesizes that what is practiced now isn’t Christianity, but _Churchianity_. While all the denominations believe in the same core principles, the things which are supposed to be paramount, in practice the emphasis placed upon those principles pales in comparison to that which is put on all the peripheral (and often political) stuff. Simply believing in Christ and accepting his redemption becomes less important than being a Presbyterian/Episcopalian/Assembly of God-ian/Church of Christ-ian/Baptist/Methodist and holding the line on the churchy stuff that each organization puts forth. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/19 "2009-05-04T17:46:44Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > A dear friend of mine who is a writer for a major Christian organization, hypothesizes that what is practiced now isn’t Christianity, but _Churchianity_. While all the denominations believe in the same core principles, the things which are supposed to be paramount, in practice the emphasis placed upon those principles pales in comparison to that which is put on all the peripheral (and often political) stuff. Simply believing in Christ and accepting his redemption becomes less important than being a Presbyterian/Episcopalian/Assembly of God-ian/Church of Christ-ian/Baptist/Methodist and holding the line on the churchy stuff that each organization puts forth. The only thing I really disagree with here is your use of the word “now,” as if this is something recent. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296/20 "2009-05-04T17:47:23Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You need to learn more about Christian theology. You are on the faith side of the [faith vs works](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide), but many other Christians (myself included) are on the works side. I grew up Catholic (was an altar boy) and went to Sunday school so I’m aware of the “works” part of the equation. I revert to “faith” based on historians and their analysis of the birth of Christianity… especially through the writings of Apostle Paul. Don’t have to follow laws such as circumcision, etc. If there is any “lowest common denominator” to all the various splinters of Christian theology… it’s the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. All the other ideological splits such as “faith vs works” or “priests mediators vs Bible self-study” can’t be central tenets of Christianity by virtue of them not being agreed upon. Adding the various disagreements of beliefs between any **hyphenated** -Christians such as Protestant-Christians vs Catholic-Christians just muddies up the conversation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-u-s-religious-righters-managed-to-miss-the-whole-point-of-their-religion/495296.md?page=2)