# How ugly will Bush's last few months in office be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624 "2008-07-24T15:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/21 "2008-07-27T01:23:14Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] That said, though, I thought that retiring presidents no longer got Secret Service protection. Am I misremembering? [/QUOTE] All who were president before 1997 are grandfathered in. They still get lifetime protection. Bush and succeeding presidents - barring another change in the law - will only get it for ten years. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/22 "2008-07-27T01:27:57Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] All who were president before 1997 are grandfathered in. They still get lifetime protection. Bush and succeeding presidents - barring another change in the law - will only get it for ten years. [/QUOTE] Okay. My mistake. All thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/23 "2008-07-27T02:22:47Z")
I can’t find it at the moment, but I thought Bush was moving to have administrations implement/establish new regs now, so that it will be harder for an incoming president to reverse them? Does this ring any bells? I’ll keep searching–probably find out it was completely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/24 "2008-07-29T02:03:36Z")
[QUOTE=Declan] Remove all the letter O’s from whitehouse computers, nobody would have thought that Idea up would they have. [/QUOTE] Nobody could have possibly anticipated O’s being remove from the keyboards. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/25 "2008-07-29T21:49:12Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] - As many controversial Presidential EOs that Obama must lift (landmines, really). [/QUOTE] The White House has issued a directive to executive branch agencies, saaying that, except on an emergency basis, no rulemaking proceedings should begin after July 1, 2008, and no final rules should be promligated after November 1, 2008. So, given that, I think a bunch of late, controversial, executive orders is unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/26 "2008-07-29T22:01:45Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’m sure even W understands he would have zero public support for a full-on war. The most he could do on his own authority would be an airstrike, which would likely stir up something too hot to handle, which his successor would have to deal with. It would be the equivalent of Saddam Hussein setting fire to the Kuwaiti oil wells before pulling out his troops, just from pure spite. [/QUOTE] While I think the chances of a war with Iran, even including an air strike are about nil at this point (which is pretty much the position I’ve taken for the last year or so as the level of fretation and handwringerage over this has finally started to drop), I disagree with your analogy. Saddam lighting fire to the Kuwaiti oil wells was pure spite. There was no possibility of Kuwait using their oil wells as a potential weapon in the future either against Iraq or against whatever Iraqi allies there may have been. The same is not true of Iran or Iran’s nuclear program. IF Bush did indeed order a strike against the Iranian nuclear program it wouldn’t be ‘just from pure spite’ but because those targets are actually militarily and strategically significant to the US. Unlike Saddam who burned those wells just because he couldn’t have them and didn’t want anyone else to play with them either…which is pretty much the definition of ‘pure spite’. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/27 "2008-07-29T23:20:14Z")
Which would be worse, from a moral point of view? 1. If the president issues a hugh blanket pardon to protect a basket of officials and military people, or 2. No issue such a pardon and let them swing in the wind? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/28 "2008-07-30T01:09:36Z")
It’s a dilemma for Bush either way. He lets his loyalists be exposed for doing no more than his bidding, or else he implies (by the act of pardoning them) that they were breaking the law. The same is true if he includes himself. More likely, he’ll count on a “Let’s move on” mentality to keep them/him from being prosecuted in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/29 "2008-07-30T01:13:11Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Which would be worse, from a moral point of view? 1. If the president issues a hugh blanket pardon to protect a basket of officials and military people, or 2. No issue such a pardon and let them swing in the wind? [/QUOTE] From a moral point of view, 1. They, along with Bush, are scum and deserve investigations and prosecutions, not pardons. Not that I believe for a moment that Bush has any moral code at all. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/30 "2008-07-30T01:29:28Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] More likely, he’ll count on a “Let’s move on” mentality to keep them/him from being prosecuted in the first place. [/QUOTE] No, first it will be a “Let’s wait 'till all the facts are in,” then, when all the facts are in, it will be a “That’s old news,” such as with the recent report that Goodling et al broke the law by politicizing career Justice Department hirings. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/31 "2008-07-30T14:28:25Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Which would be worse, from a moral point of view? 1. If the president issues a hugh blanket pardon to protect a basket of officials and military people [/QUOTE] Can the President issue blanket pre-emptive pardons, or can he only pardon individuals one at a time after they’ve been convicted? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/32 "2008-07-30T14:43:19Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] Can the President issue blanket pre-emptive pardons, or can he only pardon individuals one at a time after they’ve been convicted? [/QUOTE] Ford gave Nixon a blanket pre-emptive pardon; Nixon had not even been indicted at the time. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/33 "2008-07-31T04:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Ford gave Nixon a blanket pre-emptive pardon; Nixon had not even been indicted at the time. [/QUOTE] On a related note, can pardons be issued secretly ? I’m imagining a scenario where Bush, on his last day in office, signs pardons for everyone (including himself) who might be in legal jeopardy, but doesn’t tell anyone and just files them away. The relevant pardon would be produced in the event of actual conviction. Anything to prevent this ? Do pardons have to be listed in some official publication, for example ? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/34 "2008-07-31T04:44:08Z")
I know of no historical example of it, but there’s nothing to keep a pardon from being kept secret until needed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bush does so, for himself or for others. The President has broad pardon powers and could even, I believe, pardon himself. It would be a bad thing to do and would rightly be condemned by history, but there’s nothing in the Constitution to prohibit it (we’ve already debated this at some length in other threads). I know of no legal requirement that a pardon be listed in the _Federal Register_ or any other official publication. I tend to think Bush will run out the clock, but I wouldn’t put it past him to do (or try to do) some funny business between the election (esp. if Obama wins) and Inauguration Day. If it gets ugly, it could get _very_ ugly, incl. an attack against Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/35 "2008-07-31T12:37:55Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I wonder if Bush really is counting down his time remaining in office at this point…and looking forward to being off the hot seat all the time. If I were him (well, besides being smarter and more handsome I’d be the first Hispanic President!) I would be looking at things like someone coming up for retirement looks at counting down the last days until they are free to do something else. Maybe setting up book deals so he can tell it his way (with a ghost writer of course), speaking tours (ok, maybe not) and other such ex-Presidential activities. I think I’d give a hearty FUCK YOU! to the American people and retire to my ranch to chase the wife around, swill some homebrew, ride my horses and generally spend all of my money on doing fun things that wouldn’t take me to Europe where I might have a bag thrown over my head to wake up in a cold and damp French prison cell being gently asked questions for my up and coming war crimes trial… -XT [/QUOTE] Bush will sell the ranch & move to a gated community in the Metroplex. One with a golf course. [He doesn’t ride](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563773/George-Bush-the-Texan-is-%27scared-of-horses%27.html). > [@](#): > > Vicente Fox, the former president of Mexico, derided his political friend as a “windshield cowboy” – a cowboy who prefers to drive – and “the cockiest guy I have ever met in my life”. > > He recalled a meeting in Mexico shortly after both men had been elected when Mr Fox offered Mr Bush a ride on a “big palomino” horse. Mr Fox, who left office in December, recalled Mr Bush “backing away” from the animal. > > ''A horse lover can always tell when others don’t share our passion," he said, according to the Washington Post. Bush delivered that FUCK YOU to us all back in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2008, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/36 "2008-07-31T13:12:39Z")
> [@Vicente Fox](#): > > ''A horse lover can always tell when others don’t share our passion," he said, according to the Washington Post. :mad: Dammit, you **can’t** always tell! Sometimes a horse says “no” but she means “yes”! It’s the truth! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624/37 "2008-07-31T14:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] :mad: Dammit, you **can’t** always tell! Sometimes a horse says “no” but she means “yes”! It’s the truth! [/QUOTE] Heh – that’s what [Ben](http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2678043110000735275ecpzAe) said the last time he dumped me. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ugly-will-bushs-last-few-months-in-office-be/457624.md?page=1)