# How unjust was the Casey Anthony verdict?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055 "2011-07-06T16:37:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/1 "2011-07-06T16:37:39Z")
Various acquaintances of mine have been expressing their outrage to me. What do you think?
–It was as bad as the last episode of the Sopranos: I want my money back.
–A travesty—we were short-changed on jury deliberation/speculation/psycho-profiling days.
–At least the judge could’ve lectured her a little and made her cry more.
–What happened to good old-fashioned evil laughter after the verdict? She just wasn’t believable.
–They’d better have a good opener when next season starts, or I am going back to Investigation Discovery.
–Other (name your own dissatisfaction):
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### Author:  [@markm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markm)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/2 "2011-07-06T16:53:59Z")
It was just. The jury did not find her innocent, they found her not guilty because the prosecution had not presented a good enough case to find her guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. While this might not be pleasing or comforting, it was just since it follows what the justice system prescribes as the outcome in such a situation.
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### Author:  [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/3 "2011-07-06T16:58:15Z")
Seriously, another Casey Anthony thread? You could have at least made it a poll to give it some semblance of a useful purpose.
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### Author:  [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/4 "2011-07-06T17:02:54Z")
It was just. It showed the system worked. Would you rather have the occasional guilty person free or the occasional innocent person on death row?
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/5 "2011-07-06T17:02:57Z")
> [@markm](#):
>
> It was just. The jury did not find her innocent, they found her not guilty because the prosecution had not presented a good enough case to find her guilty \*\*beyond a shadow of a doubt. \*\* While this might not be pleasing or comforting, it was just since it follows what the justice system prescribes as the outcome in such a situation.
Bolding mine. This drives me crazy. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” is not the same as “beyond the shadow of a doubt.”
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### Author:  [@markm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markm)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/6 "2011-07-06T17:27:27Z")
I bow to your pedantic superiority as I made an off-the-cuff post to a thread in between bites of my lunch. I shall endeavour to not let it happen again.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/7 "2011-07-06T17:37:05Z")
Wow. I didn’t realize I came across as that much of a jerk. My apologies.
Of course, it was just an off-the-cuff post in between bites of my breakfast, so perhaps you shouldn’t take it so hard…
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### Author:  [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/8 "2011-07-06T17:38:04Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#):
>
> It was just. It showed the system worked. Would you rather have the occasional guilty person free or the occasional innocent person on death row?
My sentiment exactly.
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### Author:  [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/9 "2011-07-06T17:55:57Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#):
>
> It was just. It showed the system worked. Would you rather have the occasional guilty person free or the occasional innocent person on death row?
Why can’t it be both, like the late Earl Warren?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/10 "2011-07-06T17:57:17Z")
Not unjust at all.
A jury of her peers (including 7 women) found Casey not guilty.
I respect the jury’s decision.
Casey was declared indigent. Her lawyers worked pro bono. There was a limited budget from Florida to pay witnesses travel expense, get forensic tests done etc.
Casey didn’t buy her way out of trouble like OJ’s multiple million dollar defense.
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### Author:  [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/11 "2011-07-06T18:02:33Z")
It was just. The state had nothing and overreached badly. That may not be emotionally satisfying to those who have worked themselves into a lynch-mob frenzy, but it IS the truth as far as we could determine it.
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### Author:  [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/12 "2011-07-06T18:04:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Not unjust at all.
>
> A jury of her peers (including 7 women) found Casey not guilty.
>
> I respect the jury’s decision.
Not apropos of this case - because frankly I don’t want to hash out the details - but I don’t understand this mindset.
I _acknowledge_ the jury’s decision, I _abide_ by the jury’s decision, and I am strongly - fervently, even - in favor of a society that _abides_ by the jury’s decision.
However (again without reference to this particular case), I reject the notion that a jury’s decision is, by definition, _correct_ or _just_ just because it was their decision. This makes no sense. If a jury rules that guilt has not been established beyond a reasonable doubt, this means that the accused goes free. Fine. It does not mean the jury necessarily made the _right_ call, nor that their decision should be above critique.
In this particular case, I do _not_ respect the jury’s decision. I do not agree that there is reasonable doubt - _unreasonable_ doubt, sure, but not reasonable - and I think the jury was wrong. I ALSO think (obviously) that, having been the beneficiary of this wrong choice by an easily distracted jury, Casey Anthony should go free as a bird. But this case is not proof that “the system works” - it’s proof that the system is worth preserving even when it produces the wrong outcome. These are two different things.
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### Author:  [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/13 "2011-07-06T18:04:59Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#):
>
> It was just. The state had nothing and overreached badly. That may not be emotionally satisfying to those who have worked themselves into a lynch-mob frenzy, but it IS the truth as far as we could determine it.
All true, but like nearly everyone else, I am about 99.9% sure she had something to do with the death of her daughter.
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### Author:  [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/14 "2011-07-06T18:07:26Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#):
>
> Not apropos of this case - because frankly I don’t want to hash out the details - but I don’t understand this mindset.
>
> I _acknowledge_ the jury’s decision, I _abide_ by the jury’s decision, and I am strongly - fervently, even - in favor of a society that _abides_ by the jury’s decision.
>
> However (again without reference to this particular case), I reject the notion that a jury’s decision is, by definition, _correct_ or _just_ just because it was their decision. This makes no sense. If a jury rules that guilt has not been established beyond a reasonable doubt, this means that the accused goes free. Fine. It does not mean the jury necessarily made the _right_ call, nor that their decision should be above critique.
>
> In this particular case, I do _not_ respect the jury’s decision. I do not agree that there is reasonable doubt - _unreasonable_ doubt, sure, but not reasonable - and I think the jury was wrong. I ALSO think (obviously) that, having been the beneficiary of this wrong choice by an easily distracted jury, Casey Anthony should go free as a bird. But this case is not proof that “the system works” - it’s proof that the system is worth preserving even when it produces the wrong outcome. These are two different things.
It produced exactly the right outcome. The government could not prove she committed premeditated murder. So she is not guilty. If they had gone for a lesser charge, she might have been found guilty.
What’s tough for me to accept is that her lying actually benefited her defense. If they had found the body sooner, perhaps there would have been DNA evidence linking Casey to the deceased.
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/15 "2011-07-06T18:17:57Z")
saying “it’s just” or “it’s not just” doesn’t have any meaning. No one has any basis for determining whether the verdict comports with objective reality, so all we have is the verdict–there’s nothing to compare it to. But it’s nice that these acquaintances of yours so readily show you why it’s good they are only acquaintances.
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### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/16 "2011-07-06T18:21:12Z")
The unfortunate victim of the outcome of this trial is America’s confidence in its judicial system.
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### Author:  [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/17 "2011-07-06T18:24:11Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#):
>
> The government could not prove she committed premeditated murder.
I don’t agree with this.
The jury obviously does.
I think the jury made the wrong decision (specifically, I think they misunderstood or misapplied the “reasonable doubt” standard).
I acknowledge that reasonable people can disagree about this; what I object to is the enshrinement of a jury verdict as, de facto, correct and above criticism.
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/18 "2011-07-06T18:26:55Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#):
>
> Not apropos of this case - because frankly I don’t want to hash out the details - but I don’t understand this mindset.
>
> I _acknowledge_ the jury’s decision, I _abide_ by the jury’s decision, and I am strongly - fervently, even - in favor of a society that _abides_ by the jury’s decision.
>
> However (again without reference to this particular case), I reject the notion that a jury’s decision is, by definition, _correct_ or _just_ just because it was their decision. This makes no sense. If a jury rules that guilt has not been established beyond a reasonable doubt, this means that the accused goes free. Fine. It does not mean the jury necessarily made the _right_ call, nor that their decision should be above critique.
>
> In this particular case, I do _not_ respect the jury’s decision. I do not agree that there is reasonable doubt - _unreasonable_ doubt, sure, but not reasonable - and I think the jury was wrong. I ALSO think (obviously) that, having been the beneficiary of this wrong choice by an easily distracted jury, Casey Anthony should go free as a bird. But this case is not proof that “the system works” - it’s proof that the system is worth preserving even when it produces the wrong outcome. These are two different things.
There is no way to determine whether CA had anything to do with the death of her child. It’s not like we are trying to determine the temperature of a glass of water and can just stick a thermometer in it. To determine objectively whether CA killed her child (and, if so, whether it was first-degree murder or not) we would have had to somehow ride alongside in CA’s head during the period iin question, which is not currently possible.
Therefore, all you are doing is comparing your opinion of what happened to the verdict. But, our society has determined that we will believe the jury–we didn’t decide that you personally get to decide someone’s guilt or innocence. So, you are free to have your own opinion on the matter, but it amounts only to the proverbial hill of beans. Also, some of us are perfectly wiling to simply accept our society’s method for determining the truth and we don’t form our own opinions on the matter at all.
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### Author:  [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/19 "2011-07-06T18:27:23Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#):
>
> The unfortunate victim of the outcome of this trial is America’s confidence in its judicial system.
It proved me to the system actually works.
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### Author:  [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-unjust-was-the-casey-anthony-verdict/588055/20 "2011-07-06T18:28:23Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#):
>
> I don’t agree with this.
>
> The jury obviously does.
>
> I think the jury made the wrong decision (specifically, I think they misunderstood or misapplied the “reasonable doubt” standard).
>
> I acknowledge that reasonable people can disagree about this; what I object to is the enshrinement of a jury verdict as, de facto, correct and above criticism.
Just because we all think she did it, and hell she probably did, isn’t proof.
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