# How useful are at-home DNA tests? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 7, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258 "2017-10-07T20:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/41 "2017-10-10T01:26:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On the other hand, the Cohens have stayed true enough, for thousands of years, that there’s still a recognizable Y haplotype associated with the line. Though that could still allow for cuckolding by close male relatives, such as a father or brother. There is a mitzvah being violated there. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/42 "2017-10-10T03:09:20Z")
Some of the earliest genetics researchers decided that NPE’s (non-paternal events, the P.C. word for cuckolding) are much less common than they’d guessed. Ancient but rare surnames produced consistently identical Y-haplogroups. (But are illicit liaisons much more common in the upper classes?) Of course there are cases where DNA discovers NPEs. Richard III has a different Y-Haplogroup from the Beaufort family. (I think the consensus guess now is that Richard’s own mother, Lady Cecily, was sharing her charms with a Spaniard!) Living members of the Rurikid family — almost unique since it was founded in the 9th century but, despite losing Russia after the death of Ivan the Terrible, has several lines of living agnates — has at least two distinct haplogroups. This can be traced to a specific fork but was likely not a result of cuckolding. There was considerable incentive for a rising prince to fake a pedigree and thereby “become” a Rurikid. Online you can now find several very detailed clading diagrams for the Y-chromosome’s R-haplogroup. [At least one gives surname information.](http://haplogroup-r.org/tree/R.html) Note for example that R1b-ZS4585 is dated to (VERY roughly) 1450 AD but spawned 2 or 3 different surname lines. AFAIK these NPEs have not been connected to history. AFAIK, the present King of Spain has never submitted to a DNA test. Genealogical experts are almost certain his Y-haplogroup is not that of the Bourbon dynasty. Since adultery with a Queen may be a criminal offense, it may be against Board rules to offer further details. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/43 "2017-10-10T03:11:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > There is a mitzvah being violated there. :dubious: Maybe the other way around? Could this be accounted for by the old tradition of a man marrying his brother’s widow? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/44 "2017-10-10T07:11:54Z")
The best estimate now is that about 1 or 2 percent of babies were fathered by someone other than the person they think of as their fathers: > **[New DNA Studies Debunk Misconceptions About Paternal Relationships | KQED](https://www.kqed.org/science/11450/new-dna-studies-debunk-misconceptions-about-paternal-relationships)** > > Some men are unknowingly raising kids that are not biologically related to them, but until recently, the numbers were uncertain. Now that DNA testing is becoming cheaper and easier, better data has become available. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/45 "2017-10-10T12:40:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > AFAIK, the present King of Spain has never submitted to a DNA test. Genealogical experts are almost certain his Y-haplogroup is not that of the Bourbon dynasty. Since adultery with a Queen may be a criminal offense, it may be against Board rules to offer further details. Please tell me that you’re making a joke. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/46 "2017-10-10T17:11:07Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Please tell me that you’re making a joke. IANAL and do not plan to review the Lèse-majesté laws of all Doper countries. But I will divulge that in one hypothesis the present King of Spain inherited his Y-chromosome from an American dentist. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/47 "2017-10-10T18:34:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > IANAL and do not plan to review the Lèse-majesté laws of all Doper countries. > But I will divulge that in one hypothesis the present King of Spain inherited his Y-chromosome from an American dentist. FFS, It’s not against the rules to discuss the details of a past crime. There is a gigantic thread on the Vegas shooter for example. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/48 "2017-10-10T20:08:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Since adultery with a Queen may be a criminal offense Not, I suspect, in modern times. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/49 "2017-10-10T20:35:18Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I would be very surprised if any white southerner didn’t have some African blood — although in other cases, North African ( Berber etc… ) is not the same as Sub-Saharan ancestry; just as one would expect every European to have some Jewish ancestry. Not me. I had my testing done through 23andMe and the one thing I learned is that I’m really really white. A combination of English French and German with trace amounts - less than 1/2 of one percent - of Spanish and Finnish. Absolutely no trace of anything else. It put a lot of family speculation to rest once and for all. and my Neanderthal is 3.8%. I’ve never really explored using the results for genealogy. I was heavily into it at one point but I kind of fell back out although I might pick it up again. My family tree on my fathers side is VERY well documented, there is a very active genealogy club that has compiled it into ( last time I checked ) about a half dozen phone book sized volumes, so there wasn’t much research to be done – some of the things found in those volumes were interesting - especially the collapses where cousins married. And the hints of stories I may never know - once I was thumbing through the books and saw a family in 1740 where 5 children had the same death date. The club generally doesn’t give out copies of these books but they - mostly elderly Southerners- were so thrilled to have a young urban club member that they slipped me a full set. And one of the pastimes of the club has been to try to find the connection to an infamous criminal with our not very common last name - but despite much effort no one has ever been able to link him in. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/50 "2017-10-10T21:08:16Z")
Goint back to the [ancestry.com](http://ancestry.com) commercials, my wife had an experience which was very close to one of them. She has a very detailed record of her paternal lineage back many generations to a village in Germany. The lineage was very well researched and documented (by a distant relative back in the 80’s), and matches with other family trees we have found on [ancestry.com](http://ancestry.com). Her name is a Anglicized variant of her great^6 grandfather who emigrated to Pennsylvania in 1715. She has always assumed a German heritage based on this. We even visited the village in Germany where her ancestor was from. Then she took the ancestry DNA test. Lo and behold, her genetic makeup is 95% Great Britain and Ireland. The German has been diluted beyond detection. Good thing she didn’t buy a dirndl… My results also had a surprise. I am half Chinese, half (as my mother used to say) white trash. I expected to see a clean 50% east Asian; what I got was 39% east Asian, 13% central Asian (Afghanistan and the other -stans). These numbers are so close to 1/8 and 3/8 that I am strongly suspecting a great-grandparent from central Asia. Checking with my cousins for any family lore. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/51 "2017-10-14T22:24:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The best bit, though? Some white supremacists have taken these tests only to find African ancestry. Yep. [Here is one example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLoel5EKT34). White supremacist Craig Cobb, who is buying up property in as remote North Dakota town (population 16) to start a whites-only town, did a DNA ancestry test on a TV show. The results: 14% African ancestry. He rejects the results as ‘statistical noise’. His fellow extremists now reject him; he’s no longer white enough to be their leader. It’s pretty well split their movement in town. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/52 "2017-10-14T22:42:21Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Yep. [Here is one example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLoel5EKT34). > White supremacist Craig Cobb, who is buying up property in as remote North Dakota town (population 16) to start a whites-only town, did a DNA ancestry test on a TV show. The results: 14% African ancestry. He rejects the results as ‘statistical noise’. His fellow extremists now reject him; he’s no longer white enough to be their leader. It’s pretty well split their movement in town. With a nose like that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/53 "2017-10-15T03:37:34Z")
Even the Nazis thought the American “one drop” rule was crazy. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/54 "2017-10-15T12:02:16Z")
I’ve always assumed these tests are only as good as the underlying database - and I rather resent having to pay them to get hold of my data to make their database a more marketable product. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/55 "2017-10-15T12:07:04Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > I’ve always assumed these tests are only as good as the underlying database - and I rather resent having to pay them to get hold of my data to make their database a more marketable product. In that case, what do you suggest as their business model? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/56 "2017-10-15T17:29:30Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > In that case, what do you suggest as their business model? Do they have to have a viable business model? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/57 "2017-10-15T18:15:50Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Do they have to have a viable business model? :dubious: I don’t understand your point. **PatrickLondon** seems to think that he should get their services for free or maybe they should be paying him. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/58 "2017-10-16T14:58:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I don’t understand your point. **PatrickLondon** seems to think that he should get their services for free or maybe they should be paying him. No, he’s saying that he doesn’t want to give them free data. He’s not saying they have to exist at all. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/59 "2017-10-17T03:46:08Z")
It all comes down to your interest in genealogy and family history, plus at least a basic understanding of genetics. I am fascinated, and I studied genetics in college. I’ve followed numerous family lines back a long way, but my surname line currently ends with my great great grandfather, who was an orphan. He may have had a sibling, and it looks like the only way we might ever verify his parentage is if descendants of that sibling are matched to us. There was a possibility that we were part of a well-documented line who were in the right place at the right time, but genetic testing showed no relation. My great great grandfather had eight children, and through my genealogy research, I’ve managed to contact descendants of each of them. I’ve had a lot of fun doing that. Also, genealogy is a hobby that my religious nut father and I can share. P.S. Genetic testing makes it look like gggrandfather or his parents were from Ireland, which is another clue. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258/60 "2017-10-18T02:55:36Z")
I’m a white southerner with no African ancestry, but I’m a southern Jew, 96% Ashkenazi according to 23 and Me (3% East Asian of various sorts, which I assume is the Golden Horde, 1% “other South European”). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-useful-are-at-home-dna-tests/798258.md?page=4)