# How valuable is human life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994 "2002-10-05T20:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/21 "2002-10-06T18:38:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*I’m with robert on this one: If I was to go around casually killing other humans for food or clothing, it invites other humans to do the same to me. Since beef and cotton are plentiful, there isn’t any need for me for increase the societal chaos level by going around hunting people. In this instance, at least, morality and logic are in lockstep. > > Now, if I was on a plane that crashed in the Andes… \*\* Remind me not to book any flights on the same airline that you use 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/22 "2002-10-06T18:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Which of course reminds me of the Kids in the Hall skit: > > This guy: How much do you think my head would be worth if it were made of veal? > > That guy: Oh, I don’t know, maybe 3 bucks? > > This guy: Hmmm. I don’t think I’m selling. > Back to the OP…Do any animals, other then humans, mourn the loss of their pack-mates? I am going to take a stab and say that dogs/wolfs/etc do, but that is based on hearsay. Do any animals (other then humans) actually mourn? \*\* Don’t primates, like monkeys, gorillas, chimps, and so on mourn the loss of another? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/23 "2002-10-06T18:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*Pets miss their owners when they’re gone. Also, are we morally superior to plants? Why are we better than animals but not plants? Is it because plants are not cuddly? \*\* Huh? Who said we aren’t superior to plants? ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/24 "2002-10-06T20:38:47Z")
With the whole humans vs. animals thing, I don’t think it is possible to say “Humans are better than animals” or “Animals are better than humans.” It depends on the individual creature. For an example, I’m going to create a scenario: Say I am on a sinking ship. I can only save one creature, and the other one will definately die. If the two other creatures are a terrible human and a cat, I am going to save the kitten, whereas others might save the human just cause he’s human. If the two are a nice human and a mean, nasty cat, I am going to save the human. Now, say that both are equally nice/mean. I would save whichever one I thought I had the best chance of saving. I hate to say it, but I would probably go for the human simply because it is human nature to save our own kind. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/25 "2002-10-06T21:54:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\* > Remind me not to book any flights on the same airline that you use 😃 \*\* Trust me, I’m the last person you want to be stuck in a lifeboat with. (I _will_ be the last person you are stuck in a lifeboat with, if you get my meaning.) [www.mrlizard.com](http://www.mrlizard.com) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/26 "2002-10-06T22:26:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monica \* > Say I am on a sinking ship. I can only save one creature, and the other one will definately die. > If the two other creatures are a terrible human and a cat, I am going to save the kitten, whereas others might save the human just cause he’s human. > \*\* Remind me to start killing all the cats and dogs if my boat starts sinking. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/27 "2002-10-07T02:54:28Z")
1. No 2. No 3. Killing? Yes. eating? No. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/28 "2002-10-07T03:25:36Z")
Was alluded to earlier. My life is as valuable as the degree of difficulty you have in taking it away from me. The world in retrospect might think that Einstein was worth more over all but to me, mine is worth the most because I make it that way. You think not, try and take it. I may chose to die for you… But I’ll really try HARD not to die because of you. IMO, willingness to die is not to be lauded. Willingness to live is the real measure. :::::::Power and the certainty of rightfulness are an appalling combination.:::::: ---
**Author:** ![Rabid\_Lamb\_of\_God](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rabid\_Lamb\_of\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Lamb_of_God)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/29 "2002-10-07T04:24:38Z")
Isn’t it…anthropocentric…to postulate the mere existence of such a thing as “value” outside of ourselves? Not that there isn’t, but, IMO, we have no way of knowing. What we do know, though, is that we as humans assign value to things in our minds, and until someone proves to me that a) the universe is one gigantic mind or b) animals understand the concept of value, I will have to conclude that our unique value exists, umm, uniquely in our minds, as it SHOULD…lest we usher in the Millennium of Boredom, Low Self-Esteem, and Cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/30 "2002-10-07T04:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monica \* > \*\*With the whole humans vs. animals thing, I don’t think it is possible to say “Humans are better than animals” or “Animals are better than humans.” It depends on the individual creature. For an example, I’m going to create a scenario: > Say I am on a sinking ship. I can only save one creature, and the other one will definately die. > If the two other creatures are a terrible human and a cat, I am going to save the kitten, whereas others might save the human just cause he’s human. > If the two are a nice human and a mean, nasty cat, I am going to save the human. > Now, say that both are equally nice/mean. I would save whichever one I thought I had the best chance of saving. I hate to say it, but I would probably go for the human simply because it is human nature to save our own kind. \*\* You’d _hate_ to say that you’d save the human? What is this world comming to? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/31 "2002-10-07T04:45:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\* > > Trust me, I’m the last person you want to be stuck in a lifeboat with. (I _will_ be the last person you are stuck in a lifeboat with, if you get my meaning.) \*\* If I do get your meaning, wouldn’t you be in the lifeboat alone? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/32 "2002-10-07T04:52:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\* > > Trust me, I’m the last person you want to be stuck in a lifeboat with. (I _will_ be the last person you are stuck in a lifeboat with, if you get my meaning.) \*\* If I do get your meaning, wouldn’t you be in the lifeboat alone? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/33 "2002-10-07T06:53:59Z")
—I don’t believe human life can be measured in dollars, although some people do it anyway.— I think the point of those who do need to find a way to put that value in dollars is that everyone does it, at least implicitly. When we make policy choices in the world, we do need some way to compare the cost of human life to the cost of, say, driving less. It is pretty certain that if we all drove much less, many less people would die than do now. When we decide what the right level of safety precaution is, we need some guide as to how much. If we claim that human life is infinately valuable, compared to other things (that can certainly be measured in dollar amounts), then we are left with the conclusion that any finite amount of risk avoidance or safety precaution is unacceptably low. But almost no one acts as if this were the case, be it their own life or the lives of others. Dollar amounts are certainly open to question, but the reality of there being SOME average dollar amount is much less questionable. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/34 "2002-10-07T15:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and four related questions for you: > > 1. If you don’t believe that humans have any sort of spiritual superiority over the other forms of life including plants, or some sort of special purpose in this world, then are our lives any more valuable than that of plants? > 2. If you’re an atheist, or belong to a religion that doesn’t see humans as being anything special, just another part of nature, then do you see human life as being more valuable than plants? And if so, why? > 3. And if the value of human life is the same as that of cotton, trees, and so on, then, if you eat vegetables, and don’t mind wearing clothing made from plant bodies, then would you have any objections to killing people for food and clothing, other than the “ick” factor? I can kill another living thing, without assigning an absolute value to its life in regards to my own. I kill plants and animals because of the benefit to me (yummy food and clothes), but not because I think it’s their right and proper place to be subjugated by the human race. I think you’re assuming some sort of ladder of power and right that doesn’t necessarily have to be there. I don’t think humans are more valuable than plants, but that doesn’t mean that I’d eat a person as readily as an apple, and that has nothing to do with “ick” factor. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/35 "2002-10-07T18:47:32Z")
msmith’s formula and apos’ comments reminded me of an idea for a website I had a long time ago. I wanted to write an algorithm that would allow for a realtime assessment of the cost of human life. People could send in things like the award in a wrongful death lawsuit or how much a car company declined to pay for a feature that would have saved lives and the site would automatically update so you could watch the monetary value of human life actually fall before your very eyes. The point being that, like Apos said, everyone thinks its wrong to put money before life but eveybody does it anyway. Maybe if people were a little more aware of it they would think twice before doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/36 "2002-10-07T19:00:49Z")
—Maybe if people were a little more aware of it they would think twice before doing it.— I don’t think it’s wrong to do it, at all. But I definately think it’s wrong to do it without thinking hard about the issue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/37 "2002-10-08T05:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > \*\* > > I can kill another living thing, without assigning an absolute value to its life in regards to my own. I kill plants and animals because of the benefit to me (yummy food and clothes), but not because I think it’s their right and proper place to be subjugated by the human race. > > I think you’re assuming some sort of ladder of power and right that doesn’t necessarily have to be there. I don’t think humans are more valuable than plants, but that doesn’t mean that I’d eat a person as readily as an apple, and that has nothing to do with “ick” factor. \*\* In what ways are plants equal to us? ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/38 "2002-10-08T12:54:22Z")
**Rabid Lamb** got there first, but I’ll reiterate my question anyway: What do you mean by “value”? The word “valuable” seems waaaay out of context here. Not to mention the fact that “value” is entirely user-specific. The value to me of something will be different to the value to you. I value my immediate family, friends and pets highly because they increase the “happiness quotient” (or **utility** , to give it its proper name) in my life. However since you don’t know them, their value to you is much smaller than the value of _your_ family and friends. By this definition, I do generally value humans more highly than animals, to the extent that the loss of their life will emotionally affect me more greatly. However since this is a subjective idea, one cannot extrapolate to the universal idea that humans are more “valuable” _per se_ pan ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/39 "2002-10-09T02:58:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\ ***Rabid Lamb** got there first, but I’ll reiterate my question anyway: > > What do you mean by “value”? > > The word “valuable” seems waaaay out of context here. > > Not to mention the fact that “value” is entirely user-specific. The value to me of something will be different to the value to you. I value my immediate family, friends and pets highly because they increase the “happiness quotient” (or **utility** , to give it its proper name) in my life. However since you don’t know them, their value to you is much smaller than the value of _your_ family and friends. > > By this definition, I do generally value humans more highly than animals, to the extent that the loss of their life will emotionally affect me more greatly. However since this is a subjective idea, one cannot extrapolate to the universal idea that humans are more “valuable” _per se_ > > pan \*\* When I say value, I mean in the grand scheam of things. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994/40 "2002-10-09T04:49:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\* > In what ways are plants equal to us? \*\* I think you’re missing my point Joel. I don’t say that plants are “equal” to us either. I don’t assign any value terms to them at all. Neither “equal” nor “lower” nor “greater.” You say you mean value “in the grand scheme of things.” To me “the grand scheme of things” involves the whole operation of existance itself, and in that scheme of things, any “thing” has such little value that it’s all on equal footing. As others have said, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a value system independant of your own perceptions, unless this is a religious debate about whether God (or whomever you believe in) values people more than other living things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-valuable-is-human-life/130994.md?page=3)