# How vulgar in French? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699 "2014-12-19T20:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/1 "2014-12-19T20:56:18Z")
There are a couple of phrases in French that mean about the same thing: “Je m’en fiche!” and “Je m’en fous!” They both mean, more or less, “I don’t give a damn!” or “I don’t give a fuck!” I had always been under the impression that “Je m’en fous” was considerably more vulgar and corresponded to “I don’t give a fuck”. But the other evening I was talking with my Algerian friend and he said they both are used in conversation and neither was particularly naughty or salty. The exact way that he put it was, “They both mean the same thing but “Je m’en fiche” is slang”. The reason this came up at all was from watching a documentary regarding the late fifties in Vietnam. There was an interview with an ex-colonial Frenchman who was summing up his indifference to a particular question with a series of “Je m’en fous” in reply. In seemed to me strange that such a vulgar reply was being given on camera. So what’s the skinny? Might it be that the usage in France is that different from the Algerian usage? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/2 "2014-12-19T21:50:24Z")
It’s just slang, not really vulgar. “Foutre” and “ficher” both originally meant “to fuck”. In things like 18th century pornographic litterature. But neither is currently used with this meaning. I’d guess that a majority wouldn’t known about “foutre”, and almost nobody would know about “ficher”, much rarer even in the past. I guess that, maybe, in the 50s, “je m’en fous” would have been considered vulgar in good society. And “je m’en fiche” would have been more acceptable. Nowadays, it’s just low-key. Not elegant. To express the same thing more elegantly you can say “je m’en moque”. Or if you want, at the contrary, to be vulgar, you can say “je m’en branle”. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/3 "2014-12-19T22:07:08Z")
Changing my postion about a majority not knowing about “foutre”. Everybody would understand what “va te faire foutre!” (“go fuck yourself”) means. But I don’t think people are clearly making the connection with something like “je m’en fous”. I think that both are leftovers from a time when “foutre” was commonly used and understood but are now standalones, each with its own meaning and independent level of vulgarity. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/4 "2014-12-19T22:11:39Z")
Another similar example is “con”. Technically, it means “cunt”. But it isn’t anymore used to refer to female genitalia, and most people wouldn’t know its real meaning. And as an insult, it’s so common that it became quite mild, contrarily to its highly offensive English equivalent. Most of the time, I would translate it as “moron”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/5 "2014-12-19T22:35:57Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Another similar example is “con”. Technically, it means “cunt”. But it isn’t anymore used to refer to female genitalia, and most people wouldn’t know its real meaning. And as an insult, it’s so common that it became quite mild, contrarily to its highly offensive English equivalent. Most of the time, I would translate it as “moron”. As in the recent movie [_Le Diner de Cons_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_D%C3%AEner_de_Cons_(film)), remade in English as [_Dinner for Schmucks_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner_for_Schmucks). The translated title is an interesting parallel since “schmuck” literally means “dick” in Yiddish, but many people don’t know this and it basically just means “idiot” in English. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/6 "2014-12-19T23:24:38Z")
KATHARINE … de hand, de fingres, de nails, de arma, de bilbow. ALICE De elbow, madame. KATHARINE O Seigneur Dieu, je m’en oublie! de elbow. Comment appelez-vous le col? ALICE De neck, madame. KATHARINE De nick. Et le menton? ALICE De chin. KATHARINE De sin. Le col, de nick; de menton, de sin. ALICE Oui. Sauf votre honneur, en verite, vous prononcez les mots aussi droit que les natifs d’Angleterre. KATHARINE Je ne doute point d’apprendre, par la grace de Dieu, et en peu de temps. ALICE N’avez vous pas deja oublie ce que je vous ai enseigne? KATHARINE Non, je reciterai a vous promptement: de hand, de fingres, de mails– ALICE De nails, madame. KATHARINE De nails, de arm, de ilbow. ALICE Sauf votre honneur, de elbow. KATHARINE Ainsi dis-je; de elbow, de nick, et de sin. Comment appelez-vous le pied et la robe? ALICE De foot, madame; et de coun. KATHARINE De foot et de coun! O Seigneur Dieu! ce sont mots de son mauvais, corruptible, gros, et impudique, et non pour les dames d’honneur d’user: je ne voudrais prononcer ces mots devant les seigneurs de France pour tout le monde. Foh! le foot et le coun! Neanmoins, je reciterai une autre fois ma lecon ensemble: de hand, de fingres, de nails, de arm, de elbow, de nick, de sin, de foot, de coun. ALICE Excellent, madame! ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/7 "2014-12-20T02:35:30Z")
I know that! Lessons in beginners English…for a French Princess with an English accent. Learn from this book and you will soon find your way around the anatomy of the French language: > **[Merde!](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Q4TUK4-dUrAC&pg=PA37&source=gbs_selected_pages&hl=en)** > > Learn all the French argot (slang), dirty words, and necessary tools of communication your teachers left out of their lesson plans with this essential survival guide to understanding everyday French.Deliciously saucy and full of wit Merde! is a... ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/8 "2014-12-20T03:14:28Z")
Didn’t we used to learn French anatomy from singing _Alouette_ ? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/9 "2014-12-20T14:24:08Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > They both mean, more or less, “I don’t give a damn!” As a matter of fact, I would say that “je m’en fous” is exactly like “I don’t give a damn.” I would use the two in exactly the same situations. Furthermore, like “foutre,” “damn” was once much more vulgar than it is now. My grandmother would never have uttered “je m’en fous” but she (very rarely) did say “je m’en fiche.” Nowadays, though, it’s acceptable in almost all social settings. Likewise, when Rhett Butler said “I don’t give a damn,” it was actually, I believe, a much stronger statement than it seems to us. Another expression that uses “foutre” is: “qu’est-ce que j’en ai à foutre?” You can also use “damn” to translate it: “why in the damn should I care?” Here “foutre” replaces “faire” in “qu’est-ce que j’en ai à faire?” “What in the hell is he doing?” can also become: “mais qu’est-ce qu’il fout?” By the way, “foutre” as a very vulgar word survives until today in erotic literature, where, as a noun, it means “cum.” Likewise, “con” survives in its original meaning in erotica. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/10 "2014-12-20T14:38:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As in the recent movie [_Le Diner de Cons_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_D%C3%AEner_de_Cons_(film)), remade in English as [_Dinner for Schmucks_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner_for_Schmucks). The translated title is an interesting parallel since “schmuck” literally means “dick” in Yiddish, but many people don’t know this and it basically just means “idiot” in English. Isaac Asimov recounted in one of his books the joke about the two idiots riding a camel that got away from them. “What happened?” someone asks. “Well, we were stopped at a red light, someone beside us in a car said ‘Look at the two schmucks on that camel’ so we got off to have a look and the camel took off without us.” Asimov mentioned that quite a few friends, even Jewish ones, did not know the real Yiddish meaning and failed to really understand this joke. Our high school French class once had a field trip to a movie theatre to see “Mon Oncle Antoine” when it first came out. One of the very first lines was: “Hey Joe - le boss!” “Ah, il mange le rat!” - translated as “I don’t give a shit”. Back country Quebecois was not quite the same as classroom French, and there were no warnings about the language… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/11 "2014-12-20T16:53:08Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Isaac Asimov recounted in one of his books the joke about the two idiots riding a camel that got away from them. > “What happened?” someone asks. > “Well, we were stopped at a red light, someone beside us in a car said ‘Look at the two schmucks on that camel’ so we got off to have a look and the camel took off without us.” > Asimov mentioned that quite a few friends, even Jewish ones, did not know the real Yiddish meaning and failed to really understand this joke. I heard a version of that about “look at the two assholes on the elephant.” In German “schmuck” means jewelry. So I was amused when I visited Switzerland to see stores with big signs that said SCHMUCK.[(The relationship between the German and Yiddish versions of “schmuck” is disputed.)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_%28pejorative%29) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/12 "2014-12-20T23:25:25Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Changing my postion about a majority not knowing about “foutre”. Everybody would understand what “va te faire foutre!” (“go fuck yourself”) means. But I don’t think people are clearly making the connection with something like “je m’en fous”. > > I think that both are leftovers from a time when “foutre” was commonly used and understood but are now standalones, each with its own meaning and independent level of vulgarity. Another holdover is “foutre le camp”. And the word foutu is still used and understood with the same metaphorical sense as the English “fucked”. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-vulgar-in-french/707699/13 "2014-12-20T23:37:20Z")
So it sounds like “fous” in this sense has through common usage been diluted from its original strength. If I’m getting the gist of the posts, for which thanks, it’s not something that would appear in a speech but not anything to knock your Mom’s socks off at the dinner table. Non?