# How was Europe disarmed after WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2009, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829 "2009-04-12T10:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/21 "2009-04-13T17:19:51Z")
Well, heavy guns and military machinery were held by uniformed soldiers so any surrender meant that these things were collected and destroyed. That’s probably 90% right there. Im guessing you’ll always have 10% or so floating around, being sold, kept for militias, kept for souvenirs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/22 "2009-04-13T17:19:56Z")
> [@glee](#): > > You don’t say where you’re from, but most posters here are from the US. > As many debates on gun control have shown, there is a clear cultural difference between the US and most of Europe (certainly with the UK). > > Here in England, the beat police don’t have guns. > Guns are not allowed for home defence. > There are massive restrictions on all guns, including handguns. > All this is very popular and there are no signs of any changes. > > So the answer to your question is that when my father came home from the war, he handed his rifle in. Why wouldn’t he? No laws were needed. > Apart from being a soldier in war-time, none of my family have ever owned or fired any gun\*. The only guns you ever see are anti-terrorist police at major airports. > \*I confess that I have: > > - fired a shotgun in Canada (I hit a bucket over 20 feet away!) > - fired a .22 rifle at my school’s shooting range (only feasible in Private Schools) > - am going clay-pigeon shooting tomorrow (I’m on holiday in Africa) Gun laws in the UK were not quite as restrictive as you suggest, at least until the 60s, 70s. Many returning servicemen, including my father, brought home souvenirs such as German Lugers, etc. For a law-abiding citizen it wasn’t difficult to get a gun licence in the 50s and many weapons from the war were available on the black market. Various gun amnesties, when guns could be handed in no questions asked, took care of a lot of the arms floating about. My father gave up the Luger in one such. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/23 "2009-04-13T17:24:25Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Yes, but it wouldn’t be necessary since the obvious reading of the second amendment is that only the state militia (i.e. National Guard) have a constitutional right to bear arms. This is not a popular view, of course, but it is a reasonable one and, if the political will changed, I think the courts woulds see it that way too. Let’s not divert this thread into another debate about the meaning of the Second Amendment. All I’ll say is that it’s not as “obvious” as you’d like to be able to presume. I don’t expect you to agree, I just would rather you didn’t wave a reg-flag issue only tangentially related to the thread. If **anyone** wants to comment further on this, I suggest we take it to Great Debates or The Pit. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/24 "2009-04-13T17:26:25Z")
My dad brought back a couple of German daggers which I still have. Now, off my lawn, sharpish! ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/25 "2009-04-14T08:55:56Z")
Like Norway, Finland _still_ has loads of WWII weaponry (mostly pistols and rifles) strewn about, in people’s attics, closets etc. Occasionally even large weapon stashes, including MPs, hand grenades etc. surface from old country houses the relatives of a deceased Veteran start cleaning up. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/26 "2009-04-14T10:11:34Z")
My paternal family (in North Rhine-Westphalia) regaled us with tales of how they hid their rifles (prewar hunting guns, not military service weapons) initially from the occupying troops (which were Belgians at the time). They got a grilling or two at the local police station, but in a civilized way. They hid the guns not because of a perceived need for defence or insurgency, but simply as valuable items. The incentive not to hide guns was mainly prison terms or fines if the occupiers got tipped off. An example on how arms got to literally lie around: my father was a navy cadet but ended up as infantry in Bavaria in a troop of 16-year-olds led by 19-year-olds like him. At the end their commanding officer quietly said to the 19-year-olds ‘boys, the war is lost, let’s avoid losses’ (couldn’t trust the 16-year-olds with that), and they stacked their arms and sat against a wall. An American column approached and … drove by. Must have been a bit anticlimactic. They then demobbed themselves and left in various directions, leaving all their arms to avoid being shot on sight. (this was different from German-held territory where they’d needed to keep their arms to avoid being _hanged_ on sight). So, an orderly heap of _Panzerfaust_s and rifles left at the roadside… ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/27 "2009-04-14T13:39:22Z")
‘Europe’ is a very broad brush for the OP to pose this question with. In France there was something of a tradition that _resistants_ could keep their stuff hidden and nobody would bother too much about it if it wasn’t too obvious (and if you were a Communist, as many of them were, you might need it for the Big Day). As that wartime generation dies off no doubt some of this stuff will come to light. When I went to the Somme battlefield region in 1996 the villagers brought us some cheese and wine, and exhibited several obviously illegal firearms which they had retained in defiance of the regulations. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/28 "2009-04-14T18:11:56Z")
In France, resistance members were integrated into the regular armed forces after the Liberation. I assume they exchanged they weapons for regular rifles, etc… that they in turn gave back at the end of the war. However, many were still floating around. When I was a kid during the 70s, in a region where resistance activity was significant during WWII, the “Gendarmerie” was still occasionally seizing ammunition caches and the like. During the early 90s, it was discovered that there was a still existing secret and armed dormant anti-communist network (created in case communists would take over after the liberation) that had never been disbanded, everybody except its members having forgotten about it. The same network existed in Italy and similarly had been forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/29 "2009-04-15T01:16:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Political will means that a significant amount of the population has changed their minds. If enough of them change their minds, we could even repeal the second amendment. Delusional fantasy at it’s finest. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/30 "2009-04-15T02:07:59Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > In France, resistance members were integrated into the regular armed forces after the Liberation. I assume they exchanged they weapons for regular rifles, etc.. that they in turn gave back at the end of the war. > > However, many were still floating around. When I was a kid during the 70s, in a region where resistance activity was significant during WWII, the “Gendarmerie” was still occasionally seizing ammunition caches and the like. During the early 90s, it was discovered that there was a still existing secret and armed dormant anti-communist network (created in case communists would take over after the liberation) that had never been disbanded, everybody except its members having forgotten about it. The same network existed in Italy and similarly had been forgotten. Part of Operation Gladio - Google ’ US Field Manual 30-31B 18.’ Numerous links on so called ‘stay behind operations’, arguably this continued at least into the 80s and perhaps longer. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/31 "2009-04-15T02:49:28Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Like Norway, Finland _still_ has loads of WWII weaponry (mostly pistols and rifles) strewn about, in people’s attics, closets etc. Occasionally even large weapon stashes, including MPs, hand grenades etc. surface from old country houses the relatives of a deceased Veteran start cleaning up. People in Finland still have Military Police in their attics? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/32 "2009-04-15T03:56:44Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > People in Finland still have Military Police in their attics? In case you aren’t whooshing, MP in this context would mean Machine Pistol, what in the US is called a submachine gun. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/33 "2009-04-15T06:13:05Z")
Thanks, was merely making a dumb joke in order to receive that answer. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/34 "2009-04-15T08:41:23Z")
Had I used the abbreviation ‘SMGs’, someone would’ve surely come up with “What? Your Veterans hide Sado-Masochistic Gays in their attics?”. Lame? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/35 "2009-04-15T11:03:59Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Spain had a Division of troops which fought in Russia as well. But those guys weren’t part of the Spanish Army, it was a Division of the German Army formed by Spanish volunteers. Don’t see what they have to do with the question, by the way. Most of them weren’t able to come home anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/36 "2009-04-15T11:24:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > During the early 90s, it was discovered that there was a still existing secret and armed dormant anti-communist network (created in case communists would take over after the liberation) that had never been disbanded, everybody except its members having forgotten about it. The same network existed in Italy and similarly had been forgotten. Wikilink to the above mentioned [Operation Gladio](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio). ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/37 "2009-04-15T12:09:14Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > My dad brought back a couple of German daggers which I still have. > > Now, off my lawn, sharpish! Thanks to the neo-nazis, it can be…tricky… to display WWII souveniers. Something like your daggers probably wouldn’t be an issue even if they have swastikas on them. But one certainly couldn’t put a captured nazi flag up on display. But I don’t know if it’s different over there in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/38 "2009-04-15T12:14:46Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But those guys weren’t part of the Spanish Army, it was a Division of the German Army formed by Spanish volunteers. > > Don’t see what they have to do with the question, by the way. Most of them weren’t able to come home anyway. IIRC most of the Spanish Army officer till the end of the Franco era had served in the Blue Division, including most of the plotters of the Feb 23 Coup. What I meant was, that since the division was brought home pretty suddely, its possible that they kept their weapons as souviniers. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/39 "2009-04-17T13:29:49Z")
[Here’s](http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/download/csipubs/gott_mobility.pdf) a military paper related to the topic. It’s about the law-enforcement role of the US military in post war Germany ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829/40 "2009-04-17T14:58:00Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > What? Your Veterans hide Sado-Masochistic Gays in their attics? Doesn’t everyone? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-europe-disarmed-after-wwii/492829.md?page=3)