# How was langguage formed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660 "2012-08-26T00:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/1 "2012-08-26T00:37:20Z")
How was langguage formed? How humans got to be speakars? Seriously, please talk about the latest and greatest theories or discoveries to account for language origin within human evolution—_if_ there _are_ any updates to this subject, I want to hear them here first. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/2 "2012-08-26T01:53:11Z")
I’m not sure I have any updates for you. I was reading up on the ‘birth ground of PIE’ debate the other day, though - I follow the language log blog ([here](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/)) and they had a post about someone arguing that Anatolia, not the steppes of Ukraine or thereabouts, is where PIE was spoken. The people on that log are skeptical, it seems, but it’s a fascinating debate. Do you have any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/3 "2012-08-26T02:06:03Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I’m not sure I have any updates for you. I was reading up on the ‘birth ground of PIE’ debate the other day, though - I follow the language log blog ([here](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/)) and they had a post about someone arguing that Anatolia, not the steppes of Ukraine or thereabouts, is where PIE was spoken. The people on that log are skeptical, it seems, but it’s a fascinating debate. Do you have any thoughts? I saw that, and I was very skeptical, too. It seems people are performing mathematical analayses on data from different languages, which is awesome, but in selecting their data they are basically ignoring the entire field of historical linguistics, because… well, I’m not sure why they would do that. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/4 "2012-08-26T02:17:13Z")
> [@](#): > > How was langguage formed? How humans got to be speakars? They needed to do way illitert caveman, who draw on walls, because these wall cant tauk back? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/5 "2012-08-26T03:21:54Z")
See [these](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15099058&postcount=15) [posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15099892&postcount=16) from a previous thread. In reverse order > [@](#): > > Complex composite tools, like hafted axes, began to appear about 300K years ago in several human lines. While not discussed in these articles, it is not completely clear they invented by these different groups independently or spread as an idea once invented by one group. > > It does seem that this advanced tool making capacity required growth in brain areas overlapping those required for human level language development and longer term planning, including one adjacent to Broca’s area and various frontal lobe areas, such as areas of the inferior left frontal lobe, the frontopolar prefrontal cortex, and the inferior frontal gyrus. The hypothesis expressed in these articles is that advanced tool making and language capacities drove each other. This hypothesis dovetails nicely with other work that supports the concept that language began primarily as gestural (hand signs) and had vocalization built on top of it The other post links to [this article](http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6080/408.summary?sid=86a2115d-a632-4137-bc0f-ed5e789d5b54) and includes a larger quote that includes this statement and supportive information as well: > [@](#): > > One hypothesis is that the cognitive capabilities that supported toolmaking gave the toolmakers language-ready brains; then the benefits of instructing succeeding generations in how to make tools drove the emergence of language. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/6 "2012-08-26T03:51:09Z")
Great question and a bonus question is how was the written language formed, e.g. try reading Dutch! ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/7 "2012-08-26T16:24:54Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > How was langguage formed? Same way as babby. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/8 "2012-08-26T16:30:37Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I saw that, and I was very skeptical, too. It seems people are performing mathematical analayses on data from different languages, which is awesome, but in selecting their data they are basically ignoring the entire field of historical linguistics, because… well, I’m not sure why they would do that. There are also people who argue for an Anatolian origin of PIE on the basis that wheat originated there (in this theory, obviously, PIE would have spread with agriculture). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/9 "2012-08-26T16:32:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > See [these](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15099058&postcount=15) [posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15099892&postcount=16) from a previous thread. Some argue, though, that Neanderthals didn’t use an elaborate language, and of course they lived much more recently than 300 000 years ago and used complex tools. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/10 "2012-08-26T16:44:55Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Same way as babby. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/11 "2012-08-26T16:50:17Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Great question and a bonus question is how was the written language formed, e.g. try reading Dutch! Are you referring to that language classic, “Rarnaby Budge” by Charles Dikkens. That’s Dikkens with two Ks, the well-known Dutch author? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/12 "2012-08-26T17:23:53Z")
I’m trying to recall from my Anthropology classes decades ago. But I remember being taught that spoken language evolved as it became useful to hunters to be able to communicate over short distances without having to stay in visual contact to see hand signals. And written language started as basically accounting, with merchants writing down inventories and such. I recall that the earliest Egyptian, Sumerian etc writings were just inventory lists. If you could learn to make these markings, you could be hired and get a leg up statuswise. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/13 "2012-08-26T17:30:22Z")
Didn’t Terrance McKenna have some crackpot theory about hallucinagenic mushrooms starting human symbolic language? Burroughs of course had the theory language is a virus from space, but he did not even add a pretense of reality to it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/14 "2012-08-26T17:49:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Some argue, though, that Neanderthals didn’t use an elaborate language, and of course they lived much more recently than 300 000 years ago and used complex tools. Yet they have no basis for the belief that Neanderthals did not “an elaborate language”, be it either spoken or gestural or some combination thereof. They did have the gene that is associated with language, [FOXP2](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071018-neandertal-gene.html). While the debate is not settled the current consensus is leaning to the conclusion that [they did have language](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/26/neanderthal-bones-right-handed-language_n_1828725.html). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/15 "2012-08-26T17:51:36Z")
My first reaction on seeing the title and the first post in this thread was to say, “Oh, no, Johanna has had a stroke. She’s always been one of the most literate posters on the SDMB. She knows a great deal about linguistics. Something must have happened to her to mess up her mind. We got to get help for her.” O.K., it’s just a joke. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/16 "2012-08-26T18:06:34Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > My first reaction on seeing the title and the first post in this thread was to say, “Oh, no, Johanna has had a stroke. She’s always been one of the most literate posters on the SDMB. She knows a great deal about linguistics. Something must have happened to her to mess up her mind. We got to get help for her.” O.K., it’s just a joke. I hope. I had a similar reaction. Isn’t \*\*Johanna \*\*a professional linguistics person? Certainly a very knowledgeable one. Maybe someone’s hijacked her login. Or you and me are missing the point of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/17 "2012-08-26T18:08:42Z")
Someone hijacked my login once and posted a question like what is shit? hoping to embarass me. With the questions I usually post however no one noticed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/18 "2012-08-26T18:43:24Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > My first reaction on seeing the title and the first post in this thread was to say, “Oh, no, Johanna has had a stroke. She’s always been one of the most literate posters on the SDMB. She knows a great deal about linguistics. Something must have happened to her to mess up her mind. We got to get help for her.” O.K., it’s just a joke. I hope. I, too, was surprised. Something is amiss. In fact, I will report this thread just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/19 "2012-08-26T18:52:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I, too, was surprised. Something is amiss. In fact, I will report this thread just in case. [Know Your Meme: How is babby formed? How girl get pragnent?](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-is-babby-formed) **Johanna** has made two posts subsequent to this one, both of which look normal to me. I presume she is just joking around. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660/20 "2012-08-26T19:16:10Z")
Well, that’s the point. The OP does not look normal at all. Of all people to misspell “language.” Twice. And “speakar.” The fragmentare “How humans got to be speakars [sic].” It’s enough to make us suspicious that someone is pulling our leg with his account. Compare that to a post like [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=199790&page=2) or [yesterday’s.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15423459&postcount=11) Yeah, it’s enough to cause us to twitch our collective antennae. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-langguage-formed/632660.md?page=2)