# How was the rest of the world "ripping us off"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757 "2025-04-07T20:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/21 "2025-04-08T12:16:17Z")
More fun commentary, now from HuffPo: > [@](#): > > # Trump’s Rationales For His Tariffs Are Incoherent And Contradict Each Other > > Bring back manufacturing? Raise revenue? Negotiate with every country in the world? Trump can’t have his cake and eat it too. > **[Trump's Explanations For His Tariffs Actually Make No Sense At All](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-tariff-rationales_n_67f43312e4b09643222ccc46)** > > Bring back manufacturing? Raise revenue? Negotiate with every country in the world? Trump can’t have his cake and eat it too. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/22 "2025-04-08T16:30:28Z")
Even so, there are simply not enough unemployed people in America to build all this stuff. Especially not when many immigrants are being deported or discouraged from ever coming here. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/23 "2025-04-08T16:35:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Even so, there are simply not enough unemployed people in America to build all this stuff. That’s what the recession is for. Kill off enough good jobs, and people will be clamoring for the shitty ones! Smrt! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/24 "2025-04-08T16:36:29Z")
So the goal is to reduce average incomes in the United States? Why? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/25 "2025-04-08T16:39:45Z")
One possible answer: > **[Trump’s Trade Contradictions Come Home to Roost](https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/04/08/trump-trade-tariff-dollar-markets-confidence/)** > > The dollar is falling instead of rising—a defiance of tariff theory that shows investors are losing faith in America. > [@](#): > > U.S. President Donald Trump has long been of two minds about the dollar. He has said he wants it weaker to make American products cheaper in global markets, but he has also said he wants it strong so it remains the world’s dominant reserve currency. > > Those two objectives never made sense together. And now, as his tariff war threatens the U.S. economy, we’re seeing reality bite. Trump is getting the weakness he wants. The dollar has fallen 5 percent against other major currencies since his inauguration in January. But the strength he promised is nowhere to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/26 "2025-04-08T16:54:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So the goal is to reduce average incomes in the United States? Why? Because the rich people are all apparently idiots now. I’m sure if you asked them, they’d deny ever wanting such a thing, but look at what they’re actually doing. Any suggestion that wages should rise, or that the economy relies on regular consumers actually being able to afford things like rent and food, are met with shock and anger, and we’re told we should be grateful for the jobs they deign to create for us. Same with any suggestion that Americans might want better jobs than hard physical labor that destroys your body for less than a living wage. I can’t explain why they do this, but anyone who takes a serious look will see that this is what they’re doing. This whole stupid presidency is predicated on this. Destroy good paying jobs in government, academia, sciences, engineering, and replace them with agriculture and factory work. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/27 "2025-04-08T16:55:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So the goal is to reduce average incomes in the United States? Why? Because he’s stupid. I mean, this isn’t difficult – he has a 17th century understanding of trade, he doesn’t understand things like VAT (essentially, just sales taxes) and definitely doesn’t understand comparative advantage. He doesn’t understand that you can export services. He doesn’t understand anything. There’s no goal. The rest of the world was selling us stuff and taking US currency in return – we got TVs, they got Benjamins. They weren’t ripping us off. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/28 "2025-04-08T16:57:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So the goal is to reduce average incomes in the United States? Why? Spite. “The cruelty is the point”. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/29 "2025-04-08T18:12:02Z")
Trump even put tariffs on countries which the US has a trade surplus with, who by his standards are already being ripped off by the US. So it’s not about being ripped off. His plan seems to be to use tariffs to shake down other countries and get more money for America, regardless of fairness. Trouble is, tariffs, especially blanket tariffs of this sort, hurt the country that applies them as well as the countries they are aimed at. And the uncertainty created by Trump’s chopping and changing is far more damaging to the economy than any possible benefit he could get from his deals. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Even so, there are simply not enough unemployed people in America to build all this stuff. Especially not when many immigrants are being deported or discouraged from ever coming here. I don’t think that is actually a problem. I have always heard that if manufacturing was returned to the US, it wouldn’t create many jobs because most of it would need to be automated to be viable. I don’t know enough about economics to know if doing this would benefit America, but Trump’s tariffs are definitely not the way to achieve it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/30 "2025-04-08T19:05:56Z")
There are such a thing as Good tariffs- even Biden had a few. Let us take China , who made it nigh impossible or super expensive to sell a US made EV in China, then undercut American EV manufacturers by using cheap labor- maybe even prison labor- and a “loss leader” price. In this case, you have to put in a tariff to make things fair. But America is a rich nation, and in general- rich nations have a trade imbalance with poor nations. So I accept some level of China tariffs, etc- but certainly not vs Canada, Mexico and other friendly nations. Tariffs are not evil. trump simply doesnt understand how tariffs work, and he has no advisor who will explain it to him- either they are sycophants or just as unknowledgeable. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/31 "2025-04-08T19:36:41Z")
The quiet part that isn’t making the headlines is that Trump also wants countries to cut their more stringent regulations that keep American goods out. Europe doesn’t allow in agricultural products made from GMOs, which are in common usage in America. Blackmailing them is the only way they might possibly accede. But that’s not as sexy as the public idiocy. Trump is an absolute moron, for sure. But he probably understood blackmail in his crib. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/32 "2025-04-08T19:39:01Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Europe doesn’t allow in agricultural products made from GMOs, which are in common usage in America. Which is anti-science. Pretty much All our foods are GMO foods- even see what the proto corn looked like? Or wheat? Even beef is not like it was before we started breeding them. And the EU doesnt have a blanket ban anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mtnmatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@mtnmatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mtnmatt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/33 "2025-04-08T19:55:25Z")
I talked to the CEO of a company I work with, who wanted to build a factory in Texas, to complement the ones he has in Asia and Australia. He’s reconsidering now, because he’s not sure what the tariffs will be on the equipment he needs to import here to use in that factory. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/34 "2025-04-08T20:10:36Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The gamble is that manufacturing returns to the US, producing more jobs here so now people have jobs and more money stays in the US As Paul Krugman asked: do you really want sweatshop jobs? There is a reason they were outsorced. And if you answer “yes! I want sweatshop jobs for Americans just like I want child labour!” I will know who you voted for. > [@Babale](#): > > The rest of the world was ripping us off in _precisely_ the same way that your grocery store is ripping you off by not buying as many dollars’ worth of products from you as you buy from them. Exactly. Or your pizza delivery service, to take xkcd’s example published by LSLGuy in [post #7.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/8) > [@Horatius](#): > > Because the rich people are all apparently idiots now. > > […] Any suggestion that wages should rise, or that the economy relies on regular consumers actually being able to afford things like rent and food, are met with shock and anger Just imagine rich people today are dumber than Henry Ford. And so is the president of the USA. [Inconceivable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9MS2y2YU_o), huh? > [@DrDeth](#): > > trump simply doesnt understand how tariffs work, and he has no advisor who will explain it to him- either they are sycophants or just as unknowledgeable. Otherwise they would not remain trump’s advisors. Everyone who contradicts him is nasty and he does not have nasty advisors because he can’t stand people who are nasty. To him, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/35 "2025-04-08T21:40:07Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Trouble is, tariffs, especially blanket tariffs of this sort, hurt the country that applies them as well as the countries they are aimed at. Generally speaking a blanket tariff like this is going to cause more harm to the country that applied it than to the countries it was applied to. The whole point of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which Trump has cited as his authority to impose his tariffs, is that a reduction in trade is an economic weapon. The idea is you want to cut off the international trade of the nation you’re targeting; so you want other countries to follow your lead and impose their own tariffs on the country you’ve targeted. The target country is in trouble because nobody is trading with it. But you’re not hurt too badly because you’ve only reduced trade with one country and you’re still trading with all the others. What Trump has managed to achieve is to put the United States into the target position. His tariff list will reduce American trade with 180 other countries and those 180 countries will reduce their trade with America - but they will all continue trading with each other. So the United States will be harmed much more by this trade war than any other country will be. If any other country had organized this economic isolation of the United States, we would justifiably be calling it a declaration of economic war. But it was our own President that did it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/36 "2025-04-08T21:47:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What Trump has managed to achieve is to put the United States into the target position. His tariff list will reduce American trade with 180 other countries and those 180 countries will reduce their trade with America - but they will all continue trading with each other. So the United States will be harmed much more by this trade war than any other country will be. > > If any other country had organized this economic isolation of the United States, we would justifiably be calling it a declaration of economic war. But it was our own President that did it. Yeah. If this was done by an _outside_ force it would be called an embargo, a classic act of economic warfare. In this case however it’s just self destructive stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/37 "2025-04-08T22:06:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If any other country had organized this economic isolation of the United States, we would justifiably be calling it a declaration of economic war. But it was our own President that did it. We have declared full-scale economic nuclear war. … on the United States. If anyone doubted our President was a Manchurian Candidate, here’s the incontrovertible truth. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/38 "2025-04-08T22:14:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So how could these jobs return to the US without a massive increase in the cost of the clothes? Or a massive decrease in what clothing workers earn. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/39 "2025-04-08T22:15:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Europe doesn’t allow in agricultural products made from GMOs, which are in common usage in America. Blackmailing them is the only way they might possibly accede. But their beef is weak and we have beautiful beef! > **[Howard Lutnick rants about ‘beautiful’ beef and ‘weak’ beef](https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/howard-lutnick-commerce-secretary-beef-trump-tariffs-rcna199608)** > > Trump’s commerce secretary bemoaned that European countries won’t accept imports of certain meats from the United States. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/40 "2025-04-08T22:46:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But you’re not hurt too badly because you’ve only reduced trade with one country and you’re still trading with all the others. I think it’s an open question how much of the US demand can be replaced by other countries. We are a huge importer of goods (**[over $3T in 2024](https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_imports_of_goods_yearly)**) I think it’s a fairly reasonable assumption that it would be easier for the rest of the world to _reallocate existing levels of purchases_ than it would be to _bump up their purchases_ to compensate for any US-originated losses. I think this would be _most_ true with the poorer nations who probably always pedal just about as fast as they can, though their contribution to the solution would be similarly marginal, regardless. It’s all a matter of degree (ie, it’s not all/nothing), but I’m not sure how much of the damage the rest of the world can really ameliorate if Trump never regains his vestigial and rapidly-waning sanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757.md?page=3)