# How was the rest of the world "ripping us off"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757 "2025-04-07T20:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/61 "2025-04-09T12:19:01Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Presumably, these former manufacturing workers are hoping to get something like their old jobs back I don’t think these people exist. What I mean is, unemployment is 4%, and has been that low for the last 3 years. It’s a stupidly low number, historically low, as low as it was when the US was the only large industrialized nation that wasn’t bombed to shit in WWII. There aren’t millions of recently laid off manufacturing workers eagerly waiting for factories to be built. They already have jobs. If the US built factories for a couple million workers, we would immediately have a workforce shortage, and businesses all over would have trouble running their businesses. This is the most baffling part of the “bring manufacturing back” message. It’s not 1975, we’re not banging on 8% unemployment with a bunch of the midwest reeling after auto and steel industry layoffs. We also are the world’s second biggest manufacturer of goods already, behind a country that has 4x our population. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/62 "2025-04-09T12:28:37Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > As Paul Krugman asked: do you really want sweatshop jobs? There is a reason they were outsorced. And if you answer “yes! I want sweatshop jobs for Americans just like I want child labour!” I will know who you voted for. I’ve been in factories in Canada, a rich first world country, that made clothing. More complex and specialized clothing than you’d import from Cambodia, but it’s cutting and sewing. They’re not bad places to work. It’s good employment. There isn’t anything degrading or wrong about making clothes. The reason this sort of work is 98% offshored is not that the work is bad or that you couldn’t find people to do it. That is totally wrong, and it’s not why we trade with other countries. It’s sent overseas because of comparative advantage; we absolutely, 100 percent could make clothing in the USA or Canada or wherever, but our time is better spent making other things. We are COMPARATIVELY better at making airplanes, software, and extruded aluminum. The opportunity cost of making clothing here is higher than it is in other countries. That’s all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/63 "2025-04-09T12:33:38Z")
International trade should be beneficial to all parties involved. This promotes global cooperation and mutual economic growth, and that in turn improves political relationships and reduces military tensions. The Trump mentality doesn’t think that way. The Trump mentality thinks we have to “win” by taking advantage of the people we trade with by “coming out on top”. As president, he wants to continue what he’s always done in the business world, crush everyone around him. This is a very dangerous man. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/64 "2025-04-09T13:58:13Z")
I have a management saying: you give the job to the lowest-paid person who is well qualified to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/65 "2025-04-09T19:51:45Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I don’t think these people exist. What I mean is, unemployment is 4%, and has been that low for the last 3 years. It’s a stupidly low number, historically low, as low as it was when the US was the only large industrialized nation that wasn’t bombed to shit in WWII. > > There aren’t millions of recently laid off manufacturing workers eagerly waiting for factories to be built. They already have jobs. If the US built factories for a couple million workers, we would immediately have a workforce shortage, and businesses all over would have trouble running their businesses. Unemployment figures only include people actually looking for work. An additional 11% of 25-54 year old men in the US are ‘economically inactive’, which has risen from 6% in 1980 (I chose men because women have been entering the workforce in larger numbers over the same time.) AIUI, a relatively high number of people who lost their jobs when factories closed, especially older people, ended up on long term disability benefits. Others eventually found other jobs, but they may not be as good: lower pay, irregular hours, no benefits, no opportunity for advancement, etc. It would be a problem for restaurants, Walmart and Uber if their wait staff, cashiers, and drivers found better jobs, but I doubt the workers involved would care. (And as @Smapti says, manufacturing jobs won’t be coming back to the US, at least not as a result of these tariffs.) > [@LSLGuy](#): > > The American government did not enact animal welfare laws to reduce the total level of animal cruelty in the US food supply, much less the world food supply. They wanted to placate the whining soccer moms with no clue about the realities of planetary food supply or economics. I was speaking hypothetically, @LSLGuy. I know even the pre-Trump US government was not some paragon of altruism or effectiveness. I daresay that in fact a lot of countries offshored certain manufacturing as a cynical means of improving their greenhouse gas emissions figures, despite the fact this did not meaningfully reduce total emissions and may even have increased them Besides which, there is possibly some country somewhere that has tariffs on certain American products for this reason - or more likely has ‘non-tariff barriers’, like banning products that don’t meet stringent safety criteria. And this is true, too: > [@Irishman](#): > > “Citizens demand we take action so we took action,” may be a cynical legislator’s view, but those citizens were altruistic with their demand for action. * * * > [@RickJay](#): > > That is totally wrong, and it’s not why we trade with other countries. It’s sent overseas because of comparative advantage; we absolutely, 100 percent could make clothing in the USA or Canada or wherever, but our time is better spent making other things. We are COMPARATIVELY better at making airplanes, software, and extruded aluminum. The opportunity cost of making clothing here is higher than it is in other countries. That’s all there is to it. Those industries aren’t employing (all) the people who were working in the clothing and other closed factories, though. So why can’t the US manufacture both? What’s the actual opportunity cost? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/66 "2025-04-09T19:54:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Even so, there are simply not enough unemployed people in America to build all this stuff. Especially not when many immigrants are being deported or discouraged from ever coming here. Good point and I am fairly certain they are being factored into the equation. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/67 "2025-04-09T20:15:09Z")
An “equation” would require math. Nobody is doing any math. But, I’ll do some- the 125% tariffs on Chinese exports means that we need to charge our customers $15,000 over and above our quoted price for a current order. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/68 "2025-04-09T21:19:07Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Unemployment figures only include people actually looking for work. An additional 11% of 25-54 year old men in the US are ‘economically inactive’, which has risen from 6% in 1980 (I chose men because women have been entering the workforce in larger numbers over the same time.) AIUI, a relatively high number of people who lost their jobs when factories closed, especially older people, ended up on long term disability benefits. Others eventually found other jobs, but they may not be as good: lower pay, irregular hours, no benefits, no opportunity for advancement, etc. To be honest, I think some of these “economically inactive” people are not really employable; they’re not capable of following directions, self starting, etc. If they’re still unemployed _years_ after the factories closed, surely they should have been able to find something else? Now it may be that I’m being completely unfair to them; if you live in a dying Rust Belt city in Ohio for instance, there may not be many other options once the big factory in town closed. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/69 "2025-04-09T21:21:19Z")
I’d like to offer up the term “economic incels.” Thank you for your consideration. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/70 "2025-04-09T21:35:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > To be honest, I think some of these “economically inactive” people are not really employable; they’re not capable of following directions, self starting, etc. If they’re still unemployed _years_ after the factories closed, surely they should have been able to find something else? Now it may be that I’m being completely unfair to them; if you live in a dying Rust Belt city in Ohio for instance, there may not be many other options once the big factory in town closed. If they formerly had factory jobs, they must have been employable in some circumstances. Unwillingness to leave their Rust Belt city probably is the main reason, and most genuinely have health issues that render them less employable; even if they would be capable of some jobs, that doesn’t mean those jobs are available, or that there aren’t better candidates competing for them. Levels of economic inactivity did drop during the recent period of high employment, so at least some of this group are able to work if demand is high enough. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/71 "2025-04-09T21:38:36Z")
Another factor; if you last worked in a factory ten or twenty years ago, you may not be capable of the highly automated and computer-based factory work of today. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/72 "2025-04-09T21:42:05Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another factor; if you last worked in a factory ten or twenty years ago, you may not be capable of the highly automated and computer-based factory work of today Yeah, that’s definitely true. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/73 "2025-04-09T21:48:25Z")
I don’t think it’s restricted to factory work. Anyone who leaves the workforce for whatever reason will likely find that their skills have stagnated and will find it more and more difficult to get a job as time goes on. This includes soft skills like the habit of getting up every day ready and able to work, getting along with co-workers, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/74 "2025-04-09T22:01:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another factor; if you last worked in a factory ten or twenty years ago, you may not be capable of the highly automated and computer-based factory work of today. Drug addiction is also a huge factor that affects employment, especially in places like Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/75 "2025-04-09T22:12:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Those industries aren’t employing (all) the people who were working in the clothing and other closed factories, though. So why can’t the US manufacture both? What’s the actual opportunity cost? The opportunity cost is those people AND the capital - there is only so much capital, after all - are not making something else. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/76 "2025-04-09T22:18:27Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Another factor; if you last worked in a factory ten or twenty years ago, you may not be capable of the highly automated and computer-based factory work of today. > > Drug addiction is also a huge factor that affects employment, especially in places like Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia. In other words even if by some miracle these tariffs result in new factories being built, some long-term unemployed won’t be helped. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/77 "2025-04-09T22:20:05Z")
I’d say “_most_ long-term unemployed won’t be helped.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/78 "2025-04-09T22:21:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > In other words even if by some miracle these tariffs result in new factories being built, some long-term unemployed won’t be helped. That’s true everywhere. It’s not really relevant to international trade because every country has people struggling with addiction and life skills. The USA is already close to full employment. It won’t be in a few months but that’s BECAUSE of tariffs. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/79 "2025-04-09T22:24:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another factor; if you last worked in a factory ten or twenty years ago, you may not be capable of the highly automated and computer-based factory work of today. As to this, nah. I spend a LOT of my time in factories. The notion they’re all like a scene in a sci fi movie is just not true. Automation and computerization is common, but they’re factories, and you don’t need to be the kid from “War Games” to work in one. Even dirtier, more traditional factories struggle sometimes to find labor, but that’s because there days we lack skilled trades - welders, machinists, millwrights, and the like, NOT computer experts - and people willing to work in factories. Manufacturing businesses need people all the time and they’re happy to train. If you wanna work in a factory, and you’re willing to show up on time and work hard, I can find you a job in a week. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757/80 "2025-04-09T22:42:12Z")
If you’ve got those skills (welding, machining, millwright, etc), presumably you’re _not_ among the long-term unemployed but instead quickly moved to a lucrative position elsewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-was-the-rest-of-the-world-ripping-us-off/1016757.md?page=5)