# How Well Can Humans Maintain a Tempo? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142 "2012-12-06T01:06:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/21 "2012-12-06T15:19:20Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Nobody has perfect time. However, humans do vary quite a bit in ability levels in many areas. > > The percussionist in question is Bill Wilder with the Atlanta Symphony. I got my DEGREE IN PERCUSSION PERFORMANCE at the same university as a percussionist from Atlanta. This kid grew up playing in the Atlanta symphony youth orchestra, and studying with Jack Bell, another percussionist with the Atlanta Symphony. He said that it was widely known among Atlanta classical percussionists that Bill could walk away from a metronome that was clicking out a beat, go eat lunch, come back, and still be in time with the metronome. > > I’ve heard more than one story of people who can tell you, practically to the second, when, for instance, an hour has passed, so I doubt this is a completely unique ability. _Rare_, but not literally unique. The fact that you got a degree in percussion performance makes it even more clear that you’re describing an urban legend. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/22 "2012-12-06T15:36:21Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > The fact that you got a degree in percussion performance makes it even more clear that you’re describing an urban legend. That’s exactly what it sounds like. And just think about it. How is this verified? You start a metronome, the guy goes out for lunch, and comes back an hour later snapping his fingers in time. Where is this metronome? Who is watching the metronome and who is watching the percussionist, and how are they comparing whether he is snapping in time? The only way this would a valid demonstration of abilities is if the metronome is out of sight and in a sound isolation booth, no watch on his wrist, and even then, there is a reasonable chance of coincidence, especially if it’s a fast beat. Even at an average tempo like 120 bpm, that’s a click every half second, and if he’s off by a sixteenth note, I suspect a lot of people would judge him as being “in time” relatively speaking, because, after all, he’s been gone an hour with no reference, so what’s a 16th note off? It’s either an urban legend or a party trick. A true test would be one metronome in a sound isolation booth. A percussionist in another. Percussionist hears four bars (or whatever) of the beat through a monitor and then taps in time for five or ten minutes. Compare. I have no doubt some percussionists would do very well in this test. I don’t think a single one would be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/23 "2012-12-06T15:41:36Z")
So far as I can find anything approaching a cite, there’s [this](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/07/when-the-beat-goes-off/): > [@](#): > > Though the drummer is a professional, like all humans, his rhythm is imperfect. Each time his hand hits the drum, his beat falls ahead or behind the metronome by 10 to 20 milliseconds. On average, he anticipates the beat, and plays ahead of it, 16 milliseconds ahead — less than the time it takes a person to blink, or a dragonfly to flap its wings. What the physicists want to know is: Are these errors random, or correlated in a way that can be expressed by a mathematical law? And this is a professional percussionist playing _to_ a metronome. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/24 "2012-12-06T15:43:51Z")
Not sure if this would be the same or not but I have kind of an obsessive compulsive thing where I count to a clock while waiting in my car. I usually set some kind of tempo by hand tapping find out what the tempo is and then see how well I can maintain it. I average within about 2% or less, I am considered to have good rythmn as far as dancing and things go but most likley I am pretty typical. 10 min is about the longest I ever go without checking the clock. It mkaes an hour or two go by just a little bit quicker. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/25 "2012-12-06T15:53:14Z")
Interesting tangent: I read an article recently where they were studying brain waves of musicians and they noticed that musician’s brain waves synchronized to a degree that goes beyond the internal requirement for their particular piece. [http://machineslikeus.com/news/music-synchronizes-brains](http://machineslikeus.com/news/music-synchronizes-brains) ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/26 "2012-12-06T16:27:16Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > The fact that you got a degree in percussion performance makes it even more clear that you’re describing an urban legend. I have given you all the information you need to find this guy and ask him yourself. that’s where my obligation ends. Your belief is of no interest to me. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/27 "2012-12-06T17:24:12Z")
This reminds me of something I read – for some reason I think it was about Doug and Rusty Kershaw… as kids, they would stand in front of their house, start playing a tune, and each would walk around the house in opposite directions, and try to still be in time when they got to the back. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/28 "2012-12-06T17:28:30Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > A musician friend once told me that while most musicians have a good sense of time, what’s really important in practice is to be able to stay in time with the rest of the group. And there’s often someone who is **not good** at keeping time. (He claimed it was usually singers who were off.) I thought it was usually Pete Best. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/29 "2012-12-06T17:31:14Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Not sure if this would be the same or not but I have kind of an obsessive compulsive thing where I count to a clock while waiting in my car. I usually set some kind of tempo by hand tapping find out what the tempo is and then see how well I can maintain it. I average within about 2% or less, I am considered to have good rythmn as far as dancing and things go but most likley I am pretty typical. 10 min is about the longest I ever go without checking the clock. It mkaes an hour or two go by just a little bit quicker. I had a college psych professor demonstrate something similar to this, with no rhythm, but with hypnosis. The prof had a hypnotist put him under. The prof’s eyes remained closed and his back to the clock. The hypnotist said when he says go, wait exactly 60 seconds and raise your hand. Then said go. We watched the sweep second hand on the big clock on the wall behind the prof. He raised his hand at exactly 60 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/30 "2012-12-06T17:53:51Z")
I would wager this not so rare. Many a doctor or nurse could do this, I think, even while counting a non-contiguous beat. It’s kind of a standard skill among good conductors. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/31 "2012-12-06T17:57:35Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I saw it happen in concert once, and it was only a matter of seconds. The singer’s foldback monitor… 😕 “Feedback” monitor? ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/32 "2012-12-06T18:13:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > So far as I can find anything approaching a cite, there’s [this](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/07/when-the-beat-goes-off/): > > And this is a professional percussionist playing _to_ a metronome. If I tried to present a study of a random pro basketball player’s abilities at, say, free throws, as being a good representation of ALL pro basketball players, I’d be laughed off the thread. Why are you trying to do the same thing? NOT all drummers are created equal. You know, that’s why young drummers, or musicians in general, practice so much…to beat out the other guys at auditions. There are definite differences in ability, that’s why there are such things as _professional auditions_. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/33 "2012-12-06T18:38:29Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > If I tried to present a study of a random pro basketball player’s abilities at, say, free throws, as being a good representation of ALL pro basketball players, I’d be laughed off the thread. > > Why are you trying to do the same thing? > > NOT all drummers are created equal. You know, that’s why young drummers, or musicians in general, practice so much…to beat out the other guys at auditions. There are definite differences in ability, that’s why there are such things as _professional auditions_. So? If you said you saw a guy hit 1,000 free throws in a row, most people would be skeptical even if you said “Oh yeah, which NCAA championship team did you play for?” or “he’s A PROFESSIONAL!” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/34 "2012-12-06T19:12:00Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Why are you trying to do the same thing? I’m not at all. That time keeping varies among percussionists is self-evident. I think your claim is _extraordinary_ and, as such, requires a healthy dose of skepticism. I literally do not believe what you have outlined is possible. Humans can be very, very good time keepers. They are not perfect (see my study with a percussionist playing TO a metronome) and, what you describe(walking away for an hour and coming back in perfect sync with the metronome) is simply ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_Ferguson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/97f17d/32.png) [@Harvey\_Ferguson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_Ferguson)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/35 "2012-12-06T19:18:43Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > This reminds me of something I read – for some reason I think it was about Doug and Rusty Kershaw… as kids, they would stand in front of their house, start playing a tune, and each would walk around the house in opposite directions, and try to still be in time when they got to the back. I thought it was Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs that did this. Googled it and turns out it was Earl and his brother Horace. According to Larry Perkins in a 1990 interview at IBMA, the Scruggs brothers, Earl and Horace, developed their timing by starting a song then walking around the house and meeting at the point of origin. They did this on their songs until they consistently were in time with each other after their walk. [http://www.flatt-and-scruggs.com/earlbio.html](http://www.flatt-and-scruggs.com/earlbio.html) The Kershaws may have done it too. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/36 "2012-12-06T19:36:02Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I have given you all the information you need to find this guy and ask him yourself. that’s where my obligation ends. Your belief is of no interest to me. You think I would take it from him at his word? It’s just such a laughable claim. You even admitted that “people say” he can do this. Who are these people? Have they witnessed it? Has it happened more than once, and if so, why not document such a fucking amazing feat? ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/37 "2012-12-06T19:40:16Z")
What I find even more amusing is that when you google bill wilder metronome lunch, this thread is the first result. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/38 "2012-12-06T19:58:22Z")
Way back in the day I was in a band with a guy named Brian. Brian is the steadiest drummer I have ever heard. We went in the studio at one point. We recorded a song. For some reason I cannot remember we had to redo the whole damned thing. Before we rerecorded the drum tracks the sound guy wrote down the time on the song. The second take was within a hundredth of a second of the first. This was without a click track as Brian didn’t like the things. Apparently a company called Beatnik has a rhythm analyzer that is used to work on timing. They ran a contest, 500 drummers showed up. The winner got 737 out of a possible 800. I am assuming that they were on the expert level. The device does the following: > [@](#): > > It can test you on any permutation for every note value from quarter to thirty-second notes. Note values include: quarter note; eighth note; eighth note triplets; sixteenth notes; 5 over 1; sixteenth note triplets; 7 over 1; thirty-second notes. > > Select between four skill levels to allow a wider tolerance for timing accuracy and scoring as follows: expert: within one 512th note; high: within three 512th notes; medium: within five 512th notes; low: within seven 512th notes. Now, I am making an assumption. The assumption is that the test was done at 120 beats per minute. 120\*512 =61,440. So the accuracy being measured is 1/1,024 of a second. (61,440 is the total number of time periods per minute, divide by 60 to get the number per second. I think that is right by I am way tired right now and not thinking all that well) The guy who won hit 737 out of 800. Note, I do not know if the drummer is listening to the metronome or not during the contest. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/39 "2012-12-06T20:07:02Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I have given you all the information you need to find this guy and ask him yourself. that’s where my obligation ends. Your belief is of no interest to me. I think the point being made here is that **your** belief is of no interest to those who disagree with your assertion either. I’m confident Bill would be able to keep the spacing between clicks fairly consistent, but its doubtful he would be able to hit the exact sequence in timing with anything better than random chance. I’m sure he would be better at it than others, but your assertion is not believable. You’ve been fed a story and you weren’t credulous enough to call it out as such, others are more skeptical and don’t believe that story. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/40 "2012-12-06T20:28:51Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I think the point being made here is that **your** belief is of no interest to those who disagree with your assertion either. > > I’m confident Bill would be able to keep the spacing between clicks fairly consistent, but its doubtful he would be able to hit the exact sequence in timing with anything better than random chance. > > I’m sure he would be better at it than others, but your assertion is not believable. You’ve been fed a story and you weren’t credulous enough to call it out as such, others are more skeptical and don’t believe that story. Your DEGREE IN PERCUSSION PERFORMANCE is from which university, again? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142.md?page=3)