# How Well Can Humans Maintain a Tempo? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142 "2012-12-06T01:06:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/41 "2012-12-06T20:41:50Z")
> [@Harvey\_Ferguson](#): > > I thought it was Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs that did this. Googled it and turns out it was Earl and his brother Horace. > > According to Larry Perkins in a 1990 interview at IBMA, the Scruggs brothers, Earl and Horace, developed their timing by starting a song then walking around the house and meeting at the point of origin. They did this on their songs until they consistently were in time with each other after their walk. > > [http://www.flatt-and-scruggs.com/earlbio.html](http://www.flatt-and-scruggs.com/earlbio.html) > > The Kershaws may have done it too. No, I think you’re right… I probably saw or heard this sometime around Earl’s death this spring, and just misremembered. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/42 "2012-12-06T21:22:21Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 “Feedback” monitor? Foldback is the term used for speakers aimed toward the musicians so they can hear each other. You knew that and were just razzing me. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/43 "2012-12-06T21:35:09Z")
This is an interesting study. Time estimation became more accurate as the tested duration increased up to 16 minutes. [http://prism.bham.ac.uk/pdf\_files/Lews\_Miall\_PhilTrans\_2009.pdf](http://prism.bham.ac.uk/pdf_files/Lews_Miall_PhilTrans_2009.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/44 "2012-12-06T22:15:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > So far as I can find anything approaching a cite, there’s [this](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/07/when-the-beat-goes-off/): > > And this is a professional percussionist playing _to_ a metronome. To be fair, if the error is randomly distributed, you could have percussionists keep time inspite of this error on each beat. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/45 "2012-12-06T22:41:47Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Foldback is the term used for speakers aimed toward the musicians so they can hear each other. You knew that and were just razzing me. At least where I live, everyone simply refers to them as monitors. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/46 "2012-12-06T23:19:56Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > To be fair, if the error is randomly distributed, you could have percussionists keep time inspite of this error on each beat. This is true, but that’s the best study I could find. I hope the percussionists can keep time with a metronome going. 🙂 My point was that even within a framework with auditory feedback, there is error. I would think that without a constant reminded of where the beats are, the beats would drift even more, although they may sync up more closely when averaged over a long period of time. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/47 "2012-12-07T00:14:00Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > At least where I live, everyone simply refers to them as monitors. Which is pretty funny because where I live they are just called foldbacks. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/48 "2012-12-07T00:29:38Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > He said that it was widely known among Atlanta classical percussionists that Bill could walk away from a metronome that was clicking out a beat, go eat lunch, come back, and still be in time with the metronome. I was skeptical when you said you knew the guy, but now that you say you heard it from some guy who believes the fact is widely known, I’m convinced! :rolleyes: “How do you know when a drummer is at your door?” “The knocking speeds up.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/49 "2012-12-07T01:07:55Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > Not exactly the same thing, but the musicians who invented Kodachrome timed precise developing times in total darkness by playing specific songs in their heads. > [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > I was skeptical when you said you knew the guy, but now that you say you heard it from some guy who believes the fact is widely known, I’m convinced! > :rolleyes: > > “How do you know when a drummer is at your door?” > > “The knocking speeds up.” And he doesn’t know when to come in. ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/50 "2012-12-07T01:15:45Z")
[QUOTE=] “How do you know when a drummer is at your door?” “The knocking speeds up.” [/QUOTE] “The knocking drags and he doesn’t know when to come in.” ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/51 "2012-12-07T04:07:45Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Foldback is the term used for speakers aimed toward the musicians so they can hear each other. You knew that and were just razzing me. Honestly, I wasn’t razzing you. I thought that “feedback” monitors would be a bizarre usage, but who knows? I certainly can appreciate monitors–or their absence. I have played harpsichord with orchestras in one of the largest concert halls in NYC, and it was extremely unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/52 "2012-12-07T05:10:11Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Honestly, I wasn’t razzing you. I thought that “feedback” monitors would be a bizarre usage, but who knows? > > I certainly can appreciate monitors–or their absence. I have played harpsichord with orchestras in one of the largest concert halls in NYC, and it was extremely unpleasant. The Meyerson symphony center in Dallas, where the DSO plays, is extremely difficult to play in. You often simply can’t hear the people on the other side of the stage, and, even when you can, there’s often a big sound delay. People who are closer to you on stage are easy to hear, but someone on the opposite side can be very difficult or impossible to hear. It’s no big deal when the entire orchestra is playing, but if it’s just you and some people on the other side of the stage playing together in a quiet passage, it’s just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![andrewbub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@andrewbub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewbub)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/53 "2012-12-07T06:42:52Z")
the melvins have two drummers playing in sync, so not very hard. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADoQoDfcNU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADoQoDfcNU) ---
**Author:** ![Weirofhermiston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e274bd/32.png) [@Weirofhermiston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirofhermiston)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/54 "2012-12-07T11:43:12Z")
This very skill has become part of our popular culture in the UK through being regularly tested on a popular radio show. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnaXXpbGOsA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnaXXpbGOsA) For my own part, I once left the metronome going on my electric piano. I was out at the shops for nearly forty minutes and when I came back,\* it was still going\*. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/55 "2012-12-07T12:11:35Z")
Cool question. My modest contributions based on the thread as it has developed so far: - Many instrumental musicians believe that singers are the weak link in terms of rhythmic stability. Here’s a joke (original, as far as I know) that a group of musicians I was hanging out with came up with: Q: How does a singer count out 8 beats? A: One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. Sev. En. Eight. It’s a little hard to transfer the joke from spoken English to written, but I think it’s clear. Second observation: I believe the ability to tell the passage of time (for example, to know what time it is) is separate from the ability to keep to a beat. I have always had an excellent sense of time and, when younger, could almost always accurately guess the time to within a few minutes. I thought everyone could do this? However, the ability has faded with age (I am 54). I have read, somewhere, that this is normal. My sense of time is still fairly good, but no where near as accurate as it was when I was 20. Self test: what time is it now? I’m going to say…6:20 pm. ::Looks at watch:: HAH. It’s 7:10 pm. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/56 "2012-12-07T12:40:15Z")
I play bass and I think I keep the beat quite well with a band. I usually have stereos playing in My workroom and when I for example go to the kitchen to get a drink, I can’t hear the music, but it still keeps playing in My head. When I go back a minute later, I’m always off. If I like the song, I’m ahead, if I don’t, I’m always dragging. The speed of the song doesn’t seem to matter. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/57 "2012-12-07T13:27:23Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Cool question. My modest contributions based on the thread as it has developed so far: > > - Many instrumental musicians believe that singers are the weak link in terms of rhythmic stability. Here’s a joke (original, as far as I know) that a group of musicians I was hanging out with came up with: > > Q: How does a singer count out 8 beats? > A: > One. > Two. > Three. > Four. > Five. > Six. > Sev. > En. > Eight. > > It’s a little hard to transfer the joke from spoken English to written, but I think it’s clear. I’ve heard it thusly: How does a singer count a 7/8 beat? One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. Sev. En. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. Sev. En. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/58 "2012-12-07T14:45:44Z")
> [@andrewbub](#): > > the melvins have two drummers playing in sync, so not very hard. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADoQoDfcNU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADoQoDfcNU) A lot of bands have multiple percussionists. Playing in sync with each other is not unusual. In fact, a group of musicians wouldn’t work if they couldn’t play in time to each other. Read the second paragraph of the OP to get what we’re trying to get at. If the two Melvins drummers were playing without the ability to hear each other, the other members of the band, or any external time keeping source (whether audio or visual or whatnot), _that_ would be the sort of thing we’re wondering about. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/59 "2012-12-07T14:57:12Z")
It’s funny how singers get the butt-end of rhythm jokes; it’s of course because the metrical responsibility is on the instrumentalists, who seem to be the most catty. That being said :), I will always remember a recital performance in music school. On stage, mind you, the singer got off a beat. While we got into CYA mode musically, the crazy bitch started wildly beating time at me so the audience would know it was _I_ who was the real culprit. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142/60 "2012-12-07T15:12:22Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > It’s funny how singers get the butt-end of rhythm jokes; it’s of course because the metrical responsibility is on the instrumentalists, who seem to be the most catty. > > That being said :), I will always remember a recital performance in music school. On stage, mind you, the singer got off a beat. While we got into CYA mode musically, the crazy bitch started wildly beating time at me so the audience would know it was _I_ who was the real culprit. In high school, when I played piano for the musical production of _Pippin_, there was this one (thankfully short) song (“Welcome Home, Son”) that was in 11/8 and 5/4, with maybe one bar of 4/4 thrown in there. Lucikly, we had a very stripped down “orchestra” (bass, piano, drums, guitar), and on that song it was just the piano playing. The song was a complete tightrope walk, and there were two different casts, so two different singers with two completely different ways of phrasing the music. Nobody ever came close to getting it right, but it was fun trying to save the singers from themselves. Sometimes I had to throw in an extra beat or vamp over a chord, hoping the singer will get to the next notes. Other times, it was leaping ahead over notes or even measures to “catch” the singer. I’m still not entirely sure how I managed it. Speaking of rhythmic tricks of the sort, [this Harry Connick, Jr. video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw) is one of my favorites. The French audience is clapping on the 1 & 3, which is kind of verboten in jazz/blues/rock music. So he sneakily inserts an extra beat a few bars after beginning his solo, and turns the clapping around to 2 & 4. I always get a kick out of that video. Clever quick thinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-can-humans-maintain-a-tempo/643142.md?page=4)