# how well do East Asians identify ethnic groups by facial features? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 16, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282 "2010-04-16T00:52:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/21 "2010-04-16T13:28:32Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > We certainly can. I was in Italy earlier this year, and I’m now in Poland, and it’s obvious that Italians and Poles have different facial features. I couldn’t identify them with certainty either, but I definitely could do better than chance, given a random set of Italian and Polish faces. But then again, I didn’t say anything about Italy, did I? I wouldn’t argue that northern Europeans and southern Europeans can’t often be differentiated; it’s why I deliberately avoided that choice. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/22 "2010-04-16T13:28:42Z")
My Chinese wife has been mistaken for Korean and Vietnamese on several occasions. One time we had a group of Asian businessmen visiting my workplace. My Chinese co-worker swore up and down that they couldn’t possibly be Chinese and that they were Korean…at least until she heard them speaking Mandarin. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/23 "2010-04-16T13:31:56Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > In my experience, not very well in China. > > I have a Filipino-American friend who is obviously and unmistakably Filipino. She’s got a short round body with huge breasts, darkish skin, and exactly the sorts of features you’d find on a Filipino. She looks nothing at all like a Chinese person- the eyes, lips, skin, body, etc are completely different. Not to mention her body language is utterly and completely American. What are the features you’d expect to have a Filipino to have? That I’ve never gotten. I mean, I get the average features but I can’t look at someone’s face and get as specific as some do. Also, I’ve heard people say that about the body language, but what is it about it? I’ve tried to observe my own body language and nothing about it says American to me but I’m sure foreigners would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/24 "2010-04-16T13:41:34Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > It’s odd, really… if someone said they could tell the difference between a French person and a Polish person on just facial features alone, we’d consider that completely absurd, because it is. But some people swear up and down that they have developed some mysterious sense that enables them to distinguish Japanese from Korean from Han Chinese on facial features alone. It’s all anecdotes, cultural cues, and confirmation bias. The difference is that the different European populations have not been as genetically isolated from each other. The Japanese, for example, are thought to be descendants of primarily one group that migrated there 30,000 years ago, the Jamon, mixed later to some lesser degree to later migrations, possibly from Korea. Is it surprising that they should look a bit different than Han Chinese who have been genetically separate for those tens of thousands of years? Demonstrating that I can’t tell them apart proves nothing - I can’t tell the languages apart either; does that mean native speakers cannot and that they are the same? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/25 "2010-04-16T13:44:57Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Here’s a [link](http://alllooksame.com/quiz.php?tid=1) to a test where you can test your abilities if you’re sure that you can tell the difference. I was curious enough to click on the link (and register, as required). The first 4 pictures seemed like jokes, and I gave up. Despite my slow Internet, I’d have completed the test if there was any reason to believe that the images were prepared in any statistically valid way. Instead I’m guessing it was more “There are some funny-looking teens! Let’s take some funny photos.” ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/26 "2010-04-16T14:13:30Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > But then again, I didn’t say anything about Italy, did I? I wouldn’t argue that northern Europeans and southern Europeans can’t often be differentiated; it’s why I deliberately avoided that choice. I’m not even talking about southern Italians who clearly look different from northern Europeans. I was in Bologna, in northern Italy. The people there aren’t exactly the Mediterranean type, for the most part, but they’re definitely distinguishable from Slavs. And I’ll agree with **CRSP** that French people also have distinctive features. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/27 "2010-04-16T14:26:21Z")
[quote=“DSeid, post:24, topic:536282”] > [@](#): > > Demonstrating that I can’t tell them apart proves nothing - I can’t tell the languages apart either; does that mean native speakers cannot and that they are the same? I don’t assert that they are the same. I am asserting only that facially they appear the same. There is no more reason for a Korean and Chinese to look different than a Frenchman and a German, yet some people go on as if they possess some kind of ethnic radar that Asians themselves don’t even claim to have. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/28 "2010-04-16T16:23:42Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I was curious enough to click on the link (and register, as required). The first 4 pictures seemed like jokes, and I gave up. Despite my slow Internet, I’d have completed the test if there was any reason to believe that the images were prepared in any statistically valid way. Instead I’m guessing it was more “There are some funny-looking teens! Let’s take some funny photos.” That should not matter if you believe that you can distinguish Asians on facial features alone. Of course they’re dressed modern; they were pulled from the streets of New York. After all, It wouldn’t be much of a test if all the Japanese people were wearing yukata. Go ahead, try it. Even with blind guessing there’s still a 50% chance you could get more than half of the answers correct. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/29 "2010-04-16T16:37:12Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Japanese tend to have bigger rounder eyes. This is probably due to depictions of women in popular Japanese entertainment, where having big cartoon eyes is seen as desirable. Cosmetic surgery, as well as the use of eye glue to give the appearance of larger eyes, is more prevalent in Japan and spreading throughout the rest of East Asia. I don’t believe that Japanese eyes are significantly different from Chinese/Korean eyes. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/30 "2010-04-16T17:03:54Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Go ahead, try it. Even with blind guessing there’s still a 50% chance you could get more than half of the answers correct. There’s three possible answers for each question (Chinese/Japanese/Korean), so getting half the answers correct (9/18) would be pretty good for blind guessing. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/31 "2010-04-16T17:49:43Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > This is probably due to depictions of women in popular Japanese entertainment, where having big cartoon eyes is seen as desirable. Cosmetic surgery, as well as the use of eye glue to give the appearance of larger eyes, is more prevalent in Japan and spreading throughout the rest of East Asia. Are you sure? I had understood that cosmetic surgery was far more prevalent in Korea. Personally I am sceptical of people’s (sincerely-held) belief that they can differentiate Japanese, Korean and Han Chinese people by facial features. I understand why they think they can do it. The starting point is a stereotypical mental image of a Japanese person, a Korean person and a Chinese person. Then it seems obvious that one can tell these apart. The problem is that most Japanese people do not look like your stereotype. And some Korean people do. To take an example that may be a bit closer to home for many of us - can you tell an Irish person from a Spaniard? Of course (you think, conjuring up a mental image of two faces) - the Irish person has fair or reddish skin, freckles, maybe light-coloured or red hair. The Spaniard is shorter, darker-skinned, has black hair, more “Mediterranean” facial features… But these images have little or nothing to do with reality. I’m Irish, but if I walked down a street in Spain, nobody would notice I was foreign until I opened my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/32 "2010-04-16T19:50:38Z")
Most people who guess ethnicities wrong either haven’t seen a whole lot of Asian people, or only have experience with one flavor of them. If you are in an environment that is predominantly Asian and has an equal mix of Asian races, you develop a pretty good sense of who’s what. I will agree with **Ishaw** that identification’s not based on a single facial feature, but the face and appearance as a whole, including hairstyle and clothes style. Some of us don’t have typical Korean or Japanese features (whatever those are) and simply look generically Asian, and for jerks like us you need to consider the entire package. Even then you’ll probably guess wrong. ---
**Author:** ![toodlepip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@toodlepip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toodlepip)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/33 "2010-04-16T23:11:53Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > But then again, I didn’t say anything about Italy, did I? I wouldn’t argue that northern Europeans and southern Europeans can’t often be differentiated; it’s why I deliberately avoided that choice. As a Norwegian, let me assure you that the average Norwegian, Swede and Dane look noticeably different. That doesn’t mean I could identify with certainty the nationality of any given individual, many of us don’t fit the stereotypes, but I can do a lot better than random guessing. When you see them in groups, the nationality is pretty much always identifiable. And those are populations that are closely related, interbred and intermingled. Faroese and Icelanders are more distinctive (Iceland seems to have only one design of nose, for instance), as are Finns. The same goes for the rest of Europe. While I can’t differentiate between Slovaks and Poles, for instance, my Czech colleague would certainly tell you she can. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/34 "2010-04-17T00:12:48Z")
[quote=“Cosmic Relief, post:27, topic:536282”] > [@DSeid](#): > > I don’t assert that they are the same. I am asserting only that facially they appear the same. There is no more reason for a Korean and Chinese to look different than a Frenchman and a German, yet some people go on as if they possess some kind of ethnic radar that Asians themselves don’t even claim to have. First, I have told you clearly exactly why there _is_ more reason for different Asian subpopulations to appear different from each other than for French or German populations: a much longer period of relatively much more segregated gene pools. Second, several Asian posters _have_claimed that they can tell the difference and anecdotally I know of many others who say “Of course I can usually tell them apart.” Your claim that such is not claimed by “Asians themselves” seems to be unsubstantiated - unless you have some data to support the claim that most don’t think they can. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/35 "2010-04-17T02:01:34Z")
But the question remains, are they really recognizing facial structure, or are they relying on other clues? I was surprised in the Philippines when I could easily pick out Chinese tourists from the (huge numbers) of Koreans. But that was entirely on how they walk and interact with a crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/36 "2010-04-17T02:21:43Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > What are the features you’d expect to have a Filipino to have? That I’ve never gotten. I mean, I get the average features but I can’t look at someone’s face and get as specific as some do. At the risk of offending any Filipinos: They are extremely short- I haven’t met many over 5’4. Darker-skinned than East Asians. Soft, round features, low nasal bridge, full lips. I think one of the biggest giveaways is that Filipinos have Asian facial features, but unlike most East Asians, they have double eyelids. > [@hibernicus](#): > > To take an example that may be a bit closer to home for many of us - can you tell an Irish person from a Spaniard? Of course (you think, conjuring up a mental image of two faces) - the Irish person has fair or reddish skin, freckles, maybe light-coloured or red hair. The Spaniard is shorter, darker-skinned, has black hair, more “Mediterranean” facial features… > > But these images have little or nothing to do with reality. I’m Irish, but if I walked down a street in Spain, nobody would notice I was foreign until I opened my mouth. Depends on what kind of Irish you are. If you’re the swarthy type, you’d fit right in. But tall, pale people with light eyes are pretty rare in Spain. In the south, especially, you can spot a _guiri_ (Northern foreigner) at a hundred meters. And back to the topic, I remember taking that “alllooksame” quiz several years ago and I scored about a 70% accuracy, which is much better than the 33% I would have scored if I had guessed at random. I also remember thinking that the quiz was not fair, because so many of the people were making silly expressions that distorted their facial features. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/37 "2010-04-17T02:41:50Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But the question remains, are they really recognizing facial structure, or are they relying on other clues? A fair question. Since even my limited experience Western eye can tell the difference between a prototypical Japanese face and a Chinese one, I assume that it is the former. That’s one anecdote. But of course all anyone has brought here is anecdotes. My issue was with the statements made that it made no sense for there to be differences and that Asians themselves say they cannot. Those are both not true. Which as you rightly point out does not prove they can, just because they claim they can and because it makes sense that they can. Not without fail, as pointed out some Irishmen look like swarthy Spaniards and some Han Chinese look Korean, but pretty good on average. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/38 "2010-04-17T10:03:37Z")
[Quote=Cosmic Relief] Here’s a link to a test where you can test your abilities if you’re sure that you can tell the difference. [/quote] I took the test, and I got a 7/18. I’d say this test only shows that it’s impossible to tell what ethnicity an East-Asian is if they are heavily westernized, you only see their face, and you basically have no other information. Also, I almost flunked psych-stat, but I know damn well that 18 questions isn’t nearly enough to get a statistically valid edge over random chance. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/39 "2010-04-17T10:12:05Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Here’s a [link](http://alllooksame.com/quiz.php?tid=1) to a test where you can test your abilities if you’re sure that you can tell the difference. And what evidence do you have that this test uses a random sample of images, in large enough quantity to draw statistically significant conclusions, rather than, say, a small set of images deliberately chosen to be as ambiguous as possible? ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282/40 "2010-04-17T10:29:14Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > I guess this is two questions: > > 1. how well do Chinese, Japanese and Koreans manage to recognize faces as belonging to one of these three categories > > 2. how well do Chinese recognize faces as characteristic of different major regions in China (if that is even possible in the first place within the scope of the self-described Han people, not the self-described minorities) > > Has this stuff been examined either rigorously empirically or at least on the level of “conventional wisdom” i.e. what they informally believe about their ability to recognize groups by facial features? Not very well in my experience. My family’s from Mexico. Yet, I am mistaken for Japanese…by Japanese people. And I don’t mean people born here, but by people from there. I don’t know how you latinize it, but I’ve had people come up to me in stores asking, “Can you help me?” Also, when I used to substitute teach in schools with high Japanese enrollment, student would try to speak to me in Japanese and many of them were immigrants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-well-do-east-asians-identify-ethnic-groups-by-facial-features/536282.md?page=3)