# How were first animals domesticated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2015, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301 "2015-07-05T09:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/41 "2015-07-07T22:04:19Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I could be mistaken (since it’s been a while since I’ve read the book), but I don’t recall it claiming the lack of wheat and rice as a disadvantage for the Native American civilizations. Maize and amaranth were just about as good and the potato probably better. What the Americas lacked was a large draft animal. But they did as well as they could with this handicap. > To put some recent science into this discussion, there was a report that the domestication of dogs was as long ago as 27,000 to 40,000 years ago. [link](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150521133626.htm) IIRC: Maize was particularly difficult to domesticate, and yet (with work and extensive acculturation?) it was ultimately disseminated widely across central and north America. It’s protein profile is inferior to wheat and especially to pulses. Diamond implied that maize got such traction because it was the best they had, not because it was great. I don’t remember much about the discussion of amaranth in the book. I remember some mention of quinoa (first I’d ever heard of it, back then), which was a great protein source, but unpalatable without a lot of preparation (and maybe difficult to cultivate?). ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/42 "2015-07-07T23:36:20Z")
[http://www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2\_exotic\_animals\_summary.php](http://www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2_exotic_animals_summary.php) If you’re thinking of trapping a wild wolf for a pet you need to know what the law is in your state. I hope this is not what you’re planning on doing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/43 "2015-07-07T23:44:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Also, in general, I don’t know where the dairy animals fit into this. Were wild sheep tame enough to milk? Would an aurochs cow stand still for that? They were probably originally domesticated as meat animals. But after they had been domesticated and were bred to tolerate human contact, the herdsmen could expand the product line for things like milk and wool. And for things like riding, pulling plows and wagons, and carrying loads on their backs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/44 "2015-07-08T00:25:50Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > To put some recent science into this discussion, there was a report that the domestication of dogs was as long ago as 27,000 to 40,000 years ago. [link](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150521133626.htm) Not surprising if you think about it, but one reason it’s been so hard to date the origin of dogs is that it appears dogs and other canids interbred at various times and in various places, so there isn’t a clean divergence in the lineage. Which, as it terns out, is not so different from us!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/45 "2015-07-08T06:29:19Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > IIRC: Maize was particularly difficult to domesticate, and yet (with work and extensive acculturation?) it was ultimately disseminated widely across central and north America. It’s protein profile is inferior to wheat and especially to pulses. Diamond implied that maize got such traction because it was the best they had, not because it was great. Pulses were domesticated in the Americas too. Lima beans, in fact, were independently domesticated in Central America and the Andes. But maize couldn’t be that bad, or it wouldn’t have survived as a valuable crop after the introduction of Old World crops. > [@](#): > > I don’t remember much about the discussion of amaranth in the book. I remember some mention of quinoa (first I’d ever heard of it, back then), which was a great protein source, but unpalatable without a lot of preparation (and maybe difficult to cultivate?). I don’t think he mentioned amaranth at all, but I understand it was a major food crop in Mesoamerica. Its cultivation declined under Spanish rule and there’s some speculation this was a deliberate suppression because the plants were used in Aztec religious ceremonies. So it became kind of a forgotten crop until relatively recently. It’s still not getting the attention that its cousin quinoa gets. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/46 "2015-07-08T22:32:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Pulses were domesticated in the Americas too. Lima beans, in fact, were independently domesticated in Central America and the Andes. > > \*\*But maize couldn’t be that bad, or it wouldn’t have survived as a valuable crop after the introduction of Old World crops. \*\* > > I don’t think he mentioned amaranth at all, but I understand it was a major food crop in Mesoamerica. Its cultivation declined under Spanish rule and there’s some speculation this was a deliberate suppression because the plants were used in Aztec religious ceremonies. So it became kind of a forgotten crop until relatively recently. It’s still not getting the attention that its cousin quinoa gets. my bolding Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/47 "2015-07-08T23:58:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not surprising if you think about it, but one reason it’s been so hard to date the origin of dogs is that it appears dogs and other canids interbred at various times and in various places, so there isn’t a clean divergence in the lineage. Which, as it terns out, is not so different from us!! 🙂 The current edition of _Scientific American_ has [an in-depth article addressing the date of domestication of dogs](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wolf-became-dog/). They cite several studies, including the 27,000-40,000 YA “Taimyr wolf bone” analysis mentioned above. If I am interpreting it correctly, they conclude that several studies that appear to be solid science have given us wildly conflicting answers. 😛 A giant study is underway, more comprehensive than any before, and the authors urge us to await its publication. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/48 "2015-07-09T12:45:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That seems unlikely. If a herd of animals were living close to humans then you would expect the animals that were unafraid of humans to be the first ones hunted and eaten, thereby removing those human-tolerant genes from the herd. Contact between a wild herd and a human tribe of hunters would normally result in the herd becoming more afraid of humans as time went on. And the megafauna extinction in places like America and Australia supports this. > > So the only way a species of herd animals would be bred to tolerate human contact is if the humans were controlling their breeding. It appears possession of herd animals has to proceed domestication. I’m not so sure. When i read about the nomadic peoples who live with reindeer, I was struck that reindeer were only barely domestic. Basically, these giant herds wandered around on their traditional migration routes, and packs of humans claimed ownership this or that part of the herd. I bet that’s how herd animal got domesticated. People followed the herds, and took to selectively culling the least desirable animals, and perhaps castrating the less desirable males until they got around to eating then. > [@dtilque](#): > > … > But maize couldn’t be that bad, or it wouldn’t have survived as a valuable crop after the introduction of Old World crops. … I think maize produces a lot of calories per acre. It’s still not super popular outside if the Americas, though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/49 "2015-07-09T13:15:32Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > The current edition of _Scientific American_ has [an in-depth article addressing the date of domestication of dogs](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wolf-became-dog/). They cite several studies, including the 27,000-40,000 YA “Taimyr wolf bone” analysis mentioned above. > > If I am interpreting it correctly, they conclude that several studies that appear to be solid science have given us wildly conflicting answers. 😛 > > A giant study is underway, more comprehensive than any before, and the authors urge us to await its publication. Yep. Read that article a few weeks ago, which is where I got my info from! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/50 "2015-07-09T14:04:52Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think maize produces a lot of calories per acre. It’s still not super popular outside if the Americas, though. It’s _huge_ in Southern Africa, having largely replaced the pre-colonial sorghums and millets, and become _the_ staple summer rainfall grain 9and hence the staple grain for most of the region). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301/51 "2015-07-09T15:31:18Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m not so sure. When i read about the nomadic peoples who live with reindeer, I was struck that reindeer were only barely domestic. Basically, these giant herds wandered around on their traditional migration routes, and packs of humans claimed ownership this or that part of the herd. I bet that’s how herd animal got domesticated. People followed the herds, and took to selectively culling the least desirable animals, and perhaps castrating the less desirable males until they got around to eating then. I thought of ordinary deer in this sense. The young have little fear of humans, and the adults don’t have that great fear as seen in suburban areas plagued by those antlered vermin. I’m still see a problem with humans who don’t understand the concept and benefits of domestication doing this and not just eating the deer they’ve domesticated. Reindeer bring up my question about dairy production though. Lapps milk their reindeer, so possibly that benefit was seen early in the development of domesticated animals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-first-animals-domesticated/724301.md?page=2)