# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2082 "2015-05-19T22:05:51Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There’s no inherent reason it must make sense, it was merely an assumption that it made sense when I started trying to solve it. At that tiome I thought there was a high probability (bordering on certainty) that I was wrong and it didn’t make sense. I thought as I started trying to solve it there would be no patterns and I’d have to give up. Don’t take me wrong here; the original writing almostr had to have a lot of internal consistency even if it was a book off magic as I was told. One doesn’t have only mothers and fathers nor are they fathers of their own father. This lack of consistency I thought then was largely translation error. Egyptologists believe there are numerous errors in the text and at that time I had no reason to doubt them. Between illiterate authors and translators unfamiliar with the writing it was simply possible that the inconsistencies would vanish. > > But as I worked more and more of these non sequiturs and inconsistencies appeared. And more and more they then disappeared as the word meanings were solved. > > Why would you expect it not to make sense? It is not unreasonable to begin from the default assumption that a thing is what it appears to be. These writings appear to be a rambling collection of religious and poetic mythology. > [@](#): > > There’san Egyptological explanation for the reason this stuff is utter nonsense. They have an explanation for everything because this is how confirmation bias works. No matter who does it the evidence is filtered, massaged, and interpreted to fit our beliefs or models. The major problem with Egyptology is that so much of the physical evidence has to be simply held aside as being irrelrevant and the bulk of what is accepted is believed to represent magic and religion. This is necessary toi make a self consistent paradigm with the known evidence. In this case Egyptologists simply believe in the “many origins” theory. According to this the gods and their parts arose in many different places and times so each time one is mentioned it has a different meaning. > > It’s a shame the word “ramp” doesn’t appear and that they can’t account for all the sand though. It’s really a shame that none of the evidence fits the paradigm. I often call it the “teflon paradigm” because nothing will stick to it. I also call it “frankenstein’s paradigm” not because it’s so scary (it is), but because all the facts have to be bolted or nailed to it. > > I don’t think it’s terribly important if it “has” to make sense. But the fact is that it does make sense and I seriously doubt anything can be reflective of logic and reality uinless it’s made by the hand of God or man. It seems more likely people created the logic of the PT and whether this was at the hand of God(s) or not is a question for someone else since I don’t know how to study it. The words geyser and pulley don’t appear there either, you say they do, but you’re just making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2083 "2015-05-20T00:58:48Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It is not unreasonable to begin from the default assumption that a thing is what it appears to be. These writings appear to be a rambling collection of religious and poetic mythology. “What it appears to be” simply doesn’t hold up upon closer scrutiny. “What it appears to be” has proven incapable of leading to any understanding of the Egyptians or their work. What it really appears to be if you look at it closely is ritual and not incantation. I don’t know how they missed this obvious fact except that they are understanding it solely in terms of the book of the dead. Since it is not “what it appears to be” perhaps it has nothing to do with religion and magic either. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2084 "2015-05-20T01:51:22Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > “What it appears to be” simply doesn’t hold up upon closer scrutiny. “What it appears to be” has proven incapable of leading to any understanding of the Egyptians or their work. Piffle, the reality is that [PT texts and Book of the dead texts were carved and painted in coffins of kings and less important ancient egyptians](https://books.google.com/books?id=LAdyuWkUHM4C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=the+sarcophagus+of+Amenhotep+II+pyramid+text&source=bl&ots=QCUu_Rl5A3&sig=XN9y0ntwyK7EaEzWBRIuvhfDp8A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k-VbVeSPG4ScgwT26IDoBg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20sarcophagus%20of%20Amenhotep%20II%20pyramid%20text&f=false). [The context is clearly about what to do when going to face judgement and about the dangers in the afterlife](http://egyptopia.com/The-Sarcophagus-of-King-Amenhotep-II-%281424-1397-BC%29_30_1166_1104_en.html). It is not related to geysers or the pie in the sky contraptions you imagined. > [@cladking](#): > > What it really appears to be if you look at it closely is ritual and not incantation. I don’t know how they missed this obvious fact except that they are understanding it solely in terms of the book of the dead. > > Since it is not “what it appears to be” perhaps it has nothing to do with religion and magic either. The evidence found in many tombs and burial sarcophagi is that they had everything to do with religion. Your geyser being used to build the pyramid is what remains in the land of magic. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2085 "2015-05-20T01:59:15Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Pyramids are very thin on one end, get MUCH larger in the middle, and are thin again at the other end. This is my theory, which is mine. You could put two of them together, base to base, and get an 8-sided die, so you could play Dungeons and Dragons with, like, real Titans. Just remember to roll the dice away from Cairo, 'cause mom will get mad if you wipe out the city, the way you did Sodom when you knocked over the candlestick. And they’re still talking about Noah and the spilled Dr. Pepper. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2086 "2015-05-20T02:08:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And they’re still talking about Noah and the spilled Dr. Pepper. Heh, you reminded me that somewhere in a discount store I saw bible themed Noah sodas, with flavors like NOAH’S RHINO ROOTBEER, PORCUPINE PINEAPPLE SODA, COUGAR COLA. With a great jingle line: FLOOD YOUR THIRST! ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2087 "2015-05-20T02:17:20Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > My understanding is that there are no other known “languages” concurrent with the PT other than Sumerian because no other language had writing and any media that survived. Nope. [Akkadian is contemporary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language#History_and_writing) with both Old Egyptian and Sumerian. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2088 "2015-05-20T02:24:02Z")
[Timeline of written languages](http://www.ancientscripts.com/ws_timeline.html)…as always, claddy’s ‘understanding’ is based on his often sketchy understanding and obsessive focus that excludes everything not based on his gut or his interpretation of other peoples translations. ETA: And, of course, this is just what archeologists have FOUND…doesn’t mean there weren’t any before this, simply that they have either been lost or just not found yet. New discoveries, contrary to the King O’ Clad’s assertions, happen continuously (though, granted, that whole war throughout the ME and Arab Spring thingy has put some dampers on discovery lately) and the timeline seems to always get pushed back with new discoveries. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2089 "2015-05-20T03:12:11Z")
**claddy** , I know you think you are real knowledgeable and smart, but this thread–and your years-long online campaign–has gone on and on with you not getting the slightest clue that your theory might have flaws. There’s a very good reason that, of the several billion people on the internet, only you understand and accept it, and your endless defense of it is looking more and more pathetic. Since you seem incapable of being embarrassed I’ll do you a favor and be embarrassed for you: :o And here’s me suddenly realizing for you that you have wasted nine years on it: :eek: :smack: Life is too short to waste it on nonsense. Get medication for your compulsion. Find another hobby; classes in ancient hist…okay, maybe art classes could be a fun way use your creativity. The rest of you should leave the poor man alone. He won’t change, and it makes you look like bullies. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2090 "2015-05-20T03:52:00Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > **claddy** , I know you think you are real knowledgeable and smart, but this thread–and your years-long online campaign–has gone on and on with you not getting the slightest clue that your theory might have flaws. There’s a very good reason that, of the several billion people on the internet, only you understand and accept it, and your endless defense of it is looking more and more pathetic. Since you seem incapable of being embarrassed I’ll do you a favor and be embarrassed for you: :o > > And here’s me suddenly realizing for you that you have wasted nine years on it: :eek: :smack: > > Life is too short to waste it on nonsense. Get medication for your compulsion. Find another hobby; classes in ancient hist…okay, maybe art classes could be a fun way use your creativity. > > The rest of you should leave the poor man alone. He won’t change, and it makes you look like bullies. I think we’re giving him exactly what he wants - attention. He’s not a, er, [mythological caprophobic Scandinavian creature](http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/forest-troll-25301214.jpg) - if he was, he’d have made his post and fled, or been far more obnoxious in his responses - but he has a similar motivation, I think. The criticism might feed a sense of a-lonely-voice-crying-out-in-the-wilderness. And there’s been enough of interest in the thread that I’m still willing to check it every day. Ignoring the King o’ Clad might actually be bullying. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2091 "2015-05-20T04:47:19Z")
**Cladking** , can we set aside the geyser issue for a moment? There’s something else I hope you’ll clarify. You’ve said many times that the evidence shows stones were hauled straight up the sides of the pyramids, one step at a time. Do you mean evidence from your interpretation of the PT or are you saying there is physical evidence that this was the method of construction? If you do mean there is physical evidence, would you mind describing it as clearly and succinctly as you can? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2092 "2015-05-20T04:51:41Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > . . . The rest of you should leave the poor man alone. He won’t change, and it makes you look like bullies. “What we have here is failure to communicate.” This thread has long since lost any conceivable purpose. **cladking** doesn’t use language the same way the rest of us do, and has no intention (or ability) to provide any evidence for his fantasies. If such a thing were up for a vote, I’d vote to close the thread. It’s just rowing in circles at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2093 "2015-05-20T05:39:17Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > “What it appears to be” simply doesn’t hold up upon closer scrutiny. “What it appears to be” has proven incapable of leading to any understanding of the Egyptians or their work. Rambling poetic mythological bullshit will tend to do that. You’re assuming there _IS_ a coherent, meaningful message in it. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2094 "2015-05-20T07:22:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Rambling poetic mythological bullshit will tend to do that. You’re assuming there _IS_ a coherent, meaningful message in it. No doubt that, to the Egyptians, it _was_ meaningful and coherent. But in **Cladkings** eyes that would mean that they were Stinky Footed Bumpkins. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2095 "2015-05-20T13:00:39Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Rambling poetic mythological bullshit will tend to do that. You’re assuming there _IS_ a coherent, meaningful message in it. It’s like Seventies art-rock. What kind of recreational medications did the Egyptians have? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2096 "2015-05-20T13:15:20Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > No doubt that, to the Egyptians, it _was_ meaningful and coherent. Sure, in the sense that there’s still a market today for rambling Rambling poetic mythological stuff, and the consumers of same don’t necessarily consider it bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2097 "2015-05-20T13:43:53Z")
> [@Clark\_K](#): > > **Cladking** , can we set aside the geyser issue for a moment? There’s something else I hope you’ll clarify. > > You’ve said many times that the evidence shows stones were hauled straight up the sides of the pyramids, one step at a time. Do you mean evidence from your interpretation of the PT or are you saying there is physical evidence that this was the method of construction? > > If you do mean there is physical evidence, would you mind describing it as clearly and succinctly as you can? I’ve touched on all this before so briefly; All the great pyramids appear to be stepped pyramids. Steps must play some integral role in how they were constructed since it required extra effort to build the steps and these steps weaken the structure. There are visible vertical and horizontal lines on “all” the great pyramids shows that all forces that operated on it occurred in the horizontal and vertical planes. This is only consistent with pulling or pushing the stones straight up the side and “pushing” can be ruled out logically and mostly ruled out evidentially. G1 is shown by the gravimetric scan to be a five step pyramid. Ancient reports suggested they were built in steps. Pulling stones straight upis the most direct, fastest, easiest, and most logical means to lift stones using ancient technology. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2098 "2015-05-20T13:59:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Since you seem incapable of being embarrassed I’ll do you a favor and be embarrassed for you: :o Thank you for your consideration and concern. Obviously I’d be pretty embarrassed if I believed I were intelligent and having the proper beliefs were important. But if this whole thing has taught me anything it’s taught me that everybody has his own unique set of beliefs. I used to race to threads because I feared someone would beat me to posting the punchline but this appears to be impossible because everyone is on a completely different page and we no longer have the playbook we were born with. If I have anything to truly be embarrassed about it’s that it has taken me so long. This highlights what a poor researcher or “scholar” I am. A real scholar could have done all this in a year and a good Egytologist in a few months. But I spend a lot of time trying to recruit help by means of proving the theory to attract a little interest. Talking about it helps me sort it out in my mind and input has often proven valuable or pointed to new leads. Even if I’m wrong about everything (how curious from my perspective I’m the only one who might be wrong), it’s still interesting that somehow the world appears to fit such an arcane, obscure, and wet pattern. Right or wrong water really is life itself whether your culture is in a desert or a swamp. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2099 "2015-05-20T14:13:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Rambling poetic mythological bullshit will tend to do that. You’re assuming there _IS_ a coherent, meaningful message in it. I’ve read just about everything there is to read from Shakespeare to computer code and never once found anything at all from the hand of man that didn’t make sense. Sure, I’ve seen word soup but you can usually pick a few ideas out of it. Are you suggesrting that each of the authors of the PT were loopy enough to compose word soup and that each of them wrote the same kind of word soup? This sounds like another language to me. I was once tasked with designing a computer controlled operating system for a small manufacturing plant. It was a simple enough system but there were numerous processes being controlled so the programming itself was a little more complex. My boss insisted that I have the programmers write up the instructions for the operators rather than doing it myself. They sent this document to me and I didn’t recognize it. I saw that the subject concerned the operating system because there were numerous key words related to the system but the entire thing appeared to be some form of word soup. It required twelve readings before I suddenly understood the whole thing at once. The only way to describe it was a computer program set to English. This is exactly what the PT looks like. A bunch of key words and a “computer program” set to English. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2100 "2015-05-20T14:27:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > [Timeline of written languages](http://www.ancientscripts.com/ws_timeline.html)…as always, claddy’s ‘understanding’ is based on his often sketchy understanding and obsessive focus that excludes everything not based on his gut or his interpretation of other peoples translations. > > ETA: And, of course, this is just what archeologists have FOUND…doesn’t mean there weren’t any before this, simply that they have either been lost or just not found yet. New discoveries, contrary to the King O’ Clad’s assertions, happen continuously (though, granted, that whole war throughout the ME and Arab Spring thingy has put some dampers on discovery lately) and the timeline seems to always get pushed back with new discoveries. I’m sure I mentioned linguists don’t agree with me. Obviously if they knew there was a “Tower of Babel” you wouldn’t have heard it from me first. There really isn’t much support for the concept that these languages were continuous through 2000 BC. Their understanding of these ancioent languages is based on things that are incomprehensible like the PT. They only have the vocabulary to tie ancient Egyptian to more modern Egyptian. It’s the same with other languages. There’s simply no way to show that the language didn’t change unless you have something that can be understood from the earlier timeand this means you have to be able to answer simple questions about what the authors are believed to be talking about. Just seeing a bunch of key words means nothing because the vocabulary didn’t change. People have little clue just how weakly some of the soft sciences are founded on actual evidence. We all display a rush to judgement caused by seeing what we expect and confirmation bias. When there is complete agreement it’s called “science” and is usually wrong when it’s also outside of experimental results. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2101 "2015-05-20T14:33:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Piffle, the reality is that [PT texts and Book of the dead texts were carved and painted in coffins of kings and less important ancient egyptians](https://books.google.com/books?id=LAdyuWkUHM4C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=the+sarcophagus+of+Amenhotep+II+pyramid+text&source=bl&ots=QCUu_Rl5A3&sig=XN9y0ntwyK7EaEzWBRIuvhfDp8A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k-VbVeSPG4ScgwT26IDoBg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20sarcophagus%20of%20Amenhotep%20II%20pyramid%20text&f=false). [The context is clearly about what to do when going to face judgement and about the dangers in the afterlife](http://egyptopia.com/The-Sarcophagus-of-King-Amenhotep-II-%281424-1397-BC%29_30_1166_1104_en.html). It is not related to geysers or the pie in the sky contraptions you imagined. > The evidence found in many tombs and burial sarcophagi is that they had everything to do with religion. Your geyser being used to build the pyramid is what remains in the land of magic. There are no PT or Coffin Texts inscribed on the walls or anywhere inside any great pyramid. Egyptologists don’t differentiate the real pyramids from the tiny little mud brick pointed tombs that come later to obfuscate. There is no evidence to support the idea that the PT are incantation. They are obviously ritual and not incantation. They were fooled by the similarity to the book of the dead which is derived from it after the collapse of the language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=106)