# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2142 "2015-05-21T05:35:27Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I’ve read just about everything there is to read from Shakespeare to computer code and never once found anything at all from the hand of man that didn’t make sense. Have you tried reading this thread? 😃 [Runs away, having made his one and only contribution to it.] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2143 "2015-05-21T05:43:08Z")
To elaborate: I am not saying that mythological/religious writings are a random, incomprehensible string of characters, I am asserting that it is common for these sorts of writings to make wild and fanciful statements about a wide variety of subjects _that have no significant basis in reality and no practical utility outside of their context within the religion/culture/mythos_. Here’s a modern example: Gene Ray (the TimeCube guy) - wrote a whole bunch of rambling tripe on his website. It appears to be making statements about physics, sociology, an assortment of metaphysical topics etc. > **[Time Cube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube)** > > Time Cube was a pseudoscientific personal web page set up in 1997 by Otis Eugene "Gene" Ray. It was a self-published outlet for Ray's "theory of everything", also called "Time Cube", which claims that all modern sciences are participating in a worldwide conspiracy to omit his theory, which posits that each day actually consists of four days occurring simultaneously. Ray described himself as the "wisest man on earth" and a "godlike being with superior intelligence who has absolute evidenc The we... It comprises words, formed into more or less readable sentences, but it’s just a big load of bollocks. Here’s a not-so-modern example - a Hindu mantra: > [@](#): > > I bow before that Sada Shiva Lingam, Which is enveloped with eight-fold petals, which is the cause of all creation, and which destroys eight types of poverty. I Salute that Eternal Shiva Lingam Which is Worshiped by the Preceptor of Gods and the Best of the Gods, which is Always Worshiped by the Flowers from the Celestial Garden, Which is Superior than the Best and which is the Greatest. I Salute that Eternal Shiva Linga. It’s a collection of words that can be read, and it’s a devotional statement that has meaning within the Hindu religion, and that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2144 "2015-05-21T06:01:12Z")
[quote=“Peter\_Morris, post:2129, topic:706559”] It isn’t even a groove down the face of the pyramid - in fact it’s where 2 faces meet. It’s an 8-sided pyramid. > **[Concave GP Faces](http://www.catchpenny.org/concave.html)** > > A look at theories about the allegedly concave faces of the Great Pyramid at Giza [/QUOTE] Nice. So **cladking** not only has the wrong answer, but is also answering the wrong question. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2145 "2015-05-21T06:10:27Z")
Here is some slightly more recent gobbledygook. > [@](#): > > Hail, Mary, White Lily of the Glorious and always-serene Trinity. > Hail brilliant Rose of the Garden of heavenly delights; > O you, by whom God wanted to be born and by whose milk > the King of Heaven wanted to be nourished! > Nourish our souls with effusions of divine grace. > > Amen! > > hail mary of gold - saint gertrude the great > Roman Catholic Marian prayer attributed to Saint Gertrude the Great. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2146 "2015-05-21T06:32:46Z")
The milk is actually soda water and by ‘Lily’, it means rope. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2147 "2015-05-21T06:42:00Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I’ve touched on all this before so briefly; > > All the great pyramids appear to be stepped pyramids. Steps must play some integral role in how they were constructed since it required extra effort to build the steps and these steps weaken the structure. > > There are visible vertical and horizontal lines on “all” the great pyramids shows that all forces that operated on it occurred in the horizontal and vertical planes. This is only consistent with pulling or pushing the stones straight up the side and “pushing” can be ruled out logically and mostly ruled out evidentially. > > G1 is shown by the gravimetric scan to be a five step pyramid. > > Ancient reports suggested they were built in steps. > > Pulling stones straight upis the most direct, fastest, easiest, and most logical means to lift stones using ancient technology. Whether the pyramids are “stepped” does not, to my understanding, tell us anything about how the stones were brought up to each step. Your claim that pulling the stones straight up is most logical does not amount to evidence for your theory. It appears that you’ve developed a theory based on your interpretation of the texts, but the only physical evidence you can point to are lines that could be caused by lots of things. Not very convincing, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2148 "2015-05-21T06:45:51Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The milk is actually soda water and by ‘Lily’, it means rope. And the “always serene trinity” can only mean one thing, if you read it plainly. H2O… ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2149 "2015-05-21T08:27:38Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Intermediate steps in construction of machines or structures are always inefficient and require extra effort. Trucks are built on frames because it would be difficult or impossible not too. Building are constructed from the bottom up even though it would be easier to build it differently. It’s just the way of nature; you don’t start with a tree, you start with an acorn. If they built steps then it’s a virtual certainty that these steps were needed for construction. And they must have started at the bottom. > > There are no alternatives to the simple fact that they could only lift the building material in increments of 81’ 3". Perhaps their ray guns had a range of only 81’ 3" or perhaps their ropes were limited to this. But the best bet is they pulled the stones up 81’ 3" one step at a time. This is simple fact. I have no idea what any of what you wrote is supposed to mean. Let me put my questions this way instead. A stepped pyramid is one with clear steps, such as the Pyramid of Djoser, the Mezo-American pyramids and others, that have steps not necessed by the building material. The only steps in the pyramid of Giza are those created due to the remaining stones being right angle prisms. With the original cladding in place, the pyramid would have smooth lines from top to bottom. Are you misusing “stepped pyramid” to mean the construction of each layer wasn’t completed before working on the next? Well even if they were stepped during construction, this requires no extra effort. A stepped pyramid has fewer stones than a simliarly sized smooth pyramid. Are you thinking that the path to the top is longer on a stepped pyramid? Sure, but moving blocks horizontally is trivial compared to vertical movement, and having steps during construction means you divide the lifting into separate operations, with all the benefits that gives. The completed pyramid doesn’t have steps so it’s a virtual certainty that while these steps made parts of the construction easier, the builders weren’t limited to methods requiring steps. And there definitely are alternatives to your so called “simple fact”. Such as steps being a nice thing to have during construction and the construction planner thinking 81’ made a convenient number of steps. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2150 "2015-05-21T11:26:04Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > And the “always serene trinity” can only mean one thing, if you read it plainly. H2O… NO! Utterance 709: 123a Hail Mary red rose of Paradise 123b Hail Mary, Virgin full of sweetness and humility “The always serene trinity” is obviously the eye of Horus. This is a fact. But Mariologists aren’t real scientists, and say they musta used water. Water is debunked. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2151 "2015-05-21T13:04:51Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I doubt the ancients would care about this point though. I think it was the “stinky footed bumpkin” crack that started them spinning in their graves. So - you started and stopped their rolling… nice. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2152 "2015-05-21T13:06:49Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > NO! > > Utterance 709: > > 123a Hail Mary red rose of Paradise > 123b Hail Mary, Virgin full of sweetness and humility > > “The always serene trinity” is obviously the eye of Horus. This is a fact. But Mariologists aren’t real scientists, and say they musta used water. > > Water is debunked. 127a Proud Mary keep on burnin’, 127b Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on the river. Water is dedebunked - per Credence. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2153 "2015-05-21T13:11:37Z")
> [@simster](#): > > 127a Proud Mary keep on burnin’, > 127b Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on the river. > Water is dedebunked - per Credence. Well-played; well-played indeed, sir. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2154 "2015-05-21T13:12:42Z")
128 Smoke on the water 129 A fire in the sky ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2155 "2015-05-21T14:37:10Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Sure, but when someone writes ‘I believe in Ghosts’, it’s not reasonable to surmise that they are actually documenting the recipe for spaghetti with meatballs. Which is what you have done. Your point is valid but the PT authors didn’t say “I believe in ghosts”. They said “the earth is made high under the sky by means of the arms of tefnut” and “osiris towed the earth by means of balance”. There is a great deal of ambiguity in this and the ambiguity is total where if the statements are interpreted to be merely magic. We know what “I believe in ghosts means” but we don’t really know what it means to make the earth high under the sky (Egyptologists do NOT interpret this to refer to pyramid building or even stacking up earth). These statements are not taken as being literal and as such the meaning is exceedingly vague. Their interpretation confers no characteristics to the “gods” doing the action because they believe “Tefnut” is the “Goddess of moisture” and “Osiris” is the “God of death”. How does death tow the earth with balance and what does it mean about the god? How does moisture make the earth high" and what is it to make the earth high. It’s not so much interpretation here that is the primary problem; it’s the contradictions that arise when it is taken as modern language. For instance they said “the king ascends to heaven permanent like the earth” and they said “the king ascends on the smoke of incense”. Across the board Egyptologists read startling contradictions. It’s not like someone saying “I believe in ghosts”, it’s like someone saying “I believe in ghosts and I have proof that no ghost exists or ever existed”. Such contradictions don’t disturb modern language speakers so much because we’ve all seen everything. But ancient language didn’t even have words to describe things with no referent. “Woo” would have been no fun at all if you used a language with only a few thousand words. Everytime you wanted to propose something that didn’t exist you’d have to spend a few minutes defining it as your audience walked away. I could have a lot of sympathy for ancient “wooists” since everytime I describe a reality like ramps being debunked (see post #152) I almost need to type out the entire debunkment again. It’s very easy to say they mustta used ramps or we know they used ramps but so hard to show this is nothing but a belief system founded on quick sand. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2156 "2015-05-21T15:07:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So why assume that they are talking about a geyser from the great pyramid building age? I never made such an assumption and didn’t even know it was related to the pyramids. It was called the PT but this word hardly appears at all in it other than colloquial and vulgar terms for it that I wasn’t aware of at the beginning. I solved the PT because someone told me I could never understand the pyramid builders until I understood the Pyramid Texts. By God, he was exactly right! The only assumption I made going in was that the PT was logical and made perfect sense. This is simply part of my understanding of the world. I take reality as being axiomatic so it follows that people must make sense. You can solve any words using the same techniques I used providing the authors used the words correctly and there is sufficient information. This is because most people are sane and use language “correctly”. The words are a window to what they think and know. Egyptologists began reading the PT with the assumption that they were written by highly superstitious people. They interpreted it as being an earlier form of the book of the dead even though they knew the language was much different and the words had to be massaged to read like the book of the dead. They have spent a century and a half pounding these words into the book of the dead. Every year that goes by it looks more and more like a book of incantation. At every juncture things are interpreted to fit their assumption. I merely solved the words individually one at a time and found it made sense. The book of the dead really did come from the PT but the PT wasn’t understood at the time because (did I mention) the ancient language can’t be translated. The ancient language required the speaker and listener to understand a science founded on reality and expressed as vocabulary. When this language/ science failed, the ability to understand it ceased. It is modern science that has discovered it in a coma severely dehydrated and breathing irregularly. It’s no frankenstein’s mummy but a strong, capable, and still living thing that is the origin of humanity itself. It is literally the heart and soul of all mankind. It can never die so long as humanity lives but we might need our heart and soul to survive the next century and who’s to say when it will be rediscovered once again. I suspect Al Mamuum found these same things. His understanding of the specifics coiuldn’t have been good because he lacked modern science but it appears he had enough original material to piece two and two together. As science progresses this will rearise but it could be years. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2157 "2015-05-21T15:22:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > First time I see a whole geyser thrown under a bus. 🙂 > > And the cites showed that it was the ancient Egyptians the ones that put that PT text in their burial coffins and mummy jewellery to tell you and everyone else in no uncertain terms where they thought that lines from the PT were appropriate to be engraved or painted. The PT are the rituals read to people concerning the ascension of the king to heaven. This ascension was literal on all levels. Since the ascension was literal the means to ascend are relevant and are often “stated” or implied. Everything to do with the ascension and changing the king into the pyramid itself is contained in these rituals. They are ONLY rituals and there is no magic and no incantation. There is no reason to believe any great pyramid was ever filled with a dead king or riches. Just as the absense of ramps is used to prove ramps, the absense of bodies and riches is used to prove they were tombs. Why would they be cleaned out unless people desired the wealth in them? Again, and none of these utterances are inscribed on ANYTHING AT ALL from the pyramid building age. No ramps, no tombs, no booty, and no utterances. These only exist in the minds of modern people who have been misled by Egyptological confirmation bias. The facts and physical evidence do not support the teflon paradigm. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2158 "2015-05-21T15:46:45Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The only assumption I made going in was that the PT was logical and made perfect sense. Very little of human writing (and certainly no other writing in the ancient world) can be described as “logical” and making “perfect sense”. This seems like a very, very poor assumption to make. > [@](#): > > Egyptologists began reading the PT with the assumption that they were written by highly superstitious people. “Highly superstitious people”… also known as “people”. By all writing, history, and other evidence, for all of recorded history the vast majority of people were “highly superstitious”. This sounds like a highly reasonable and logical assumption to make. You use words like “merely” to precede profound and amazing instances of supposed discovery. I’m unconvinced that your understanding of the PT and ancient Egypt in general is any better than the Egyptologists and other historians. Much of your posts are indistinguishable from woo, by my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2159 "2015-05-21T15:46:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is clear that when the PT was talking about natron it was about purification or when to apply natron during a mummification. There was no tradition nor any follow up or descriptions regarding the incredible feat of stones moved around effortlessly. The most logical conclusion remains, the PT were about religious ideas about the afterlife. No, this isn’t clear at all. Indeed, it’s quite clear that natron had nothing to do with embalming in many instances. They used natron for many things in ancient times including the manufacture of soap. Vast amounts were dug out of the earth. 864a. To say: O N., 864b. take to thyself this thy pure water, which is come forth out of Elephantiné, 864c. thy water from Elephantiné, thy natron from ’Irw, 864d. thy ḥsmn (natron) from the Oxyrhynchus nome, thine incense from Nubia. The dead king wouldn’t need water. 1024a. His name lives on account of natron-offerings and he is divine. Natron wouldn’t cause a name to live. 24d. Horus has made me count (for) thee the children of Horus even to the place where thou wast drowned. 25a. Osiris N., take to thyself thy natron, that thou mayest be divine. 7 74a. O N., thy water belongs to thee, thy abundance belongs to thee, 774b. thy natron belongs to thee, (all) which is brought to thee by thy brother, Nḫḫ. 1251a. “The chapter of Bdw” is recited for thee; 1251b. “the chapter of natron” is recited for thee. Looks like ritual doesn’t it? 😉 2015c. purify his mouth with natron on the lap of Mḫnti-’irti; 2015d. purify his nails, upper and lower. …Talk about absurd! “Mḫnti-’irti” is khenty irty who is the hermaphroditic god(dess) of the mehet weret cow which caught the water used to build the king/ pyramid. “He” had characteristics of both males and females because his primary function was two-fold; he caught the water coming up through an opening (female) and he discharged this water down a canal to the pyramid (male). “His” “lap” was the nurse canal around the upper eye of horus where the “eyebrow of horus” was used to apply natron. The “mouth” of the king was his “ability to make manifest” which is the water (at altitude with potential energy) on the “lap of khenti irty”. No god ever got funny with a dead king except in the minds of Egyptologists. Khenti irty was also known as the falcon with two eyes who caught things in mid-air. Those playing along at home should see that the two eyes were the upper and lower eye of horus and he caught water, geyser, atum, sekhmet, etc, etc, etc in mid-air as the mehet weret cow. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2160 "2015-05-21T16:18:09Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > 864d. thy ḥsmn (natron) from the Oxyrhynchus nome, thine incense from Nubia. These read like rituals to me. People doing holy things with holy substances in the name of gods with implements dedicated to the gods. But I could be convinced if you have something to offer other than handwaving on what purpose incense from Nubia had in the practical construction of a pyramid for these totally unsupersitious and sensible people who only wrote down engineering instructions in the most insanely complicated way possible. … Okay, the chances are slim even then … ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2161 "2015-05-21T16:59:48Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Nice. So **cladking** not only has the wrong answer, but is also answering the wrong question. Yes, there are eight primary facets tothe pyramid and twelve in total. That each groove affects two of the primary facets merely shows that in reality that it’s eight grooves rather than only four! This point (line of thought 😉 ) was too insignificant for me to have mentioned. I’m surprised anyone did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=107) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=109)