# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2242 "2015-05-23T03:48:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The first image comes from one that has another explanation for the construction of the pyramids, with no water or geysers involved. > > The second one comes from, as if you can not help it, from another woo woo proponent of ancient aliens, although the focus is with the second “other” possibility he mentions too, that the pyramids were build by a lost technological civilization. I have no interest in opinion. I am seeking facts and logic and don’t even notice opinion. > [@](#): > > That straw is really rotten, they are not measuring any water collection and with alien technology no water was needed. The Palermo Stone suggests that the ancients named their years after a measurement. The actual recorded measurement are far too low to reflect high Nile. I believe these measurements are the depth of water as computed at the Saqqara enclosue (first great pyramid). Allyou have to do is multiply the feet of water by 37 to arrive at total “acre feet”. 1524b. His year is calculated for him; his hour knows him. 1524c. N. is known by his year which is with him; They didn’t think like we do. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2243 "2015-05-23T03:56:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, I just looked at the picture. I actually have a similar one with my wife and I standing on top of those casing stones with goofy looks on our faces. 😛 Regardless of where the picture was linked, it’s just a picture of the remaining casing stones and the broken paving stones around it…there is no water capturing machine either in those pictures or there. Gods, literally millions of people have been at that exact spot, it’s not like it’s on the dark side of the moon or something! You’d think if there was evidence of a mystical water capturing machine that one of them would have noticed by now. :smack: I agree with you indeed, the point I was trying to make is that while I did not search the specific web page that used that image in context, the fact is that [Answersingenesis.org](http://Answersingenesis.org) main beef with the pyramids is that egyptologists are wrong because according to the bible (as interpreted by answers in genesis) the pyramids should had been made **after** the universal flood. At the same time one of the sources pointed by cladking in the previous post does think that the pyramids are very, very prehistoric (and that aliens may had been involved too). His sources are as consistent as baby poop. On edit: > [@cladking](#): > > I have no interest in opinion. I am seeking facts and logic and don’t even notice opinion. meh, like if you are not doing that when you imagine your peculiar translations. > [@cladking](#): > > The Palermo Stone suggests that the ancients named their years after a measurement. The actual recorded measurement are far too low to reflect high Nile. I believe these measurements are the depth of water as computed at the Saqqara enclosue (first great pyramid). Allyou have to do is multiply the feet of water by 37 to arrive at total “acre feet”. > > 1524b. His year is calculated for him; his hour knows him. > 1524c. N. is known by his year which is with him; > > They didn’t think like we do. Your beliefs are indeed opinions. And once again, you are only grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2244 "2015-05-23T03:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=cladking] They didn’t think like we do. [/QUOTE] If by that ‘we’ you are referring to you and your invisible mouse scientist friend, then the ancient Egyptians aren’t the only ones who don’t think like you guys do. WE don’t think like you either, obviously. [This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_A._Tsoukalos) guy, however, I think you should talk to…I think he’d buy your magic machine. Hell, he’d probably give you a guest spot on his next show if you compliment his hair… ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2245 "2015-05-23T04:13:31Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Only in your dreams. I don’t see anything that looks like a water collection device…and, btw, I’ve actually BEEN there and walked around that exact place (I remember having the surviving casing stones pointed out on a tour). And those pictures aren’t new revelations…I’ve seen that same picture of the surviving limestone casing stones dozens if not hundreds of times. The water collection device is in ruins. Other pyramids are in far worse shape. Read pages 37 to 54 here; > **[The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh Online](https://www.ronaldbirdsall.com/gizeh/index.htm)** > > The Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh, the > original survey of the Giza Plateau by Sir William Matthew Flinders > Petrie, published 1883. Complete text, measurements, and illustrations. The natural limestone under here was cut and fitted with fine Turah Limestone from across the river. This was surrounded on the outside by a 15’ tenemous wall and on the inside by the pyramid. When “full” this device held up to about 600 acre feet of water safely. The similar one at Saqqara had an automatic overflow that protected the walls and was found only quite recently (2009). This device is connected directly to the canal (knsti-canal) that fed the cliff face counterweight (see pg ~54). The device also incorporates the “basalt pad” on the east side of the pyramid and fed the min at the east side base. Water was fed to the “boat pits” as well. You were standing under the mn-canal in the mehet weret. This entire area was inaccessible to most workers during construction due to the danger of “serpents”. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2246 "2015-05-23T04:18:03Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I could very well be wrong however I don’t **believe** any of the ancient languages are understood. I **believe** that if a corpus of text is understood then the simplest terms in it can be defined by the translator whether the text is incantation or ritual or anything else. The fact they can’t define these terms is prima fascie evidence they don’t understand their own translations. Linguists are tracking these languages using vocabulary and I don’t believe the vocabulary changed. If the vocabulary didn’t change then a change in the way meaning was expressed would be invisible. I am beginning to sound like a broken record in pointing out how unfounded your assertions about language are. So I’ll point out another area where your arguments fail: Your\* beliefs\* about language, about geology, about pyramids, about whatever, are completely irrelevant to the discussion. Not because they are _your_ beliefs, but because they are _beliefs_. _They are not facts._ They _are not evidence_. They are merely your ideas. And, as I’ve written before, that which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence. > [@](#): > > I am merely guessing that most animnal languages don’t need more than a few hundred words. Because there aren’t any real “animal languages”. Some animals, yes, use vocal signs to communicate, but so far as I know, no one yet has demonstrated a species with a grammar. Other than that one variety of chimpanzee. > [@cladking](#): > > The amount of genius and scholarship that went into translating the ancient language was simply staggering. All the heavy lifting was done long before I ever came around. Frankly I doubt I could have even contributed due to the nature of the work. Wait, would this be the “ancient language” of which you said: > [@cladking](#): > > THERE IS NO EVIDENCE EITHER LANGUAGE CAN BE TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH. Hoist by your own petard, sounds like. All bolding and editing mine. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2247 "2015-05-23T04:24:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > If by that ‘we’ you are referring to you and your invisible mouse scientist friend, then the ancient Egyptians aren’t the only ones who don’t think like you guys do. WE don’t think like you either, obviously. We aren’t so terribly dissimilar. Really the Egyptians aren’t all that dissimilar either. People are the same everywhere but there’s more than one way to skin a cat. This is where the biggest difference lie; ancient people pretty much all skinned it the same way and I do it similarly. Modern people each have their own unique way of doing things and never seem to notice we don’t share a perspective much of the time. I suppose people aren’t going to be swayed until the data start rolling in. So, tell me, would your opinion be affected at all if they announce next month that water was used to level G1? What if they announced that the “ben ben” in the Sphinx Temple has almost exactly the chemical composition predicted by my theory or they find traces of copper hydroxide in the gulf course? I’m sure you don’t think any of this will happen, but what if? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2248 "2015-05-23T04:28:42Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Because there aren’t any real “animal languages”. Some animals, yes, use vocal signs to communicate, but so far as I know, no one yet has demonstrated a species with a grammar. Other than that one variety of chimpanzee. This is pretty new too; > **[Researcher Decodes Prairie Dog Language, Discovers They've Been Talking About Us](https://www.treehugger.com/researcher-decodes-praire-dog-language-discovers-theyve-been-calling-people-fat-4856902)** > > The results show that praire dogs aren't only extremely effective communicators, they also pay close attention to detail. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2249 "2015-05-23T04:42:35Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > We aren’t so terribly dissimilar. Really the Egyptians aren’t all that dissimilar either. People are the same everywhere but there’s more than one way to skin a cat. This is where the biggest difference lie; ancient people pretty much all skinned it the same way and I do it similarly. Modern people each have their own unique way of doing things and never seem to notice we don’t share a perspective much of the time. Since thousands if not hundreds of thousands observed those floating rocks it would be a stretch not to see them mentioned everywhere. Same for the geysers. But there is no mention of uncle tutmose controlling the geyser or the rocks in the facebook of the day. > [@cladking](#): > > I suppose people aren’t going to be swayed until the data start rolling in. So, tell me, would your opinion be affected at all if they announce next month that water was used to level G1? > > What if they announced that the “ben ben” in the Sphinx Temple has almost exactly the chemical composition predicted by my theory or they find traces of copper hydroxide in the gulf course? > > I’m sure you don’t think any of this will happen, but what if? This is Great Debates, not “Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share” you need to post over here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=4) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2250 "2015-05-23T10:44:51Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > All I can really do is repeat what I said. > > I could very well be wrong however I don’t believe any of the ancient languages are understood. I believe that if a corpus of text is understood then the simplest terms in it can be defined by the translator whether the text is incantation or ritual or anything else. The fact they can’t define these terms is prima fascie evidence they don’t understand their own translations. Linguists are tracking these languages using vocabulary and I don’t believe the vocabulary changed. If the vocabulary didn’t change then a change in the way meaning was expressed would be invisible. > > It is Egyptologists who believe there were only 10 to 15,000 words in the ancient language. As I understand the PT this estimate seems to be fairly close. I’d guess there are only about 5,000 different words in the PT and it seems highly plausible that this would represent between half and a third of the lexicon. > > I obviously don’t know how many words were in the whatever animal language preceded the first complex language. I am merely guessing that most animnal languages don’t need more than a few hundred words. Today there are well in excess of 100,000 words which doesn’t include highly esoteric words. These facts are consistent with my theory. This is nothing but you ignoring facts to go off on your odd little imaginary set of beliefs. Let’s go through this in order. [ul] [li]The Great Pyramid was built around 4,500 to 4,600 years ago. [/li][li]Your silly assertion is that people were all speaking some sort of universal language at the time the pyramid was built, and that following its construction a “Babel” event caused all the other languages to develop.[/li][li]We already know that Indoeuropean language families go back at least 6,200 years–and East Asian and South African languages have to go back even further for them to differ from Indoeuropean as much as they do. Then there is the problem (for you) that the Americas show human habitation over 20,000 years ago, and those languages have to have developed by that time.[/li][li]Regardless of you “animal language” and “10,000 word vocabulary” dances, what you are proposing is that the Egyptians, (apparently alone), continued to speak your odd super language for thousands of years by themselves, (in contradiction to every example of language known), and that when they went through their “Basbel” event, their resulting words just “happened” to look a lot like the words of the Indoeuropean languages of the people surrounding them.[/li][/ul] This is even sillier than your painting claim where you imagine that some decorative ankhs in a room are “really” geysers pushing a boat up in the air, (while the boat is adorned with fish, birds, and animals). ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2251 "2015-05-23T14:01:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > … continued to speak your odd super language for thousands of years by themselves, **(in contradiction to every example of language known)**, and that when they went through their “Basbel” event, their resulting words just “happened” to look a lot like the words of the Indoeuropean languages of the people surrounding them. > [/LIST] It is my contention that NO languages are “known”. There must be something that makes sense and is perfectly translatable and understandable to be “known”. It is relatively easy to show this with Egyptian because not a single comprehensible sentence from outside the PT survive. One person came up with “Nefermaat is he who makes his gods in words that can not be erased” and this almost fullfill the characteristics except for one, it is probably actually a title since it came from a tomb. Two, in what religion are Gods composed of words erasable or otherwise? Unless we actually know that gods can or can not be erased in a religion the sentence is incomprehgensible and no proof exists we understand the language. The PT certainly support the notion that gods can be erased but it doesn’t support and directly contradicts gods being words at all. Almost every concept “stated” in the PT as understood by modern language speakers is contradicted in the PT! This is why we don’t know such simple things as what the eye of horus is; one time it says one thing and another time it says something else. I’m well aware that translations of Sumerian often appear to be more comprehensible but these works tend to be shorter so contradictions are less likely to appear. Perhaps I’m even wrong about the language being world wide and it’s merely coincidence that later people believed in a tower of babel. Obviously the story as it comes down to us appears quite improbable. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2252 "2015-05-23T14:18:38Z")
[quote=“tomndebb, post:2250, topic:706559”] [li]The Great Pyramid was built around 4,500 to 4,600 years ago. [/li][/QUOTE] This point isn’t important probably but the carbon dating suggests the pyramid was built somewhat earlier (~2750 BC). Egyptologists have constructed a timeline based on various kings lists and are loathe to give it up. They do have a superb knowledge of relative dating as gathered from tombs and a few scraps of ancient records including the Palermo Stone. But there is nothing at all that ties this chronology to absolute dating. I have absolutely no confidence in any of the king’s lists because each is internally inconsistent. The chief one used has a king ruling for 400 years!!! Egyptologists have no confidence in C14 dating so just reject the results. Zahi Hawass used to refer to anyone who challenged orthodoxy as “amateurs”. It’s hardly impossible orthodox dating is correct and I believe they have the pyramid being completed about 2461 BC. I usually use the older date because I have no other data to contradict C14 dating. It should be mentioned probably that the testing for the dating appears to have had at least a few minor flaws so it could be skewed in one direction or another. The R squared of the testing appeared somewhat poor; results were scattered. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2253 "2015-05-23T14:30:36Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > This point isn’t important probably but the carbon dating suggests the pyramid was built somewhat earlier (~2750 BC). Egyptologists have constructed a timeline based on various kings lists and are loathe to give it up. They do have a superb knowledge of relative dating as gathered from tombs and a few scraps of ancient records including the Palermo Stone. But there is nothing at all that ties this chronology to absolute dating. > > I have absolutely no confidence in any of the king’s lists because each is internally inconsistent. The chief one used has a king ruling for 400 years!!! [Old vinyl record scratch loud sound] Yet another big ignorant bit of evidence piling up against your opinions, where was that said? Can not find it in the most up to date records. [http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//chronology/index.html](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//chronology/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2254 "2015-05-23T14:49:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > [li]Your silly assertion is that people were all speaking some sort of universal language at the time the pyramid was built, and that following its construction a “Babel” event caused all the other languages to develop.[/li] It is entirely possible that the babel event happened much earlier than I believe. There really isn’t any “solid” reason I propose 2000 BC except that this is about the earliest understandable language appears. There are things from as early as the 5th dynasty (2300 BC?) that look surprisingly modern in composition. More and more I’m thinking that modern language began creeping in much earlier than 2000 BC. It was used as a determinative on most longer utterances; utterances simply expressed ideas in ancient concepts and then the last two lines summed it up in a sort of modern language. This very much implies that by the 5th dynasty people were already using modern language in at least some day to day discourse. Of course it should be remembered just how little information there is towork with here. For instance it’s entirely possible that the PT are written poetically or it had some other “ryhming scheme”. What I’m seeing as a rhyming of meaning in ancient language might have more to do with being a literary device than being the way people talked. I simply have no way to know because I had to solve the PT in a near vacuum of other writing. There’s also the obvious editing it underwent after the great pyramid building age. Even Egyptologists noted that something was being written out and “osiris” was taking its place. I “know” it was atum being written out and I know why; he “died”. Everywhere the concept of the geyser existed and none of its physical properties was named “atum” was deleted and “osiris” was inserted. Where physical properties of atum appear in the text it would be illogical to replace it with a dead god so the word “atum” was allowed to stay. In light of how little I know about the PT it’s impossible to make sweeping generalizations about a possibly unrelated story from the Bible and Sumerian literature. But the fact is the PT isn’t the sole reason I suspect “babel” is the simplest explanation. More and more the weaknesses of communication and peoples’ misstatements about nature seems to suggest this. As I understand the PT there are no misstatements about nature but I rarely hear anyone make a true statement about natural processes. It’s not nearly as bad on the net but it is remarkable the things people say! I suppose that their statements often have some validity if you can deduce their perspective but it may not be a simple matter to determine. And, of course, one mustn’t lose sight of the fact that the PT was solved by assuming it made perfect sense and part of making sense is that it must be consistent with the laws of nature, therefore it is possible that the accuracy is a reflection of confirmation bias. It’s highly improbable that it is chance. The simplest explanation to my mind is, of course, that when they said, “osiris tows the earth by means of balance” they actually meant this literally. The simplest explanation seems tro be that they meant everything literally and this is why it’s all consistent and it’s why people don’t understand it. If modern people don’t understand the “plain English” in which the PT is written then it’s easy to deduce that some babel event might have actually occurred. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2255 "2015-05-23T14:58:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [Old vinyl record scratch loud sound] > > Yet another big ignorant bit of evidence piling up against your opinions, where was that said? Can not find it in the most up to date records. > > [http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//chronology/index.html](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//chronology/index.html) Would you be so kind as to tell me EXACTLY what it is you believe contradicts anything I said so it can be defended? I will defend anything germaine to my argument or any of its tenets. I’m well aware of orthodox dating and I’m also well aware it is at odds with scientific knowledge and based on something that is illogical. It could still be accurate but there is no way to prove it. They did the C14 dating to prove orthodoxy but when it didn’t they simply rejected the results and blamed it on “amateurs” and “old wood”. I’m sure I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2256 "2015-05-23T15:08:29Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I’m sure I don’t know. /thread. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2257 "2015-05-23T15:25:14Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I usually use the older date because I have no other data to contradict C14 dating. It should be mentioned probably that the testing for the dating appears to have had at least a few minor flaws so it could be skewed in one direction or another. The R squared of the testing appeared somewhat poor; results were scattered. You really are an expert on undermining the very same point you propose in the same post. Indeed there are already recognized problems with carbon 14, it is more effective with biological samples. But with ancient Egyptian stuff it is very clear that there is a lot of contamination due to the constant recycling that ancient Egyptians were known to work with. Carbon dating is checked with artefacts of known age. And it is clear that once one takes into account the most likely problems of contamination the age of the pyramids does fit whiting the margins of error. [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/howold2.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/howold2.html) > [@](#): > > NOVA: When it comes to carbon dating, do you need organic material? > > LEHNER: Right. There has been radiocarbon dating, or carbon-14 dating done in Egypt obviously before we did our studies, and it’s been done on some material from Giza. For example, the great boat that was found just south of the Great Pyramid, which we think belongs to Khufu, that was radiocarbon dated—coming out about 2,600 B.C. AFAIK more recent dating with material from the recently investigated city of the builders do fall also within the years the experts report the great pyramid was built. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2258 "2015-05-23T15:28:06Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Would you be so kind as to tell me EXACTLY what it is you believe contradicts anything I said so it can be defended? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You said that: “I have absolutely no confidence in any of the king’s lists because each is internally inconsistent. The chief one used has a king ruling for 400 years!!!” **What was the name of that king?** I could not find it in the lists I checked. Then we can compare it with what the most up to date list is telling us to see how inconsistent they are or as the most likely guess we can make then stands: you are not even aware of what researchers are talking about regarding something as basic as the most likely chronology. Show us the goods, or just accept your gross ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2259 "2015-05-23T15:54:12Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I have absolutely no confidence in any of the king’s lists because each is internally inconsistent. The chief one used has a king ruling for 400 years!!! > [@GIGObuster](#): > > [Egyptian Chronology](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//chronology/index.html) > [@cladking](#): > > Would you be so kind as to tell me EXACTLY what it is you believe contradicts anything I said so it can be defended? I believe it’s “a king ruling for 400 years.” Where are you getting that from? Are you misunderstanding “Naqada I - 500 years” maybe? It’s the name of a [period](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//naqadan/chronology.html#naqadaI), not the name of a king. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2260 "2015-05-23T17:12:24Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > This is pretty new too; > > [http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/researcher-decodes-praire-dog-language-discovers-theyve-been-calling-people-fat.html](http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/researcher-decodes-praire-dog-language-discovers-theyve-been-calling-people-fat.html) Yes, you’ve posted this before. It’s interesting, but none of the links I read about it suggest that a prairie dog could make a unique combination of calls - one that had never before been uttered - and have it be understood by other prairie dogs. A language is system of rules that allows a finite number of words to be combined to create an infinite number of sentences. The researcher hasn’t shown evidence yet that the animals have a grammar. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2261 "2015-05-23T18:28:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: > > You said that: > > “I have absolutely no confidence in any of the king’s lists because each is internally inconsistent. The chief one used has a king ruling for 400 years!!!” > > **What was the name of that king?** I could not find it in the lists I checked. Then we can compare it with what the most up to date list is telling us to see how inconsistent they are or as the most likely guess we can make then stands: you are not even aware of what researchers are talking about regarding something as basic as the most likely chronology. > > Show us the goods, or just accept your gross ignorance. I do not study this stuff because it has absolutely no bearing on any part of my theory. I don’t even believe the kings were chiefly responsible for the pyramids and the pyramids are a manifestation of a pyramid building society instead. I disagree with Egyptologists in all things from before the 5th dynasty. However I recognize Egyptologists have tremendous amounts of knowledge within their province. Everything they know that isn’t based on one of the four faulty assumptions is correct or essentially correct so far as I know. I have great confidence that if they say king B ruled 103 years after king A that they are right. The problem is that they can cross reference most of the kings and important individuals by simply studying their tombs. But it’s impossible to to correlate “The Second Census of Menes” to any specific date on our calender. They had to make numerous assumptions from ancient sources to state what year something happened. And herein is the problem; none of these ancient sources is reliable. Manetho is the chief source around which it is constructed but Manetho’s list has obvious errors. Even original sources leave out unliked kings and don’t list kings for the intermediate periods which were each of unknown duration. Egyptolofgists don’t like carbon dating and don’t trust the results so they go by the various lists that have been passed down through time that are amended to reflect reality as found from information in tombs. The lists you see and link to are mere constructs based on large amounts of data but they are necessarily inaccurate, incomplete, and can’t be tied to any sprcific date until the new kingdom. The date Khufu died is thus a construct as well. It’s notlike they put freshly minted 2461 BC dated coins on his eyes when he died. Egyptologists by convention tie the king’s lists to specific dates but there is no physical evidencxe to support these dates. The science that has been doone suggests the dates are off by nearly two centuries. I don’t know but given a choice between opinion and science I will choose science everytime as my working hypothesis. I always side with facts and logic no matter how absurd I think it might be. > **[Manetho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manetho)** > > Manetho (/ˈmænɪθoʊ/; Koinē Greek: Μανέθων Manéthōn, gen.: Μανέθωνος) is believed to have been an Egyptian priest from Sebennytos (Coptic: .mw-parser-output .script-coptic{font-family:"Sophia Nubian","Noto Sans Coptic","FreeSerif","Quivira","Segoe UI Historic","Segoe UI Symbol","New Athena Unicode","MPH 2B Damase","Arial Coptic","Analecta","Antinoou"}Ϫⲉⲙⲛⲟⲩϯ) who lived in the Ptolemaic Kingdom in the early third century BC, during the Hellenistic period. > He authored the Aegyptiaca (History of Eg... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=114)