# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2342 "2015-05-26T15:55:46Z")
The Great Pyramid is [230m wide](https://www.google.ca/search?q=great+pyramid+dimensions). Earth curvature is [0.2030364 m/km](https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100208112030AAwgL2k). If the Great Pyramid is built along the curve of the Earth it will be 23mm higher at the centre of one side than if it is built on line of sight. The good people of the Dope will correct me if my sources or my math are wrong. That’s about 1 inch for you Americans. Anybody know how that compares to the tolerances the pyramid was built with and any settling over the next 4-5,000 years? ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2343 "2015-05-26T18:54:53Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There is no one thing that proves they had geysers just as there is no one thing that proves they used ramps. They probably had geysers and not ramps because ALL of the physical evidence points at water and “none” of it is consistent with ramps. … Serious question, **Clad**. Are you not troubled by the fact that there is NO evidence whatsoever of geysers in the area? I mean, I understand having a brainstorm and thinking “Maybe they built it with geysers!” But normally a person would then look into the possibility of geysers, learn that there aren’t any around and then drop the idea – or at least acknowledge that there’s a very big weak spot in the theory. If I came up with a theory that the secret ingredient in successful igloo construction is giraffe urine, I would be a little worried when I learned there are no giraffes in the Arctic. > [@](#): > > Keep in mind that even if you kept a square shaped ditch flooded around the pyramid to use as a level the altitude of the pavement would undulate on either side of this ditch. This would mean to get the base of the pyramid to form a sphere the ditch would have to be right up next to the pyramid and no such feature is apparent in the picture. Are you saying there’s no sign of a ditch, so they must have flooded the _ **entire plateau** _? If so, is there any sign the area was once (or several times, I guess, for the several pyramids) flooded? > [@](#): > > Science that can’t make predictions is useless and probably false. Your theory predicts cold geysers in Giza. Where are they? It also suggests a sophisticated system of triggering and controlling geyser eruptions. Where is there any sign that this knowledge was used by later Egyptians – or did they just use it three times and then forget about it? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2344 "2015-05-26T19:47:20Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > You could put water in a clear hose open at both ends. Hold the hose so the top of the water is on your mark and wherever you hold the other end the top of the water will be at the same elevation. I doubt ancient Egyptians had clear hose but I think something simpler than flooding the whole plain could be done. if they had the ability to flood the whole area, they could deliver the stones directly by boat, then flood it a bit deeper for the next layer and so on until the pyramid is complete. So simple. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2345 "2015-05-26T20:17:44Z")
Instead of those impractical geysers, wouldn’t it be easier to simply build an aqueduct to bring water from the Aswan Dam? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2346 "2015-05-26T20:18:25Z")
> [@Clark\_K](#): > > Serious question, **Clad**. Are you not troubled by the fact that there is NO evidence whatsoever of geysers in the area? He’s told us several times it’s \*under \*the pyramid. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2347 "2015-05-26T20:24:15Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Instead of those impractical geysers, wouldn’t it be easier to simply build an aqueduct to bring water from the Aswan Dam? Or start with a mountain and simply remove the parts that are not a pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2348 "2015-05-26T20:25:34Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Or start with a mountain and simply remove the parts that are not a pyramid. That’s pretty much how the Sphinx was made. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2349 "2015-05-26T20:33:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s pretty much how the Sphinx was made. Bummer, because it doesn’t look anything like a pyramid. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2350 "2015-05-26T20:34:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > if they had the ability to flood the whole area, they could deliver the stones directly by boat, then flood it a bit deeper for the next layer and so on until the pyramid is complete. So simple. That’s silly - the area would just drain back into the Nile. They did have pumping capability, with those \*shaduf \*things, though. They could have used them to fill up a pool _contained by a coffer dam_. With a system of locks. Which, given their technology would have had to be made of a stack of blocks … no, maybe this needs more thought. Oh, wait! The coffer dams could be made of piles of earth and rubble, shaped like ramps! That would do it! They could have done that, so they \*must \*have done that, right, **cladking**? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2351 "2015-05-26T20:36:28Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Bummer, because it doesn’t look anything like a pyramid. 😉 They were still practicing. It’s like when your kid brings home a ceramics project that doesn’t look like anything, and tells you it’s an ashtray. You have to thank and applaud him anyway. The sphinx didn’t look like a pyramid, so they carved a face and a lion’s body on it and called it a sphinx instead. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2352 "2015-05-26T20:43:45Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > You could put water in a clear hose open at both ends. Hold the hose so the top of the water is on your mark and wherever you hold the other end the top of the water will be at the same elevation. I doubt ancient Egyptians had clear hose but I think something simpler than flooding the whole plain could be done. They probably could have made short segments of hose by wrapping a rod with cord and then running hot pitch through it after removing the rod. With short hoses they could join small pools together with equal heights. Curiously there’sd even a spell from the Coffin Texts that can be interpreted to suggest such a thing; 1185 “I am he who wrapped the standard, who issued from the wrr.t-crown; I have come that I may drive out pain, ease the suffering of osiris, and establish offerring in Abydos. The ways by water which belong to Rosteau.” I have several problems with the idea and chiefly that it’s very hard to believe they’d invent hoses unless there was a pressing need. The only pressing need would be to get the apron around the pyramids perfectly flat and they’d have no such need unless they already had a water source. Great idea though and one I’ll keep in mind. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2353 "2015-05-26T20:46:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > For the 100th time, this is a straw man, virtually all researchers now do not think that a big huge ramp was used. This has been pointed out countless times already and insisting on it just discredits you, not to mention that it is really a very basic logical fallacy. You’re missing the point of ramps. It simply doesn’t matter how a ramp is configured it must rise and it must rise to 480’. In order to gain this altidude it must be about a mile long in aggregate. Of course esheresque ramps don’t need to obey defintions. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2354 "2015-05-26T20:53:10Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > They probably could have made short segments of hose by wrapping a rod with cord and then running hot pitch through it after removing the rod. With short hoses they could join small pools together with equal heights. Curiously there’sd even a spell from the Coffin Texts that can be interpreted to suggest such a thing; > > 1185 > > “I am he who wrapped the standard, who issued from the wrr.t-crown; I have come that I may drive out pain, ease the suffering of osiris, and establish offerring in Abydos. The ways by water which belong to Rosteau.” > > I have several problems with the idea and chiefly that it’s very hard to believe they’d invent hoses unless there was a pressing need. The only pressing need would be to get the apron around the pyramids perfectly flat and they’d have no such need unless they already had a water source. > > Great idea though and one I’ll keep in mind. Do we split the Nobel prize? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2355 "2015-05-26T20:58:40Z")
> [@Clark\_K](#): > > Serious question, **Clad**. Are you not troubled by the fact that there is NO evidence whatsoever of geysers in the area? I mean, I understand having a brainstorm and thinking “Maybe they built it with geysers!” But normally a person would then look into the possibility of geysers, learn that there aren’t any around and then drop the idea – or at least acknowledge that there’s a very big weak spot in the theory. I believe there are perfectly logical reasons that these geysers aren’t obviously in evidence. I’m not suggesting that like the lack of bodies and lack of ramps indicates to most people they mustta been tombs built with ramps but simply that the lack of obvious evidence for geysers can be accounted for by several processes. Most of the surviving evidence should be underneath the great pyramids where it simply isn’t seen. Think of it this way; if we knew there were geysers we wouldn’t need to even ask how the pyramids were made. If there were evidence of ramps there wouldn’t be all sorts of other theories. > [@](#): > > Are you saying there’s no sign of a ditch, so they must have flooded the _ **entire plateau** _? If so, is there any sign the area was once (or several times, I guess, for the several pyramids) flooded? …Not the entire plateau. They only flooded a square area around G1 which enclosed some 17 acres minus the rise in the center which was the primeval mound. > [@](#): > > It also suggests a sophisticated system of triggering and controlling geyser eruptions. Where is there any sign that this knowledge was used by later Egyptians – or did they just use it three times and then forget about it? In order to trigger an eruption from a geyser with about 1.11 gal of natron in water you must first have carbonated water under the ground. Shortly after completion of G2 the carbonated water ceased. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2356 "2015-05-26T21:03:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > if they had the ability to flood the whole area, they could deliver the stones directly by boat, then flood it a bit deeper for the next layer and so on until the pyramid is complete. So simple. This sounds like Steven Myers’heory. He proposes that stones were floated up a series of locks to the top of the pyramid. I doubt they had the amount of water required to do this. There are some evidential problems as well. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2357 "2015-05-26T21:04:10Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > the lack of obvious evidence for geysers can be accounted for by several processes. You do not make that allowance for ramps. Why? > [@](#): > > Most of the surviving evidence should be underneath the great pyramids where it simply isn’t seen. Isn’t \*that \*convenient? > [@](#): > > …Not the entire plateau. They only flooded a square area around G1 which enclosed some 17 acres minus the rise in the center which was the primeval mound. Oh dear. I was joking but you’re not. All right then, how did they contain the water to that 17 acres? > [@](#): > > In order to trigger an eruption from a geyser with about 1.11 gal of natron in water you must first have carbonated water under the ground. Shortly after completion of G2 the carbonated water ceased. What \*physical \*(not hieroglyphical) evidence is there that there ever _was_ an underground seltzer supply at Giza? And what physical process do you invoke that stopped it? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2358 "2015-05-26T21:11:20Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Instead of those impractical geysers, wouldn’t it be easier to simply build an aqueduct to bring water from the Aswan Dam? I’ve scoured satellite and aerial photos looking for signs of aqueducts or canals and can’t find a trace. I believe the water must have arrived under the ground. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2359 "2015-05-26T21:19:32Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I’ve scoured satellite and aerial photos looking for signs of aqueducts or canals and can’t find a trace. I believe the water must have arrived under the ground. Didn’t god flood the entire earth pre-Babel? maybe they just held onto the water in a bunch of little urns. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2360 "2015-05-26T21:21:40Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The Great Pyramid is [230m wide](https://www.google.ca/search?q=great+pyramid+dimensions). Earth curvature is [0.2030364 m/km](https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100208112030AAwgL2k). > > If the Great Pyramid is built along the curve of the Earth it will be 23mm higher at the centre of one side than if it is built on line of sight. The good people of the Dope will correct me if my sources or my math are wrong. > > That’s about 1 inch for you Americans. Anybody know how that compares to the tolerances the pyramid was built with and any settling over the next 4-5,000 years? There should be no settling of the pyramid. It has moved a little and the altitude has changed slightly. The biggest change is that the river is higher now and further away. One inch would represent .15 acre feet of water which would provide enough power to lift about 1,750 tons of stones to the top step. This amount of power would be wasted over and over and over during the project. You don’t lift 6 1/2 million tons of stones by repeatedly wasting 28,000,000 ft lbs of work. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2361 "2015-05-26T21:47:58Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There are some evidential problems as well. Quoted for irony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=119)