# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 119
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2362 "2015-05-26T22:01:53Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There should be no settling of the pyramid. It has moved a little and the altitude has changed slightly. The biggest change is that the river is higher now and further away. Hasn’t settled but has moved eh? Has every part moved exactly the same distance plus or minus one inch? > [@cladking](#): > > One inch would represent .15 acre feet of water which would provide enough power to lift about 1,750 tons of stones to the top step. This amount of power would be wasted over and over and over during the project. > > You don’t lift 6 1/2 million tons of stones by repeatedly wasting 28,000,000 ft lbs of work. What in God’s name are you talking about? Why are you converting water into power? Is it related to my post in any way? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2363 "2015-05-26T22:23:20Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > You’re missing the point of ramps. > > It simply doesn’t matter how a ramp is configured it must rise and it must rise to 480’. In order to gain this altidude it must be about a mile long in aggregate. One long ramp all the way to the top of the pyramid? Thats the only ramp configuration you can imagine? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2364 "2015-05-26T22:27:51Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > . . . and no one really understands the PT based on my criteria. On your criteria? No one understands the Time Cube, either–and for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2365 "2015-05-26T22:46:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > On your criteria? No one understands the Time Cube, either–and for the same reason. Yeah, this is starting to rival Time Cube for sheer tenacious resistance to reason. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2366 "2015-05-26T23:12:38Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There is no one thing that proves they had geysers just as there is no one thing that proves they used ramps. They probably had geysers and not ramps because ALL of the physical evidence points at water and “none” of it is consistent with ramps. Except for those pesky ramps that we still have traces of. > [@](#): > > I can’t imagine in simple means to achieve a perfect sphere other than flooding the area and keeping it flooded. How in Hell did a perfect sphere enter the conversation? (If it did enter the conversation in a non-insane manner, please forgive me. I don’t waste my time reading all the claptrap you post.) > [@74westy](#): > > If the Great Pyramid is built along the curve of the Earth it will be 23mm higher at the centre of one side than if it is built on line of sight… > That’s about 1 inch for you Americans. _sigh_ We KNOW metric. We just won’t be bullied into USING it by all you little countries. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2367 "2015-05-26T23:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] How in Hell did a perfect sphere enter the conversation? (If it did enter the conversation in a non-insane manner, please forgive me. I don’t waste my time reading all the claptrap you post.) [/QUOTE] I believe that they needed the perfect sphere for the anti-gravity device to contact the mother ship, silly. You KNOW this I’m sure…it’s really the only way to contact a mother ship when flooding a plateau while using geyser powered lifting mechanisms! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2368 "2015-05-26T23:29:21Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > You’re missing the point of ramps. > > It simply doesn’t matter how a ramp is configured it must rise and it must rise to 480’. In order to gain this altidude it must be about a mile long in aggregate. > > Of course esheresque ramps don’t need to obey defintions. Piffle, the reason why you go for the straw man is clear (and by not clarifying what less impressive ramps are theorized to had been used with a combination of lifts) you only attempt to make it sound sound ridiculous, when in reality the one that is being discredited is your ideas when you use those straw men. So, any progress made on the name of the king that you declared that egyptologists told us that ruled for 400 years? BTW you seem to indeed continue to ignore that there are very scientific ways to deduce the years of the rules of the kings, no problem for us, but it still points at you just relying on gross ignorance as usual for your declarations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2369 "2015-05-26T23:39:19Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I believe there are perfectly logical reasons that these geysers aren’t obviously in evidence. I’m not suggesting that like the lack of bodies and lack of ramps indicates to most people they mustta been tombs built with ramps but simply that the lack of obvious evidence for geysers can be accounted for by several processes. Most of the surviving evidence should be underneath the great pyramids where it simply isn’t seen. Think of it this way; if we knew there were geysers we wouldn’t need to even ask how the pyramids were made. If there were evidence of ramps there wouldn’t be all sorts of other theories. We already linked to evidence of ramps in many pyramids, while your evidence is just amounting to zero. We also know that you put the geyser away from the pyramid or next to it depending on the many problems we pointed out that using geysers would get you. … > [@cladking](#): > > In order to trigger an eruption from a geyser with about 1.11 gal of natron in water you must first have carbonated water under the ground. Shortly after completion of G2 the carbonated water ceased. 1.11 gal of natron would not get you a constant and reliable geyser. And besides that you would need much more or that to inject it underground, with another bore hole that clearly you or the PT forgot about. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2370 "2015-05-27T00:42:43Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > [(PDF) The symbolism of the Eye of Horus in the Pyramid Texts | Samantha Oakley - Academia.edu](http://www.academia.edu/3071019/The_symbolism_of_the_Eye_of_Horus_in_the_Pyramid_Texts) > > I’m sure this woman is nobody’s fool and I’m hardly competent to judge her work but I’ve read it and can state categorically no language will ever be so complex you need a book to explain any of its words. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Well, I guess that puts the dictionaries out of business. Not to mention linguists: [“She Say, She Go, She Be like”: Verbs of Quotation over Time in African American Vernacular English](http://www.jstor.org/stable/40281021?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=use&searchText=of&searchText=be&searchText=in&searchText=african&searchText=american&searchText=vernacular&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Duse%2Bof%2Bbe%2Bin%2Bafrican%2Bamerican%2Bvernacular%26amp%3Bprq%3Dghost%2Bin%2Bhamlet%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bhp%3D25%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bacc%3Doff&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). [The Syntactic and Stylistic Development of the Infinitive in Middle English](http://www.jstor.org/stable/2863795?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=use&searchText=of&searchText=%22do%22&searchText=in&searchText=Middle&searchText=English&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Duse%2Bof%2B%2522do%2522%2Bin%2BMiddle%2BEnglish%26amp%3Bprq%3Dghost%2Bin%2Bhamlet%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bhp%3D25%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bacc%3Doff&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). Why, you can even write a book about the _absence_ of a word in a language: [Copula Absence in Samaná English: Implications for Research on the Linguistic History of African American Vernacular English](http://www.jstor.org/stable/40281021?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=use&searchText=of&searchText=be&searchText=in&searchText=african&searchText=american&searchText=vernacular&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Duse%2Bof%2Bbe%2Bin%2Bafrican%2Bamerican%2Bvernacular%26amp%3Bprq%3Dghost%2Bin%2Bhamlet%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bhp%3D25%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bacc%3Doff&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). [Street Conscious Copula Variation in the Hip Hop Nation](http://www.jstor.org/stable/40281040?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=deleted&searchText=copula&searchText=in&searchText=hip&searchText=hop&searchText=nation&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Ddeleted%2Bcopula%2Bin%2Bhip%2Bhop%2Bnation%26amp%3Bprq%3Dghost%2Bin%2Bhamlet%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bhp%3D25%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bacc%3Doff&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). So, as usual, **cladking** ’s linguistic maunderings are about as vapid as his insights on geology, engineering, and history. Dude’s consistent, I’ll give him that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2371 "2015-05-27T01:13:56Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > . . . How in Hell did a perfect sphere enter the conversation? . . . The idea came from the fact (?) that the Pyramids “follow the curvature of the earth.” i.e., the bases aren’t geometrically flat, but “lower” at the edges than at the center. All that really matters is a section of the surface of a sphere, some few acres in extent. I think most people hold that, yes, the ancients used water-leveling to ensure that the base of the pyramid is level, but **cladking** is the only one I’ve ever heard who suggested the entire building site was flooded in order to create a “waterline” as a foundation line. > [@XT](#): > > I believe that they needed the perfect sphere for the anti-gravity device to contact the mother ship, silly. You KNOW this I’m sure…it’s really the only way to contact a mother ship when flooding a plateau while using geyser powered lifting mechanisms! And it has to be a sphere of purest gold, and some forty feet in diameter – no, wait, make that eighty – for the purposes of Holy Cirin. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2372 "2015-05-27T01:22:34Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > . . . We today don’t have fine enough control of altitude so when we pour floors we don’t even try to do it in one piece so in long buildings they are poured in segments with each being level. Water will puddle in the middle of each segment but the problem isn’t severe because segments are small enough. . . . > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not really, and that is just about example #121 of things that you got wrong. . . . 🙂 Is this the pouring of concrete floors that you’re talking about, here? (Not goint to read back to see.) The reason that concrete floors aren’t poured in large stretches is that they’ll crack if you don’t put in expansion joints, etc. Thermal expansion/contraction and all. Standard concrete will sag a bit in the middle of an expanse because it dries from the outside, in. There are additives that will cause it to expand as it dries, making it rise (very slightly) like bread dough. “Control of altitude” has nothing to do with it. > [@cladking](#): > > . . . If you used a ditch to level the pyramid it would only about halve the amount of water needed. You couldn’t go in segments or altitude would drift so you either keep it filled or continually refill it. . . . . And it got really word salad after that. But let’s pause and confirm that your geometry is way off. A ditch around a big square will be less and less of a percentage of the area of the square the bigger the square gets. Not that I know why anyone would want a pyramid-sized water level. Ah, [competing theories](http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/pyramid-alignment.html) (scroll down to the Leveling section). I like the Egyptian Level better. If it’s already been mentioned, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2373 "2015-05-27T01:26:36Z")
Simple Machine Theory: aka the fulcrum and the Lever. [http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~jason2/papers/pyramid.htm](http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~jason2/papers/pyramid.htm) The diagrams helped me to visualize how something as this method would proceed. Smaller stones used as the counterweights could be endlessly used and passed up from course to course. I think the water was for drinking purposes, and perhaps lube for clay or sand, to help slide move the blocks into position, but not as a counterweight. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2374 "2015-05-27T01:36:36Z")
missed the edit: I think the lifting beams diameter would have to be at LEAST 1-2 feet, not the 6-12 inches the author suggested. Perhaps even larger. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2375 "2015-05-27T02:59:25Z")
> **[Darmok](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok)** > > "Darmok" is the 102nd episode of the American science fiction television series Star Trek: The Next Generation, the second episode of the fifth season. > Set in the 24th century, the series follows the adventures of the Starfleet crew of the Federation starship Enterprise-D. In this episode, the crew of the Enterprise is unable to establish meaningful communication with the crew of an alien vessel, which is resolved by the struggle of the ships' captains to defend each other from a vicious beast... cladking, did you watch that episode of Star Trek any time abouts where you discovered the truth behing Ancient Egyptian? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2376 "2015-05-27T14:14:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > [Darmok - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok) > > cladking, did you watch that episode of Star Trek any time abouts where you discovered the truth behing Ancient Egyptian? I had forgotten about the Darmok episode but certainly noticed it pretty fast when I saw it again a few years ago. “Tamarian” has a few similarities to the ancient language. Computer languages are a much closer approximation though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2377 "2015-05-27T14:22:28Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I had forgotten about the Darmok episode but certainly noticed it pretty fast when I saw it again a few years ago. > > “Tamarian” has a few similarities to the ancient language. Computer languages are a much closer approximation though. And the less one understands either, the more similar they become. I bet you have an extremely hard time telling one from the other at this point, right? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2378 "2015-05-27T14:28:12Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Is this the pouring of concrete floors that you’re talking about, here? (Not goint to read back to see.) The reason that concrete floors aren’t poured in large stretches is that they’ll crack if you don’t put in expansion joints, etc. Thermal expansion/contraction and all. Large pieces of concrete would undergo more breakage due to expansion. > [@](#): > > Standard concrete will sag a bit in the middle of an expanse because it dries from the outside, in. There are additives that will cause it to expand as it dries, making it rise (very slightly) like bread dough. “Control of altitude” has nothing to do with it. This isn’t a major effect on a large flat piece is it? > [@](#): > > And it got really word salad after that. But let’s pause and confirm that your geometry is way off. A ditch around a big square will be less and less of a percentage of the area of the square the bigger the square gets. Not that I know why anyone would want a pyramid-sized water level. Ah, [competing theories](http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/pyramid-alignment.html) (scroll down to the Leveling section). I like the Egyptian Level better. If it’s already been mentioned, I apologize. The amount of water lost from a ditch is proportional to its size but is also dependent on the type of soil. In this case (karst) much of the loss is is independent of the size but more related to its depth and lenght. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2379 "2015-05-27T14:35:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > We already linked to evidence of ramps in many pyramids, while your evidence is just amounting to zero. So long as ramps are debunked and the debunkment was successfully challenged a few pages back and every word you used to “prove” ramps" was shown to be wrong it seems strange you’d say there is evidence fpor ramps here. There are no ramps in evidence that could lift stones up on great pyramids. Every “ramp” points away from the pyramids or at their base. ALL of the evidence disproves rampsd were used and they are debunked (see post #152). > [@](#): > > 1.11 gal of natron would not get you a constant and reliable geyser. And besides that you would need much more or that to inject it underground, with another bore hole that clearly you or the PT forgot about. Even tiny amounts of sweets and salts will trigger an eruption in water saturated in CO2. “The dead king lives on sweets and fumigations in the earth”. Of course it’s possible these people were sun addled but were instead breathing ant poison provided by their alien overlords. Not very possible but everything has tobe explained somehow and this doesn’t look like a magic spell. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2380 "2015-05-27T14:41:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Piffle, the reason why you go for the straw man is clear (and by not clarifying what less impressive ramps are theorized to had been used with a combination of lifts) you only attempt to make it sound sound ridiculous, when in reality the one that is being discredited is your ideas when you use those straw men. Unless you’re M C Esher it’s IMPOSSIBLE to design any ramp system that gains 480’ without it being a mile long. Of ccourse this presumes you don’t just make it much steeper. Please assume the statement makes sense and look for the logic in it. Once you find the logic then argue with me if you still want to. If you can’t find the logic then please ask for an elaboration or explanation. If you assume everything someone says is illogical or nonsensical then communication will fail. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2381 "2015-05-27T14:47:36Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Hasn’t settled but has moved eh? Has every part moved exactly the same distance plus or minus one inch? Yes. The pyramids are near a transform plate boundary and founded on solid rock about 30km thick. Of course this “solid rock” is riddled with caves down to two km because the Nile was once a huge canyon here. > [@](#): > > What in God’s name are you talking about? Why are you converting water into power? Is it related to my post in any way? Water was the power to lift stones on the pyramid. They didn’t waste even small amounts they certainly wouldn’t waste it .15 acre feet at a time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=118) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=120)