# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 121
**Author:** ![Redshirt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@Redshirt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redshirt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2402 "2015-05-27T21:11:14Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > You’d say, “The phenomenon of missing bread coincided temporally with a glimpse of Jimmy Slimfinger.”. This fails to capture the uncertainty. It might have been someone else but it looked like Jimmy, plus that bum’s always hanging around my shop and I don’t trust him, have you seen those beady eyes? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2403 "2015-05-27T22:08:53Z")
> [@Redshirt](#): > > This fails to capture the uncertainty. It might have been someone else but it looked like Jimmy, plus that bum’s always hanging around my shop and I don’t trust him, have you seen those beady eyes? Ancient Egyptians are never uncertain. They’re not stinky footed bumpkins, you know. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2404 "2015-05-27T22:16:18Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Of course, to make this claim, you have to deliberately ignore the general hypothesis that the village held only the skilled artisans and managers, (who would easily fit into such a town), while the large number of simple laborers would have lived in temporary housing for the specific season when they were not engaged in farming, providing labor only during the off season. I’m not ignoring the hypothesis merely disregarding any significant probability that it is accurate. Dr Lehner is talking about the men living on the ramps now days but this isn’t reflective of reality. Humans require water, food, and shelter. They have always required this and once lived in caves to acquire shelter. If there’s anything we know for certain about building pyramids, they must have done it efficiently. If they used ramps it would have required incredible timing and exquisite planning. They would not have been wasting much effort in the manifestation of the most lifting for any project in human history. Even a tiny percentage of waste represented a huge output of labor. Certainly some sort of temporary housing can’t be ruled out. Perhaps there’s no suitable or evidenced location for such housing at Giza because the workers were boated in from more remote locations along the Nile. A short ferry then a quarter mile long walk up the causeway isn’t too much of a commute. There are numerous possibilities but the facts are the facts. The fact is too many men would have died of exposure on the ramps. It would be highly inefficient to pull ones belongings up ramps all day. If conditions were so horrendous potential workers would have fled rather than come drag stones. What exists is a tiny workers village full of men women and children. We don’t have evidence or good reason to believe men were brought in by boat every day. There are no “overseers of ferrymen” or “overseers of fare collectors”. There’s nothing to suggest another town and no reason to suppose they’d use tents when they knew in advance the project would require decades. Wherever the men lived they’d have needed a steady stream of supplies but only three ports are known and one lacks roads in and out. There is an implication that the builders village was home to the men and it didn’t need roads because building supplies took a different route. If we get more data the equation might change but until we do we have only what’s currently in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2405 "2015-05-27T22:24:22Z")
> [@Redshirt](#): > > This fails to capture the uncertainty. It might have been someone else but it looked like Jimmy, plus that bum’s always hanging around my shop and I don’t trust him, have you seen those beady eyes? I am presupposing that “glimpse” had a corresponding word in ancient Egyptian. If not then it would require more complex phraseology or two sentences perhaps. I suspect they had a lot of words for “to see”. When your science and language are based on observation it’s likely there are numerous means of communicating the level of observation and certainty. For instance what might they call a good look under extreme conditions like surprise? It can be hard to be sure of what you’ve seen when you’re surprised and you can be quite certain of a solid observation with little more than a peek. There are several translations for the concept of “looking” in the PT. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2406 "2015-05-27T22:29:02Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Ancient Egyptians are never uncertain. Actually it seems they were rarely very certain of anything at all. They trusted theory and didn’t realize it was based on axioms but the nature of theory was such they didn’t need to know. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2407 "2015-05-27T22:39:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > That only you, with no evidence and no experience in archaeological excavation and no first hand experience of the Giza plateau can find. It’s right there in front of people. [![](https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/utp/chap5/khufus-pyramid-bottom.jpg) ](https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/utp/chap5/khufus-pyramid-bottom.jpg) It was built before the pyramid. It is surrounded by a coffer dam. There is a canal that is known to have taken water from it to the point that would be perfect to build the easter cliff face counterweight. (seeing as how all the infrastructure was here) > [@](#): > > Even though you have no education in reading it and are basing your “translation” on your re-interpretation of what someone else rendered into an English transliteration. _(Did you ever find the quotes for your unsupported claim that anyones translated the “eye of Horus” in “dozens” of ways?)_ I posted the link for Oakley. It’s only the lack of education that made it possible to understand it. Once you think Tefnut is the “Goddess of Moisture” or any sort of god at all, you are lost. I went to extreme effort to avoid all interpretation of the PT during the 6+ years it required to solve it. Once you get a term wrong it is very difficult to fix it. > [@](#): > > There are also no references to pipemakers, nitron chargers, geyser gate managers, etc. So, your “evidence” that there were no ramps equally disproves your claims for magic geysers. Every single job is now evidenced with only a couple very minor exceptions. I know the name of every worker and can point to a tomb of one who did that job. The exceptions are simply tasks that were done by very very few men and required little training other than on the job training. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2408 "2015-05-27T23:03:36Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Every single job is now evidenced with only a couple very minor exceptions. I know the name of every worker and can point to a tomb of one who did that job. The exceptions are simply tasks that were done by very very few men and required little training other than on the job training. It brings a tear to my eye to remember the quote from _The Princess Bride_. “Truly you have a dizzying intellect.” ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2409 "2015-05-27T23:08:26Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > The idea being that you don’t need much water (one article said the ditches were two feet across - but with no citations, so _shrug_) before the marks are made and you want the water gone after the marks are made. If I were feeling puckish, I’d hypothesize a dye that could be mixed with oil and floated on the water to mark the stone side of the ditch automatically and exactly. I have absolutely no evidence for such a thing, however, so that would be irresponsible. The soil is highly porous limestone. It is also marked by fissures of various sizes. To keep a ditch circling 14 acres of this would require vast amounts of water. Why would they even do this if there were no pressing need? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2410 "2015-05-27T23:09:27Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > It’s right there in front of people. > > [https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/utp/chap5/khufus-pyramid-bottom.jpg](https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/utp/chap5/khufus-pyramid-bottom.jpg) > > It was built before the pyramid. It is surrounded by a coffer dam. There is a canal that is known to have taken water from it to the point that would be perfect to build the easter cliff face counterweight. (seeing as how all the infrastructure was here) Isn’t that just a picture of some of the original facing stones? Here’s another: > **[aldokkan.com —](https://www.aldokkan.com)** > > You've likely heard of King Tut and Ramesses the Great, but ancient Egypt's most fascinating rulers were often the women who dared to claim the title of pharaoh. These extraordinary queens didn't just sit beside powerful men—they became kings... What is it you think you’re seeing in the photo? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2411 "2015-05-27T23:09:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Seen it (I think you might have mentioned it once before). You haven’t debunked anything. Oh? And what fact in the debunkment would you challenge? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2412 "2015-05-27T23:13:07Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Oh? > > And what fact in the debunkment would you challenge? There aren’t any facts in it. Just assertions. You seem to have trouble with this. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2413 "2015-05-27T23:20:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Still sounds delusional – totally outrageous claims backed up by mere assertions, insistence, and certainty. This would be humoroius if I hadn’t heard it a million times. Egyptologists say not that they know they used ramps but that they could only have used ramps. They not only know they used ramps but they even know there were no other possibilities and the only question is the shape of the mile long ramps. I, on the other hand, say it appears all the evidence supports the concept that stones were pulled up one step at a time. I’ll then happily add that the evidence less strongly supports the contention that they used counterweights full of water to pull the stones up one step at a time. I say there’s a 70% chance they used geysers and Egyptologists say there’s a 100% chance they could only have useds ramp and then they hire MC Escher to draw them. In their world ramps to 480’ don’t even need to be a mile long if they are configured just so. If you walk a mile around a spiral ramp and end up at the top it’s exactly equivalent to a 480’ ramp since that’s all the farther the stone moved. (well 700’+ anyway) I’m not sure of anything except people will interpret evidence to fit whatever fanciful or expert idea they’ve got. People see what they expect and can’t see what they don’t. A ben ben growing in the Sphinx Temple is invisible even when posted in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2414 "2015-05-27T23:23:24Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > It brings a tear to my eye to remember the quote from _The Princess Bride_. “Truly you have a dizzying intellect.” If it’s any consolation I’ve always confounded everyone. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2415 "2015-05-27T23:29:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Isn’t that just a picture of some of the original facing stones? Here’s another: > [aldokkan.com —](http://www.aldokkan.com/photos/great_pyramid/03_great_pyramid.jpg) > > What is it you think you’re seeing in the photo? The pyramid is resting on these stones. Obviously it can be concluded that these flat water tight stones were laid BEFORE the pyramid was begun. These flat stones have all the characteristics of a water collection device that was ACTUALLY USED. It transported water to the two cliff face counterweights. The water arrived in it from the pyramid counterweigts after construction began and (probably) a geyser before. One of the characteristics of this collection device is that it will form part of a sphere because it was built by AND for water. It must be part of a sphere or it wouldn’t drain 100%. Even slight deviation could waste thousands and thousands of gallons of water everytime they ran short on water. The current testing will prove it’s part of a sphere unless they are so afraid of the pyramid they don’t do the math. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2416 "2015-05-27T23:35:35Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > There aren’t any facts in it. Just assertions. You seem to have trouble with this. So… The gravimetric scan is simply an assertion? The tomb of the “Overseer of the Boats of Neith” doesn’t really exist? There was no weight found in the air shaft? Have you found an attestation for the word “ramp” and not said anything? Page 4 post 152 is not just “assertions” but are actual facts and ramps are debunked. If you have a SPECIFIC issue then I’d be happy to support it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2417 "2015-05-27T23:37:17Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > If it’s any consolation I’ve always confounded everyone. 😉 Good to see you are joking here becausa as I warned you, everyone is not confused, your post # 152 is seen as a joke by all. As it was this other joke from you: “Even tiny amounts of sweets and salts will trigger an eruption in water saturated in CO2”. As I pointed before the reaction works by ensuring that the Mentos gets to the bottom of the bottle, your idea is to just dump the natron water into the hole. That is not going to work as you expect because the reaction will prevent you from dumping enough in the hole as (in your abortion of an idea) it only has one bore hole to be used as the input and output. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2418 "2015-05-27T23:42:11Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The pyramid is resting on these stones. Obviously it can be concluded that these flat water tight stones were laid BEFORE the pyramid was begun. > > These flat stones have all the characteristics of a water collection device that was ACTUALLY USED. It transported water to the two cliff face counterweights. The water arrived in it from the pyramid counterweigts after construction began and (probably) a geyser before. > > One of the characteristics of this collection device is that it will form part of a sphere because it was built by AND for water. It must be part of a sphere or it wouldn’t drain 100%. Even slight deviation could waste thousands and thousands of gallons of water everytime they ran short on water. > > The current testing will prove it’s part of a sphere unless they are so afraid of the pyramid they don’t do the math. Of course the addition to an sphere in all this only complicates matters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2419 "2015-05-27T23:47:20Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > So… > > The gravimetric scan is simply an assertion? Should not be since the experts told us that it does not help you. > [@cladking](#): > > The tomb of the “Overseer of the Boats of Neith” doesn’t really exist? You have nothing but your own interpretation of the facts. > [@cladking](#): > > There was no weight found in the air shaft? Again, just your interpretation. > [@cladking](#): > > Have you found an attestation for the word “ramp” and not said anything? Straw man again against that poster, there is indeed a sale going on for them, > [@cladking](#): > > Page 4 post 152 is not just “assertions” but are actual facts and ramps are debunked. If you have a SPECIFIC issue then I’d be happy to support it. Can you name anyone in this discussion that you convinced with that joke? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2420 "2015-05-27T23:57:37Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > This would be humoroius if I hadn’t heard it a million times. Egyptologists say not that they know they used ramps but that they could only have used ramps. They not only know they used ramps but they even know there were no other possibilities and the only question is the shape of the mile long ramps. > > I, on the other hand, say it appears all the evidence supports the concept that stones were pulled up one step at a time. I’ll then happily add that the evidence less strongly supports the contention that they used counterweights full of water to pull the stones up one step at a time. > > I say there’s a 70% chance they used geysers and Egyptologists say there’s a 100% chance they could only have useds ramp and then they hire MC Escher to draw them. In their world ramps to 480’ don’t even need to be a mile long if they are configured just so. If you walk a mile around a spiral ramp and end up at the top it’s exactly equivalent to a 480’ ramp since that’s all the farther the stone moved. (well 700’+ anyway) > > I’m not sure of anything except people will interpret evidence to fit whatever fanciful or expert idea they’ve got. People see what they expect and can’t see what they don’t. A ben ben growing in the Sphinx Temple is invisible even when posted in the thread. I have no opinion on the ramps. But what you’ve offered just sounds like gobbledygook, and you’ve refused to demonstrate the possibility of your ideas with models. Especially the stuff about language and how the Egyptians thought – that’s indistinguishable from deluded rambling, or a Dan Brown novel. You’ve failed to demonstrate any special insight into language or how ancient peoples think. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/2421 "2015-05-28T00:05:52Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > What exists is a tiny workers village full of men women and children. We don’t have evidence or good reason to believe men were brought in by boat every day. There are no “overseers of ferrymen” or “overseers of fare collectors”. There’s nothing to suggest another town and no reason to suppose they’d use tents when they knew in advance the project would require decades. Wherever the men lived they’d have needed a steady stream of supplies but only three ports are known and one lacks roads in and out. There is an implication that the builders village was home to the men and it didn’t need roads because building supplies took a different route. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=120) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=122)