# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/461 "2015-04-23T15:54:18Z")
Do you mean there’s vases with pictures of ancient drills on them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/462 "2015-04-23T15:55:09Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > This again? Of course not. There are no Egyptologists who believe in anything other than course and brutish methods of building pyramids. It is the only means that is consistent with gobbledty gook spouting sun addled bumpkins. > > If you mean the drill then the earliest known vases and cores date to that era. A real Egyptologist could provide a lot more details than I. But their guess as to the means these vases were made may notr be accurate. Then might I suggest that you preface most(if not all) of your statements of “fact” with the words “I’m guessing”, “I’m imagining”, “I’m supposing” or words to the same effect? This way, people entering the conversation late in the game won’t get the mistaken impression that you are speaking from a position of knowledgeable authority. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/463 "2015-04-23T15:56:17Z")
Why is manual labor “course and brutish”? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/464 "2015-04-23T16:07:37Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > You’re certainly right that I’m mostly failing to get through to people and it is this that has had me exploring the causes. The relentless straw-man arguments are a big part of it, at least for me, e.g.: > [@cladking](#): > > This again? Of course not. There are no Egyptologists who believe in anything other than course and brutish methods of building pyramids. It is the only means that is consistent with gobbledty gook spouting sun addled bumpkins. Spiraling interior ramps aren’t coarse, or brutish. Building a ramp in order to build the lower part of a pyramid, then progressively disassembling it in order to re-use the materials for the upper part of the pyramid, isn’t coarse or brutish; it’s clever. I don’t know much about the pyramids or Ancient Egypt, but even I know that the pyramid builders used multiple designs and multiple building techniques; they applied new knowledge to subsequent projects, just like we do. Further, having religious or mystical aspects in a culture doesn’t make the people “gobbledty gook spouting bumpkins”. To this day, most people on earth are religious, and mysticism is an important part of many peoples’ daily lives. In short, I call b.s. on your characterization of how mainstream Egyptology, and lay people, view the Ancient Egyptians. This casts doubt upon all your other ideas, at least in my case. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/465 "2015-04-23T16:18:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In short, I call b.s. on your characterization of how mainstream Egyptology, and lay people, view the Ancient Egyptians. This casts doubt upon all your other ideas, at least in my case. To put another way, you are invoking the Thirteenth Strike Rule, i.e., “The clock that strikes 13 is not only false, but casts doubt on the other twelve as well.” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/466 "2015-04-23T16:30:57Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > To put another way, you are invoking the Thirteenth Strike Rule, i.e., “The clock that strikes 13 is not only false, but casts doubt on the other twelve as well.” Sure; and there’s a new phrase for me to learn and use. Thanks. Really though, wouldn’t it be bizarre if the Ancient Egyptians had no religion or mysticism, when (as far as I know) every human civilization to date has? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/467 "2015-04-23T16:39:14Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > To put another way, you are invoking the Thirteenth Strike Rule, i.e., “The clock that strikes 13 is not only false, but casts doubt on the other twelve as well.” Mr. Moto, or Charlie Chan? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/468 "2015-04-23T17:07:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Mr. Moto, or Charlie Chan? 🙂 It has been falsely attributed to Mark Twain, but it is more likely that Thomas Hardy was the one: “This supreme instance of Troy’s goodness fell upon Gabriel’s ears like the thirteenth stroke of a crazy clock: it is not only received with incredulity as regards itself, but it throws a shadow of doubt over all previous assurances.” - Far from the Madding Crowd (1874) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/469 "2015-04-23T18:10:33Z")
I don’t know the original source of the Thirteenth Strike Rule; I’ve heard & used it all my life. Hardy might indeed be the one, but I’d be happy if it was Twain, Moto, or Chan. It’s one of those sayings that seems to have a frequent relevance. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/470 "2015-04-23T18:42:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do you mean there’s vases with pictures of ancient drills on them? No. There are vases that were produced by being drilled. Some of these are in very hard stone. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/471 "2015-04-23T18:46:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then might I suggest that you preface most(if not all) of your statements of “fact” with the words “I’m guessing”, “I’m imagining”, “I’m supposing” or words to the same effect? This way, people entering the conversation late in the game won’t get the mistaken impression that you are speaking from a position of knowledgeable authority. If I say “humans aren’t intelligent” it should be clear from the statement that there will be no one I can cite that will support the statement and that this is contingent on my perspective and interpretations being the correct one. This should not be an issue for people or am I supposed to say that my guess is that most people probably won’t have a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/472 "2015-04-23T18:48:07Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I don’t know the original source of the Thirteenth Strike Rule; I’ve heard & used it all my life. Hardy might indeed be the one, but I’d be happy if it was Twain, Moto, or Chan. It’s one of those sayings that seems to have a frequent relevance. In the spirit of this thread I’d attribute it to Herodotus, or perhaps an Egyptian Priest discussing matters with him, if only a clock striking the hour were not … slighty anachronistic. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/473 "2015-04-23T18:49:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why is manual labor “course and brutish”? There’s nothing at all wrong with manual labor and I’ve done far more than my share. But it’s pretty stupid to spend all day digging a ditch when you have the keys to a perfectly functional trench digger in your pocket. Egyptologists don’t say the builders were stupid and confused merely that they could only have used ramps and all their writing is incomprehensible gobbledty gook. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/474 "2015-04-23T18:58:08Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Egyptologists don’t say the builders were stupid and confused merely that they could only have used ramps… Which Egyptologists? > [@cladking](#): > > …and all their writing is incomprehensible gobbledty gook. If standard Egyptology is beyond your ability to understand, perhaps you should look into another field of interest? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/475 "2015-04-23T19:12:54Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The relentless straw-man arguments are a big part of it, at least for me, e.g.: There are no straw man arguments. Yes, I use some hyperbole to describe Egyptological beliefs but mostly I’m just stripping them down to the fundamentals. If Egyptologists translate a line in the PT to say gods shouldn’t walk in corpse dripping but rather tip toe and that their favorite Goddess (Isis) stank to high heaven then this really is implying they were stinky footed bumpkins. Egyptologists say these people lived and died to get buried and they believed in gods and magic. They say countless thousands of lives were wasted dragging tombs up ramps because the king was dying to die and the people didn’t value their own lives enough to refuse. There are no straw men here. This is what you have to believe on some level to accept Egyptological beliefs. We don’t have any problem with it baecause we know ancient people were sun addled and none too bright (they didn’t even have chemical factories, ya’ know). This is how we think of ancient people; hopelessly primitive, incapable, and nearly clueless. It’s similar to the way we think of robins or coyotes. > [@](#): > > Spiraling interior ramps aren’t coarse, or brutish. You’ve obviously never dragged a very heavy weight up a hill witrh many other people. I have. I did it because it was necessary but I didn’t build the hill. It was a highway “ramp”. It would only be brutish if there were no other options. > [@](#): > > Building a ramp in order to build the lower part of a pyramid, then progressively disassembling it in order to re-use the materials for the upper part of the pyramid, isn’t coarse or brutish; it’s clever. It wouldn’t work. You need to design it. It could be done if you pulled the ramp up but if you lift the ramp the easy way by pulling it up then why not pull the whole pyramid up? > [@](#): > > I don’t know much about the pyramids or Ancient Egypt, but even I know that the pyramid builders used multiple designs and multiple building techniques; they applied new knowledge to subsequent projects, just like we do. This is perfectluy logical and even a child can see it makes sense. The problem with it is that no means at all to lift stones is in evidence. The only thing in evidence is that they delivered stoines to the base of the pyramid and obviously pulled them straight up the side one step at a time. > [@](#): > > Further, having religious or mystical aspects in a culture doesn’t make the people “gobbledty gook spouting bumpkins”. To this day, most people on earth are religious, and mysticism is an important part of many peoples’ daily lives. I have to beg to differ. In my opinion every person on earth today is superstitious. Some moreso and some not so much. Everytime we take something on authority we are engaging in superstition. Many people can not accept the idea authority or state of the art can be wrong. They can’t accept the possibility that dogma is flawed. The ancient people were not superstitious. None of them at all. > [@](#): > > In short, I call b.s. on your characterization of how mainstream Egyptology, and lay people, view the Ancient Egyptians. This casts doubt upon all your other ideas, at least in my case. Maybe this is how you view authority. Maybe like most people you see only half the picture; the exterior from infinite distance. Everything has substance and seeing it in four dimensions is almost impossible for most people. Of course the only real way to get people to see how we can be so wrong is to get Egyptologists to do science. So exactly which superstition do you think is preventing the science from being done? Seriously, why is this question never answered? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/476 "2015-04-23T19:19:28Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I don’t know the original source of the Thirteenth Strike Rule; I’ve heard & used it all my life. Hardy might indeed be the one, but I’d be happy if it was Twain, Moto, or Chan. It’s one of those sayings that seems to have a frequent relevance. Apropos of nothing in particular and in keeping with the spirit of Thomas Hardy the Egyptians rang a bell every hour at night to help keep time; 1250a. Further, to say: O Swnt, who traverses the sky nine times in the night, Their math is sublimely complex but I should figure it out eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/477 "2015-04-23T19:21:52Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The ancient people were not superstitious. None of them at all. How could you possibly know this? > [@cladking](#): > > Everytime we take something on authority we are engaging in superstition. Look up “superstition” in the dictionary, please. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/478 "2015-04-23T19:22:15Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Of course the only real way to get people to see how we can be so wrong is to get Egyptologists to do science. So exactly which superstition do you think is preventing the science from being done? Seriously, why is this question never answered? Because the overwhelming evidence that we see here in this thread is that what you are doing is pseudo-science not science. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/479 "2015-04-23T19:26:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which Egyptologists? If standard Egyptology is beyond your ability to understand, perhaps you should look into another field of interest? Really?! It’s not so much I can’t understand Egyptology as it is that it is becoming obsolete. I didn’t come around to praise Egyptology, I came to bury it. The assumptions have been shown to be hollow. It has been proven ramps weren’t the only means to build and that there is no “cultural context”. The paradigm is a construct founded on quicksand. It will sink into history as an amusing aside. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/480 "2015-04-23T19:30:17Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The ancient people were not superstitious. None of them at all. There’s no way you (or anyone alive) could know this. We can’t read the minds of the living, much less the dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=25)