# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/41 "2014-12-08T15:13:14Z")
I don’t disbelieve you, but if I’m building the Egyptian pyramids I think I’d want to use rubble. It seems to me that squaring off all the interior stones would have consumed a shitload of manhours and resulted in great mounds of waste, all for something you can’t see. Of course, when you’re using slave labor then efficiency may not be the prime concern. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/42 "2014-12-08T15:47:54Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Sure we can, and did recently: > > [http://images55.fotki.com/v648/photos/0/1588090/8127415/adaLasVegasLuxorHotelandCasino-vi.jpg](http://images55.fotki.com/v648/photos/0/1588090/8127415/adaLasVegasLuxorHotelandCasino-vi.jpg) I was thinking of that. But if you want examples of modern pyramids that are more similar to ancient ones, you can find those, too. Something about this one looks modern: [http://pyramidvalley.org/eng/index.php/about-us/pyramid](http://pyramidvalley.org/eng/index.php/about-us/pyramid) This one isn’t quite as traditional in style, but also seems to be in the pyramid tradition. [http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp\_sociopol\_nwo77.htm](http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_nwo77.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/43 "2014-12-08T16:00:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Of course, when you’re using slave labor then efficiency may not be the prime concern. Currently accepted theory is that they weren’t slaves, but paid workers. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/44 "2014-12-08T16:40:52Z")
You know, if they were monolithic that would be a damn good indication of alien help. Each made from a single chunk of granite? With big piramid shaped holes in Gibraltar? That would be something beyond our skills. But they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/45 "2014-12-08T17:00:45Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Currently accepted theory is that they weren’t slaves, but paid workers. OK, ignorance fought! I stand corrected. Actually I’m sitting down corrected, to be more precise. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/46 "2014-12-08T17:13:25Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Why did aliens build the pyramids To win a bet. “I tell ya, show these primitives a little flash-bang and you can get 'em to do anything. Yes, **anything.** Watch, I’ll get 'em to spend 20 years building the hugest, most useless pile of rocks you ever saw!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/47 "2014-12-08T17:15:07Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Currently accepted theory is that they weren’t slaves, but paid workers. So, it was a jobs program. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/48 "2014-12-08T18:36:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t disbelieve you, but if I’m building the Egyptian pyramids I think I’d want to use rubble. It seems to me that squaring off all the interior stones would have consumed a shitload of manhours and resulted in great mounds of waste, all for something you can’t see. Of course, when you’re using slave labor then efficiency may not be the prime concern. Except that we now know that they didn’t in fact use slave labor. They actually treated their workers a lot better than it used to be assumed. As for the rubble aspect, I’m pretty sure the great pyramids on the Giza plateau are solid block with little or no rubble fill. I don’t think man hour efficiency was a prime consideration. I’ll see if I can find a cite showing the interior construction as I’m going from memory here…I know that some of the new world pyramids do in fact use rubble fill inside, and I think some of the older pre-pyramid mastaba construction used it as well, but I don’t think the great pyramids did. From what I recall they are made up of millions of limestone blocks (some say quarried, some say cast, though I don’t know what the current thinking on that is) with granite used for some of the interior spaces (tombs, chambers and the like). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/49 "2014-12-08T22:56:37Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > They’re tombs. Possibly a Cenotaph in at least one case. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/50 "2014-12-08T23:07:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > … As for the rubble aspect, I’m pretty sure the great pyramids on the Giza plateau are solid block with little or no rubble fill. I don’t think man hour efficiency was a prime consideration. I’ll see if I can find a cite showing the interior construction as I’m going from memory here…I know that some of the new world pyramids do in fact use rubble fill inside, and I think some of the older pre-pyramid mastaba construction used it as well, but I don’t think the great pyramids did. From what I recall they are made up of millions of limestone blocks (some say quarried, some say cast, though I don’t know what the current thinking on that is) with granite used for some of the interior spaces (tombs, chambers and the like). I would curious to know if the great pyramids on Giza are solid block - someone told me that the secret to building these pyramids was that the interior was NOT block. As a Pharaoh… my tomb is going to be solid block. None of these modern shortcuts!! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/51 "2014-12-08T23:10:18Z")
> [@K364](#): > > I would curious to know if the great pyramids on Giza are solid block - someone told me that the secret to building these pyramids was that the interior was NOT block. > > As a Pharaoh… my tomb is going to be solid block. None of these modern shortcuts!! No the three pyramids on Giza are not rubble filled. They are all blocks, with some holes, passageways, etc. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/52 "2014-12-09T00:20:30Z")
> [@K364](#): > > I would curious to know if the great pyramids on Giza are solid block - someone told me that the secret to building these pyramids was that the interior was NOT block. > > As a Pharaoh… my tomb is going to be solid block. None of these modern shortcuts!! Well, my google-fu skills are failing me tonight…either that, or I’m dead tired. I can’t find a quick, easy site that says that there is no fill (part of the problem is that I know there are web sites with the answer I’m looking for, but they get drowned out by all the freaking woo sites about the pyramids :p). The best I can do is from the [wiki on the Great Pyramid on Giza](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza): > [@](#): > > The volume, including an internal hillock, is roughly 2,500,000 cubic metres (88,000,000 cu ft).[5] Based on these estimates, building this in 20 years would involve installing approximately 800 tonnes of stone every day. Similarly, since it consists of an estimated 2.3 million blocks, completing the building in 20 years would involve moving an average of more than 12 of the blocks into place each hour, day and night. > [@](#): > > Materials > > The Great Pyramid consists of an estimated 2.3 million blocks which most believe to have been transported from nearby quarries. The Tura limestone used for the casing was quarried across the river. The largest granite stones in the pyramid, found in the “King’s” chamber, weigh 25 to 80 tonnes and were transported from Aswan, more than 800 km (500 mi) away. Traditionally, ancient Egyptians cut stone blocks by hammering wooden wedges into the stone which were then soaked with water. As the water was absorbed, the wedges expanded, causing the rock to crack. Once they were cut, they were carried by boat either up or down the Nile River to the pyramid.[17] It is estimated that 5.5 million tonnes of limestone, 8,000 tonnes of granite (imported from Aswan), and 500,000 tonnes of mortar were used in the construction of the Great Pyramid.[18] I think where this comes that what we see today IS the ‘inside’ of the pyramids on the Giza plateau…originally, the pyramids were covered in a white limestone casing (with a gold cap stone at the top), so what we see wasn’t really meant to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/53 "2014-12-09T00:41:08Z")
There was a lot of rubble fill in the core of the pyramids of Giza, though it is found [in the gaps between the blocks](http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidcore.htm#ixzz3LM9imLKv), some up to 22 centimeters wide: > [@](#): > > At first glance, the sides of the Giza Pyramids, stripped of most of their smooth outer casing during the Middle Ages, look like regular steps. These are actually the courses of backing stones, so called because they once filled in the space between the pyramid core and outer casing. However, a closer examination reveals that the steps are not at all regular. In fact, rather than regular, modular, squared blocks of stone neatly stocked, there is considerable “slop factor”, even in the Great Pyramid of Khufu. > > Not only are the backing stones irregular, they are also progressively smaller toward the top. Behind the backing stones, the core stones are actually even more irregular. We know this because, in the 1830s, Howard Vyse blasted a hole in the center of the south side of Khufu’s’s Pyramid while looking for another entrance. This wound in the pyramid can still be seen today, and in it, **we can see how the builders dumped great globs of mortar and stone rubble in wide spaces between the stones. Here, there are big blocks, small chunks of rock, wedge shaped pieces, oval and trapezoidal pieces, as well as smaller stone fragments jammed into spaces as wide as 22 centimeters between larger blocks.** ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/54 "2014-12-09T03:16:27Z")
how were they built? with stones. Stones. They used stones. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/55 "2014-12-09T05:53:30Z")
Personally I would like to see another Mount Rushmore style monument built in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/56 "2014-12-09T07:33:29Z")
> [@K364](#): > > I would curious to know if the great pyramids on Giza are solid block - someone told me that the secret to building these pyramids was that the interior was NOT block. > > As a Pharaoh… my tomb is going to be solid block. None of these modern shortcuts!! I intend to fill mine with the bones of the dead caused by my reign of terror, but I’m a romantic. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/57 "2014-12-09T14:53:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If I might ask a more serious question- I had always assumed that the Pyramids were a shitload of stone blocks, all the way to the core. I’ve recently read something that the stone blocks are only on the outside, that within each layer of stones is bunch of rubble. Makes sense to me- put up a square of stones, fill the interior with rubble, build a ramp, put up a slightly smaller square of stones fill interior with rubble, and so on. But I don’t think this is truly known one way or the other. I don’t know much about ground penetrating radar, but is this something we could determine by this or other nondestructive testing? To me, the rubble interior idea makes sense because in squaring off the stone blocks you’re going to make a shitload of debris, why not fill the interior with it? The Old Kingdom pyramids were mostly solid stone. However, later pyramids - for example, those build during the Middle Kingdom period - were built using rubble or mud-brick, with stone used more sparingly (for bracing and external cladding). Much cheaper and faster - more pyramid for less effort. However, they did not weather as well. This is the reason why the (older) Old Kingdom pyramids are still around today, while the (younger) Middle Kingdom pyramids have largely collapsed into piles of rubble. To correct a misconception upthread - the labour force with which the pyramids were built dod not consist of “slaves”, but neither did it consist of “paid workers”. The theory I have read was that it consisted of two groups: a relatively small group of experts, and a larger group of men paying their corvée labour tax. The Old Kingdom Egyptian state lacked money (it had not been invented yet) and so most things operated in terms of taxation in kind. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/58 "2014-12-09T15:06:34Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] To correct a misconception upthread - the labour force with which the pyramids were built dod not consist of “slaves”, but neither did it consist of “paid workers”. The theory I have read was that it consisted of two groups: a relatively small group of experts, and a larger group of men paying their corvée labour tax. The Old Kingdom Egyptian state lacked money (it had not been invented yet) and so most things operated in terms of taxation in kind. [/QUOTE] It depends on how you interpret ‘pay’. If by ‘pay’ you mean in money, then you are correct. As you noted, a lot of the common laborers were doing their labor as part of paying their taxes. They were, in addition however ‘paid’ in good and plentiful food, beer, housing and medical care, as well as other things, at least by some of the worker art and writing I’ve seen. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/59 "2014-12-09T15:24:40Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Personally I would like to see another Mount Rushmore style monument built in the US. I propose a colossal statue of our late lamented sovereign, [Emperor Norton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton). It should be at least three times the size of the statue of Liberty. And buck naked. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/60 "2014-12-09T15:44:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Personally I would like to see another Mount Rushmore style monument built in the US. > **[Crazy Horse Memorial®](https://crazyhorsememorial.org/)** > > Crazy Horse is the world's largest mountain carving located in the Black Hills of South Dakota. It is considered The Eighth Wonder of the World in progress. Just a few more rocks to carve and it’ll be there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=4)