# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/681 "2015-04-26T04:38:55Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Computer modeling is irrelevant. > > The only thing that matters is how they built the pyramid and this will only be discovered wiuth evidence. Computers can not find or interpret such evidence. :rolleyes: No wonder you fail at science, simulations are a very valuable tool to see how an idea is likely to work in real life, it can tell you then what to look for when one can get a good idea on how much material was needed, or how much pressure the channels can withstand, how the blocks then can be moved and worked. It can also guide the quest for evidence as then one can spot the most likely areas to explore to find the evidence to support your theory. I can tell you just by seeing a few images from some similar ideas that a lot of physics are not being used in the simulations. This is very important. If very simple physics are not used then the simulations are likely wrong and it is back to the drawing board until one can, for example, make a stone to be moved with a water counter weight or if the stone can be moved with just the water and how the gates worked to control the water. And then there is the complexity added by you by pointing out that the source of the water was not constant or there was no confidence that the geyser was going to be there for the whole project. I’m sorry but that uncertainty alone tells me that this is not a good idea to use when building a pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/682 "2015-04-26T05:51:48Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > They weren’t all that stable. “Stable and enduring” was the condition they sought. The geyser field extended 30 miles from Giza to the Fayuum and within this geyser field you could say the geysers were stable for probably at least 700 years. But individual geyser came and went. Water flows changed and some wells accumulated calcium carbonate while other wells eroded away until there was no pressure and had to be capped. . . . Have these wells or geyser pipes actually been discovered? Seems like they would be pretty easy to find. Where do you obtain these specific parameters? 30 miles? 700 years? What is the basis for this specificity? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/683 "2015-04-26T06:10:29Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Are you suggesting that these ancient scientists went 40,000 years without discovering one of the six simple machines (the inclined plane)? Of course they didn’t discover ramps.They were bumpkins. They merely moped around and used miraculously provided hydraulic power. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/684 "2015-04-26T13:30:47Z")
My word, **cladking** , you have a vivid imagination! ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/685 "2015-04-26T13:38:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Have these wells or geyser pipes actually been discovered? I believe they actually did use a short piece of pipe at the top of the well to attach the djed. This is open to some question. The pipe shaped drill bits have been found in some significant numbers. No used bits are known to my knowledge but pipes up to about 6" in diameter are known from the great pyramid building era. Vyse excavated the source of G1’s water to perhaps inches away. There is a long deep fissure just north of the north side and its deepest part is directly below the entrance. The “entrance” is where my theory predicts the water entered atop the pyraimid. This fissure was excavated until a 12 year old boy could get no deeper. There is most probably a round bored hole he couldn’t reach. > [@](#): > > Seems like they would be pretty easy to find. Anything you’re looking for is easy to find. Egyptologists are still looking for ramps and believe on will come up with the next scrape of the trowel. > [@](#): > > Where do you obtain these specific parameters? 30 miles? This is the distance between the northernmost and southernmost great pyramid. > [@](#): > > 700 years? What is the basis for this specificity? The drill was invented in 3500 BC and the last great pyramid was finished no earlier than 2800 BC according to the implications of C14 testing. Exact dating is difficult and very contingent on Egyptological interpretations. Saying at least 700 years seems safe enough as it was likely closer to 850 years. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/686 "2015-04-26T13:53:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The drill was invented 3500BC OFFS! What _now_… ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/687 "2015-04-26T14:10:35Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Are you suggesting that these ancient scientists went 40,000 years without discovering one of the six simple machines (the inclined plane)? Not at all. I’m suggesting it’s impossible for us to leave copious writings about our culture and never use the word “bridge”. It would be just as impossible for them to build the pyramids with ramps and never use the word “ramp” as it would be for you to run around the house three times without thinking of the word “elephant”. If they used ramps then many tens of thousands of men spent entire careers dragging stones on ramps and now Egyptologists say they even lived on the ramps. Where is the sign that says “Home Sweet Ramp”? Where is the goddess of ramps that protected the workers from falls, heat stroke and being crushed to death? Where is the tomb of the “overseer of stone draggers” or the “chief ramp archetect”? Why didn’t Merrer contact the “ramp forman” when he delivered casing stones to Giza? RAMPS ARE WHOLLY INCONSISTENT WITH THE ANCIENT CULTURE AND THEY ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. Ancient ramps didn’t spring into existence in the pyramid building age the first time some Egyptologist said “they mustta used ramps”. This is why the word didn’t spring into existence either. It is unattested because they diudn’t used ramps to build pyramids. This lack of attestation means one of two things and I believe both. It either means they didn’t use ramps or Egyptologists are simply lying to themselves when they say there’s a mountain of evidence. They did not use ramps and there’s no evidence they did. While there’s very very little evidence it ALL agrees that they pulled stones straight up the side one step at a time. This is a simple fact. They pulled them up because it was the easy way with no fuss and no muss. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/688 "2015-04-26T14:17:02Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I believe they actually did use a short piece of pipe at the top of the well to attach the djed. This is open to some question. The pipe shaped drill bits have been found in some significant numbers. No used bits are known to my knowledge but pipes up to about 6" in diameter are known from the great pyramid building era. You have claimed that you would provide citations for explicit questions. I am now asking to see a citation for “pipe shaped drill bits have been found in some significant numbers.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/689 "2015-04-26T14:17:12Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/690 "2015-04-26T14:20:19Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > My word, **cladking** , you have a vivid imagination! I can even imagine several other ways the pyramids could have been built with no ramps. The only problem with each of them is that there is no evidence to support them. There are small aspects of some that were employed for specific tasks in reality though probably. Testing will be required to prove it. The hardest thing for me to imagine is why Egyptologists think “they mustta used ramps”. They should either get out more or hire someone who does. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/691 "2015-04-26T14:27:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You have claimed that you would provide citations for explicit questions. I am now asking to see a citation for “pipe shaped drill bits have been found in some significant numbers.” [http://www.gizapyramids.org/static/pdf%20library/reisner\_gn\_books/giza\_necropolis\_2/plates\_1to12.pdf](http://www.gizapyramids.org/static/pdf%20library/reisner_gn_books/giza_necropolis_2/plates_1to12.pdf) figure 154 pg 300; [http://www.globale-evolution.net/images/media/292.pdf](http://www.globale-evolution.net/images/media/292.pdf) There are more but these two are at hand and are more recent finds I believe. There’s really little doubt that they used pipe to drill and the drill was invented in 3500BC. Like all dating though in ancient Egypt is is probably very accurate relatively but can be off absolutely. The data tying it to our timeline is highly suspect at best. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/692 "2015-04-26T14:46:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You cannot _possibly_ be referring to your first link with this statement, can you? That round object “he” is “pushing” up is supposed to be a _pyramid_, and you think “he” is standing on a pedestal because “he” is standing in a shallow dam? In one hand he is pushing up the pyramid. His right hand is the dominant and important hand and his chief function which is pushing up the pyramid. His left hand is typically “otherwise engaged”. The “whidden hole” on the east side of G1 is the ruins of the min. this held two floats in the water and a long timber across them. the dndndr-boat sat on the timbere so that as they added 2 1/2 ton stones to the boat it would sink into the min and they could load all the stones at the same level. The system had about a 14 minute cycle time so they were always “on the clock”. They didn’t have time to stack stones on the boat. [![](http://www.egyptianmyths.net/images/min.jpg) ](http://www.egyptianmyths.net/images/min.jpg) [![](http://www.gizapower.com/Articles/shaft3x.gif) ](http://www.gizapower.com/Articles/shaft3x.gif) This device is so huge it can be seen from space but Egyptologists overlook it and simply put a fence around it so tourists don’t fall in. It has a shallow dam around it to make it more effective and easily controlled. This dam is represented by the pedestal on which min stands. (I do not support whidden’s theory on the usage of this hole but Egyptologists never even named it) ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/693 "2015-04-26T14:58:37Z")
Here you can see the min below center on the left side; [![](http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5628/65616424.80/0_8e7fe_7a1b043c_XXL.jpeg) ](http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5628/65616424.80/0_8e7fe_7a1b043c_XXL.jpeg) This was downtown central for construction and is where all the stationary infrastructure was located. The mason’s shop is left center and extended nearly to the min. Stones arrived from the quarry just above the so calkled boat pit in the center. You can see the low dam around the min. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/694 "2015-04-26T15:18:04Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Not at all. > > I’m suggesting it’s impossible for us to leave copious writings about our culture and never use the word “bridge”. It would be just as impossible for them to build the pyramids with ramps and never use the word “ramp” as it would be for you to run around the house three times without thinking of the word “elephant”. If they used ramps then many tens of thousands of men spent entire careers dragging stones on ramps and now Egyptologists say they even lived on the ramps. Where is the sign that says “Home Sweet Ramp”? Where is the goddess of ramps that protected the workers from falls, heat stroke and being crushed to death? Where is the tomb of the “overseer of stone draggers” or the “chief ramp archetect”? Why didn’t Merrer contact the “ramp forman” when he delivered casing stones to Giza? > > RAMPS ARE WHOLLY INCONSISTENT WITH THE ANCIENT CULTURE AND THEY ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. > > Ancient ramps didn’t spring into existence in the pyramid building age the first time some Egyptologist said “they mustta used ramps”. This is why the word didn’t spring into existence either. It is unattested because they diudn’t used ramps to build pyramids. This lack of attestation means one of two things and I believe both. It either means they didn’t use ramps or Egyptologists are simply lying to themselves when they say there’s a mountain of evidence. They did not use ramps and there’s no evidence they did. While there’s very very little evidence it ALL agrees that they pulled stones straight up the side one step at a time. > > This is a simple fact. They pulled them up because it was the easy way with no fuss and no muss. Of course, you could me mistaken that the pyramid texts are construction manuals, rather than religious texts. That’d explain it neatly. But, I see that you’ve been at [this internet crusade](http://historum.com/ancient-history/67052-great-pyramid-ramp-system-17.html) for at least five years. In that time, you’ve surely heard every point and counterpoint I’m likely to muster. For you, it “mustta been geysers”; I can’t compete with a closed mind. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/695 "2015-04-26T15:25:41Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > [http://www.gizapyramids.org/static/pdf%20library/reisner\_gn\_books/giza\_necropolis\_2/plates\_1to12.pdf](http://www.gizapyramids.org/static/pdf%20library/reisner_gn_books/giza_necropolis_2/plates_1to12.pdf) > > figure 154 pg 300; > > [http://www.globale-evolution.net/images/media/292.pdf](http://www.globale-evolution.net/images/media/292.pdf) > > There are more but these two are at hand and are more recent finds I believe. > > There’s really little doubt that they used pipe to drill and the drill was invented in 3500BC. Like all dating though in ancient Egypt is is probably very accurate relatively but can be off absolutely. The data tying it to our timeline is highly suspect at best. Again your cites don’t show what you say they show. Have you even looked at them? The first are struts from a baldequin of sorts, there’s even pictures of how it all fitted together. The second is copper piping, that according to the text, was a drain. No drills apparent at all. ---
**Author:** ![parkona\_driveway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@parkona\_driveway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parkona_driveway)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/696 "2015-04-26T15:29:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > But, I see that you’ve been at [this internet crusade](http://historum.com/ancient-history/67052-great-pyramid-ramp-system-17.html) for at least five years. I believe cladking has acknowledged a nine-year history of studying the issue. Here’s an early example: > **[The pyramids were built using anti-gravity ma](https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/83873-the-pyramids-were-built-using-anti-gravity-ma/)** > > The ancient Egyptians used anti-gravity machines to build the pyramids. The machines were called levers, cranes, bull dozers, backhoes, ropes, inertia, principles of motion. They work every time. Some people think the ancient people were ignorant... ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/697 "2015-04-26T15:32:14Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Of course, you could me mistaken that the pyramid texts are construction manuals, rather than religious texts. That’d explain it neatly. > > But, I see that you’ve been at [this internet crusade](http://historum.com/ancient-history/67052-great-pyramid-ramp-system-17.html) for at least five years. In that time, you’ve surely heard every point and counterpoint I’m likely to muster. For you, it “mustta been geysers”; I can’t compete with a closed mind. Of course, I’ve heard it all and yet the theory stands and ramps are debunked. You’re right that for me it is kind of “it mustta been geysers” but in this case I believe it was probably geysers solely because this is where all the evidence points. If any part of the theory could be shown invalid or if new evidence came along I’d drop it in a heartbeat. Of course I can see weak evidence for all manner of the ideas out there and ramps aren’t quite as “stupid” as I paint them but the evidence still suggests geysers. I say this because I consider that the stones were pulled straight up the side one step at a time because this is reasonably well established. In fifty years people will shake their heads in wonder that we can’t see it all along. The common wisdom will be that 6 1/2 million tons couldn’t have been dragged up ramps. I’m just trying to get ahead of this curve a little bit. People can deny that they used geysers and they can still be right but if they are then the gods missed a chance to do it the way it was evidenced. I believe that the reason people can’t destroy this theory is probably that it is correct. I believe even Egyptologists are starting to scramble to justify their beliefs vis a vis a superior idea. To my knowledge though, they still aren’t doing the testing. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/698 "2015-04-26T15:40:25Z")
> [@parkona\_driveway](#): > > I believe cladking has acknowledged a nine-year history of studying the issue. Here’s an early example: > > [The pyramids were built using anti-gravity ma - Ancient Mysteries and Alternative History - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums](http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83873&#entry1457419) In those early days all I had was a gut belief that they probably employed the weight of water to lift stones and no evidence it couldn’t have been done that way. All my beliefs have undergone a lot of change in the intervening years as this enigma seems to be unfolding. Yes, perhaps I assumed the conclusion but the evidence is real even if I sought it preferentially. I can’t make up what the builders literally said or the physical evidence that survives. I still know no good reason it wasn’t geysers. Of course there are still minor inconsistencies to be ironed out and there always will be because this is the nature of reality and any kind of science. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/699 "2015-04-26T15:44:56Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Of course there are still minor inconsistencies to be ironed out and there always will be because this is the nature of reality and any kind of science. Any real scientist, ancient or modern, knows that true discovery is only found in these inconsistencies. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/700 "2015-04-26T15:51:50Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Of course, I’ve heard it all and yet the theory stands and ramps are debunked. Except for the part where you’ve presented something that rises to the level of theory and the part where ramps have been debunked you’re 100% correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=36)