# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/962 "2015-04-29T18:27:57Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > So I said something that has been said before. It doesn’t mean my motives or reasons are the same and it doesn’t mean it is some sort of tactic. It doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Thing is, even metaphysically speaking, you are wrong. 🙂 , the idea that scientists are just like religious people fails the moment you see how many ideas they are dealing with can be falsified and then they will look where the data from the falsification is going to lead them. It is indeed a very bad idea, and not grounded in reality, to continue to avoid what needs to be done when physical tools, matter, structure, and engineering need to be explained so then others can then agree or support you. > [@cladking](#): > > The fact is I can’t find a modern scientist who can even agree that in the real world one plus one doesn’t always equal two. Math is a natural logic but it can’t perfectly apply to the real world in any case because no two things are identical. The differences found are in any real case quantifiable, so then others can see and push the science forward. What you have proposed in the end is really magic. Not a thing that will show up if you want to press the point that your theories do refer to items that did left us with physical evidence. > [@cladking](#): > > This is a remarkably simple concept that eludes everyone. We all see reality in terms of models and paradigms and most of these from the simplest to the most complex are rarely considered by individuals. There is no logic in “I think therefore I am” and this lies at the very heart of most peoples’ reality. Reality isn’t dependent on the individual or the means by which he thinks; language. Precisely the point, by refusing to consider the use of modern technology, models and experts you only have shown so far a refusal of following that. History has shown that progress and technological advances do not depend on the beliefs of people, once the reality of a phenomenon has been explained others that do not depend on believing or knowing all the intricacies can use it. We use computers to communicate with each other, and yet it is very hard to find anyone that does know how all the devises and networks do their job. Eventually anyone that pretends to know the whole truth about something that is supposed to be a game changer but does not want to explain it properly to others is only asking to not leave any legacy whatsoever, once they leave this world. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/963 "2015-04-29T18:29:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ramps, huh? cool. No, not cool at all. Inded, if they had actually used such a method thousands would have died of heaty stroke and they’d have to just toss the bodies off the side to continue work. Working in a desert when it’s 110 degrees is beyond most people. It wasn’t easier just because they were primitive and didn’t know an easirer way. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/964 "2015-04-29T18:31:58Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Scientific metaphysics … There seems to be a misprint here. What two words did you actually mean to put next to each other in this post? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/965 "2015-04-29T18:34:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Thing is, even metaphysically speaking, you are wrong. 🙂 , the idea that scientists are just like religious people fails the moment you see how many ideas they are dealing with can be falsified and then they will look where the data from the falsification is going to lead them. Scientists aren’t “just like” religious people and I never said nor intended to imply such a thing. Scientists are just like all people today who speak modern languages. On average they take less for granted but they are still beholden to the means by which they percieve reality; their models and paradigms. Of course these models have many aspects that are reproducuible in the lab so we know these aspects reflect reality as determined by experiment. But this doesn’t mean our model applies to reality. It does not but we believe in them anyway until new experiments overturn it. You shouldn’t read things into what I say. I mean only what I say and I mean it literally unless it’s obviously some literary device or a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/966 "2015-04-29T18:35:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Next up: **cladking** will explain how “Green Eggs And Ham” is in actuality a step-by-step instruction manual for building a car engine that runs on Mountain Dew. Yeah, we’re really through the Looking Glass here. At first he seemed like someone with a crazy idea and no evidence, but he’s gone well beyond that lately. Now we’re solidly into denying reality and making stuff up wholesale. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/967 "2015-04-29T18:42:28Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Normally when I quote Egyptologists one of two things apply; either it is well known Egyptological opinion OR it is common opinion ass viewed from my perspective. In other words, you prefer to hide behind an unsupported claim that it is “common knowledge” (that no one else has encountered). As to your perspective, that is known as confirmation bias. You begin with a belief, find a random phrase that does not mean what you want to think it does, then claim that you have “found” that the Egyptologists have said it because it matches what you want to believe they said. This is part and parcel of your accusations that they talk about “stinky footed bumpkins” or “superstitious” Egyptians when Egyptologists do not speak of such things–only you do. So, again, you provide no reason for anyone else to believe your imagined claims. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/968 "2015-04-29T18:42:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There seems to be a misprint here. What two words did you actually mean to put next to each other in this post? This highlights exactly the problem. Every single word every single one of us uses is deconstructed by the listener. This process goes astray in every instance because just as 1 + 1 can’tt equal two when no two things are alike no word is deconstructed exactly as the speaker intends. Everyone always walks away with a different meaning. Modern languages are still “confused”. I can’t get through because people deconstruct the meaning and aleways hear “ramps”. One of the definitions of “metaphysics” is “the means by which knowledge is acquired”. Scientific metaphysics is a very poorly understood subject becausae it is mentioned in first grade and then never again. Science has no meaning outside its metaphysics but we still extrapolate and interpolate the meaning of experiment and theory. We misapply our knowledge just as we misapply math in every instance. This is the way we think. We can’t see we do it and can’t see every listener has a different understanding. We are left to count the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin just like Egyptologists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/969 "2015-04-29T18:45:41Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > One of the definitions of “metaphysics” is “the means by which knowledge is acquired”. I’m calling bullshit, Unless you can provide a proper cite for that definition of “metaphysics”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/970 "2015-04-29T19:00:27Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > No, not cool at all. Inded, if they had actually used such a method thousands would have died of heaty stroke and they’d have to just toss the bodies off the side to continue work. > > Working in a desert when it’s 110 degrees is beyond most people. It wasn’t easier just because they were primitive and didn’t know an easirer way. Please, once again: **the very big ramp idea is used here as a straw man**. No one that is being taken seriously takes it into account, and then: Please, entire armies in the north African desert endured worse temperatures and even tank crews cooked eggs in the side of their tanks in WWII in northern Africa and Egypt, and still had to enter them with no air conditioning to do battle. You see, the problem is that there is a lot of items were you are demonstratively wrong, that all those items repeatedly told to you do not modify your presentation only demonstrates that indeed evidence and reality is not being used by you. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/971 "2015-04-29T19:01:12Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The first heaven was the ssm.t apron on the horizon that defined the pyramid. It was the eye of horus. The second heaven and most important was 81’ 3" anbd was the height the geyser sprayed or the altitude of the upper eye of horus on the wing of geb. The top most heaven (do the math) was the apex of the pyramid where the ka and ba of the dead king met. What, every geyser always reached exactly 81’ 3"? 709b. when the course is set for the boat of Rē‘, 709c. to his fields which are in the ’iȝś.w-part of heaven, No fields 81’ up a pyramid. 819c. Behold, he is come (again) as Śȝḥ; behold, Osiris is come as Śȝḥ. 820a. lord of the wine-cellar at the Wȝg-feast, 820b. “good,” as his mother said; “heir,” as his father said, 820c. conceived by heaven, born of the Dwȝ.t. 820d. Heaven conceives thee together with S’ȝḥ; 81’ up a pyramid can’t conceive of a geyser, so if heaven is a height and Osiris is a geyser, it doesn’t fit. Now, if it’s a mystical realm of fields where spirits go, it fits fine, but that sure is mystical superstition, right there. > [@cladking](#): > > “God” meant “natural phenomenon” and horus the elder was phenomenon of this land somewhat like “Yellow Springs, Ohio”. So a natural phenomenon was murdered by his brother in a struggle for the throne? > [@cladking](#): > > You won’t understand them anyway. It’s impossible to understand the ancient language if you deconstruct the words. It has become painfully apparent to me that people can’t read things without deconstructing and parsing the meaning. We must learn how to do this to speak as children and then it becomes ingrained. So rather than go to the effort to dig things out that just looks like gobbledty gook to readers here’s what Egyptologistts have to say and we all know they can’t be wrong about anything because Egyptology is a science. > > "Hence, in the famous ‘Famine Stela’ from Sehel Island, Khnum appears to King Djoser in a dream and states, “I am Khnum, your maker! My arms are around you, to steady your body, to safeguard your limbs,” > > “similarly, in the statue inscription of Djedkhonsefankh, Djedkhonsefankh praises Khnum for having “fashioned me as one effective, an adviser of excellent counsel.” > > “In PT utterance 300 Khnum is said to have been the maker of a netherworld ferry-boat, strongly implying that these boats are at least in certain cases to be understood as equivalent to the bodily ‘vehicle’.” > > “It is Khnum who made the seven Khnums, Builder of Builders who created what exists,” > > It seems to me that if they had a god to build things and safegaurd peoples’ limbs then they cared about health and safety which is also exemplified by the fact they set bones and performed brain operations (not too much in terms of rocket science though). None of that is anything like an instruction to avoid low-lying CO2. I asked about other safety instructions in the pyramid texts, since you said 722 was a safety instruction for lay people. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/972 "2015-04-29T19:02:30Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The meanings and words in the PT are consistent. Every word always means the same thing. Would you mind giving us a demonstration? Please translate [this piece](http://www.ancient-egypt.org/_v3d/language/writing/demotic_sample.jpg)of Egyptian writing. Or if not a translation, tell us what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/973 "2015-04-29T19:10:49Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > How does an eye speak? By being a mystical manifestation of a mystical god; same way Zeus got ladies pregnant as a beam of light and God appeared to Moses as a burning bush. > [@cladking](#): > > This is where Egyptologists really dropped the ball. They simply went with the nonsense and interpreted it accordingly. It never even crossed their minds that Egyptians didn’t think like Egyptologists because they are locked into their own reality. It isn’t nonsense, it’s a pretty coherent set of narratives and instructions. You realize that religion isn’t nonsense to the religious people themselves, right? > [@cladking](#): > > I’m not really sure it’s worth my time or your’s to explain this but I’ll try. To the ancients it required active participation of the viewer and they eye to see. The eye imparted the means by which things could be seen. A man needed to practice “heka” (proper scirentific observation) at all times to be strong and effective. In a world operated by metaphysical language (science) effective speech (proper scientific observation and understanding) is the norm. Observation is power and for the eye of the natural phenomenon of the land of rainbows the power to lift stones was emitted. > > The “soul” of the king is being transmogrified into the geyser such that he can lift himself to heaven which is rooted in the spirits (the CO2) in the water. By this means the reconstructed system (after it was destroyed by water; set) can again lift the horuses (horus the younger; stone). Horus has avenged the destruction of the means to lift stones 70’ on G1 by being lifted by a new system to 81’ 3". Thanks for trying, I guess. All I see is an extreme effort to insert geysers into and delete gods from the PT, by having about 90% of the meaning of the text be cloaked in interpretations that one living human, you, are able to divine. Oddly, in light of your views on religion, what you’re engaged in is essentially revelation. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/974 "2015-04-29T19:24:25Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > One of the definitions of “metaphysics” is “the means by which knowledge is acquired”. Scientific metaphysics is a very poorly understood subject becausae it is mentioned in first grade and then never again. Science has no meaning outside its metaphysics but we still extrapolate and interpolate the meaning of experiment and theory. We misapply our knowledge just as we misapply math in every instance. This is the way we think. We can’t see we do it and can’t see every listener has a different understanding. We are left to count the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin just like Egyptologists. . thats some grade A BS right there. [QUOTE=[http://www.scientificmetaphysics.org/](http://www.scientificmetaphysics.org/)] The IMS offers regular seminars, workshops, discussions and open houses that explore the many areas of metaphysical science and ways to apply this thinking in our daily lives. Scientific Metaphysics is an inquiry into the nature of Reality and the science of being. This inquiry includes exploring the fundamental nature of human being, what makes each of us unique – and what’s present when we, as human beings, show up. The dimension of self-discovering that occurs inside the study of Scientific Metaphysics has you live with peace, joy, and full self-expression. Join with us in the inquiry! [/QUOTE] Calling something “scientific” does not make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/975 "2015-04-29T19:29:12Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > No, not cool at all. Inded, if they had actually used such a method thousands would have died of heaty stroke and they’d have to just toss the bodies off the side to continue work. > > Working in a desert when it’s 110 degrees is beyond most people. It wasn’t easier just because they were primitive and didn’t know an easirer way. Quite likely, they worked early in the morning when the sun was rising, and late evening when the sun is setting, and took a long break in the middle of the day when the heat was too much to bear. This, as far as I understand it, is a practice still followed by builders in hot countries. As a wise man once said: \*Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun, The Japanese don´t care to, the Chinese wouldn’t dare to, Hindus and Argentines sleep firmly from twelve to one But Englishmen detest-a siesta. In the Philippines they have lovely screens to protect you from the glare. In the Malay States, there are hats like plates which the Britishers won’t wear. At twelve noon the natives swoon and no further work is done, But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun. \* ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/976 "2015-04-29T19:36:41Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > No, not cool at all. Inded, if they had actually used such a method thousands would have died of heaty stroke and they’d have to just toss the bodies off the side to continue work. > > Working in a desert when it’s 110 degrees is beyond most people. It wasn’t easier just because they were primitive and didn’t know an easirer way. Well, that’d explain why the Hebrews wanted out of bondage. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/977 "2015-04-29T19:41:55Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Scientific metaphysics very carefully excluded such concepts but it also excluded the concept that reality exists at all other than the degree to which we can design experiments it can affect. This was the philosophy at the time that metaphysics was formalized. Of course now days we are drifting away from it anyway. This is utter nonsense and has nothing to do with metaphysics. It is bad enough that you want to claim to understand ancient Egyptian in a way that no one else in the world is able to understand, but now you are inventing meaning for English. There are two meanings of the word metaphysics, nether of which is “scientific.” The first is the word applied to the writings of Aristotle in the book following (meta) his Physics that refers to the studies of the non-material world or our understanding of meaning, but neither is “science” or “scientific.” The second is the way that the word was taken by Blavatsky and other frauds, and it is also not related to science. As to the actual assertion, _Cogito, ergo sum_: Descartes was looking to establish what he could know about anything. He even questioned whether he could know that he existed. However, he reasoned, if he was thinking about the issue, then someone had to be doing that thinking, so he clearly did exist, (even if he was the extension of the imagination of some other being, he at least existed in their imagination). So your claim that it was not logical is false. Beyond that, rather few people in the world spend that sort of time or effort trying to determine whether or not they are, themselves, real, so the claim that modern thought is based on that statement is just bullshit. > [@cladking](#): > > The statement is logical from the perspective of some individual who speaks modern language. But if the individual speaks any kind of language it follows he exists in spite of the “logic”. The statement would be more attuned to reality or the human condition if it just ended after “I think” or “I have language”. Whether people today consider this “proof” is important or not many of the things we do believe today spring from this. Nothing we believe, today, “springs from” that quote and your belief in that assertion tends to point out your own disconnect from reality. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/978 "2015-04-29T20:00:43Z")
That poor shark has been jumped so many times that clad is getting frequent flier miles at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/979 "2015-04-29T20:18:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > . . . I have never met human who based any of there understanding of reality based on that sentence. . . . I do! (Actually, for me, it’s “I perceive, therefore I am.”) It forms the absolute bottom-most baseline below which skepticism cannot go. The entire world might be an illusion, a dream, a holodeck sim – but my own perceptions cannot be. (Except…heh! They are! They’re illusions produced by neuronal activity. But that depends on accepting the idea of neurons, which depends on accepting some of the terms of the world-illusion, and so…) Anyway, yeah, at least some of us rely on Cartesian doubt and Cartesian certainty as a basis for thinking (?) about our cosmos. Sorry for highjack; I’ll go back to Egypt now. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/980 "2015-04-29T21:32:38Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is utter nonsense and has nothing to do with metaphysics. It is bad enough that you want to claim to understand ancient Egyptian in a way that no one else in the world is able to understand, but now you are inventing meaning for English. > > There are two meanings of the word metaphysics, nether of which is “scientific.” > The first is the word applied to the writings of Aristotle in the book following (meta) his Physics that refers to the studies of the non-material world or our understanding of meaning, but neither is “science” or “scientific.” > The second is the way that the word was taken by Blavatsky and other frauds, and it is also not related to science. > > As to the actual assertion, _Cogito, ergo sum_: Descartes was looking to establish what he could know about anything. He even questioned whether he could know that he existed. However, he reasoned, if he was thinking about the issue, then someone had to be doing that thinking, so he clearly did exist, (even if he was the extension of the imagination of some other being, he at least existed in their imagination). So your claim that it was not logical is false. > Beyond that, rather few people in the world spend that sort of time or effort trying to determine whether or not they are, themselves, real, so the claim that modern thought is based on that statement is just bullshit. > > Nothing we believe, today, “springs from” that quote and your belief in that assertion tends to point out your own disconnect from reality. No two people can seem to even agree on the meaning of a word so, obviously, no two people are going to agree on the importance or meaning of an entire book. But I believe this is one of the most important books written in the last 250 years. > **[The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science: Burtt, E. A.: 9780486425511:...](https://www.amazon.com/Metaphysical-Foundations-Modern-Science/dp/0486425517)** > > The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science \[Burtt, E. A.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science This wasn’t a starting off point for my study of metaphysics but it certainly accelerated it when I read it as a child. Of course my views of the subject have been very much affected by coming to rediscover the metaphysical foundations of ancient science. My views have been very much affected by coming to see the effects of language on metaphysics in general and modern science specifically. Things are not what I believed they were just a few short years ago. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/981 "2015-04-29T21:42:37Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I do! (Actually, for me, it’s “I perceive, therefore I am.”) It forms the absolute bottom-most baseline below which skepticism cannot go. The entire world might be an illusion, a dream, a holodeck sim – but my own perceptions cannot be. > > (Except…heh! They are! They’re illusions produced by neuronal activity. But that depends on accepting the idea of neurons, which depends on accepting some of the terms of the world-illusion, and so…) > > Anyway, yeah, at least some of us rely on Cartesian doubt and Cartesian certainty as a basis for thinking (?) about our cosmos. > > Sorry for highjack; I’ll go back to Egypt now. The Egyptians would chuckle. The ancient science’s first axiom was reality exists and it lies outside the observer. The first corollary was that the observer’s senses could deceive him so scientific observation and theory was needed to combat this. To the Egyptians it would be futile to even struggle if the world were an illusion. A rabbit doesn’t ponder the meaning of a fox or look for the right word to describe a fox; it merely runs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=50)