# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/81 "2015-01-05T01:23:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Plenty of answers in this “ancient” tome](http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Engineers-L-Sprague-Camp/dp/0880294566/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417960956&sr=1-2&keywords=Ancient+Engineers). BAM! That. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/82 "2015-01-05T06:41:21Z")
> [@susan](#): > > And done one better: [Carhenge - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carhenge) That must be where all the mechanical wizards go to observe the Solstices 😛 I’ve actually been to the Maryhill Stonehenge, though it was a long time ago, and I was young enough that I didn’t appreciate what I was looking at. It isn’t that far from where I grew up. ETA: Gratuitous Spinal Tap “Stonehenge”: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ec1WaFrK8E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ec1WaFrK8E) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/83 "2015-01-07T22:21:41Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > By that time, the Romans and Greeks knew about things like pulleys and wheels that the Egyptians didn’t have. > > It is a perfectly genuine mystery how the Egyptians did it. It’s well known how the Romans and Greeks did it. I hesitate to give publicity to woo, but there is still some astonishment at the feats of the Romans. The Stone of the Pregnant Woman weighs a thousand tons, and there are two even larger stones nearby that were not finished. > **[Baalbek Stones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_the_Pregnant_Woman)** > > The Baalbek Stones are six massive Roman worked stone blocks in Baalbek (ancient Heliopolis), Lebanon, characterised by a megalithic gigantism unparallelled in antiquity. How the stones were moved from where they were quarried to their final locations is uncertain. > The smaller three are part of a podium wall in the Roman complex of the Temple of Jupiter Baal (Heliopolitan Zeus) are known as the "Trilithon". Each of these is estimated at 750–800 tonnes (830–880 short tons). The quarry was slightl... I’m sure you’ll find that someone will claim that the Romans had alien help to carve and move these stones, even though this is within the historical era. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/84 "2015-01-07T23:10:00Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > I hesitate to give publicity to woo, but there is still some astonishment at the feats of the Romans. The Stone of the Pregnant Woman weighs a thousand tons, and there are two even larger stones nearby that were not finished. > [Baalbek Stones - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_the_Pregnant_Woman) > I’m sure you’ll find that someone will claim that the Romans had alien help to carve and move these stones, even though this is within the historical era. The Ancient Aliens guy with the wild hair claimed it was a landing pad for alien space craft. I’ll see if I can find a link later, but it was hilarious (I’m not sure if he said the aliens carved it though). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/85 "2015-01-08T21:00:49Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > OK, so let’s say that you’re part of a group that’s due for conscription. If you wait for Lady Luck, you may get a cushy job or a bad one, an interesting job or one where your biggest problems are boredom and not being allowed to scratch your nose. If you volunteer and are accepted, the job is longer but you pick it. Would you volunteer? > > I just described the situation re. volunteer vs. conscript soldiers in Spain during the 100+ years our low-level ranks were conscripted. I’ve been listening to an ancient civilizations audio course my wife gave me. After the Nile flooded, it took a while for the water to recede and the land dry out enough to allow planting. Perfect time for some pyramid duty, especially when the government would feed you. However they took enough resources that they might be considered partially responsible for the end of the dynasty. And they weren’t built in later times because the Pharaohs figured out that they pyramids were a big “I’m buried here” sign for later grave robbers. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/86 "2015-01-09T00:06:29Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > … > To correct a misconception upthread - the labour force with which the pyramids were built dod not consist of “slaves”, but neither did it consist of “paid workers”. The theory I have read was that it consisted of two groups: a relatively small group of experts, and a larger group of men paying their corvée labour tax. The Old Kingdom Egyptian state lacked money (it had not been invented yet) and so most things operated in terms of taxation in kind. Right, it’s plausible that the workers, or at least a large percentage of them, were free citizens performing a national service obligation, sort of like how military conscription has happened in more modern times. You could argue that getting drafted is a form of unfree labor - but it isn’t chattel slavery. You kept many of your rights and you would get all of them back after fulfilling your two years or whatever of service. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/87 "2015-01-09T10:22:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve been listening to an ancient civilizations audio course my wife gave me. After the Nile flooded, it took a while for the water to recede and the land dry out enough to allow planting. Perfect time for some pyramid duty, especially when the government would feed you. This would be the main workforce, to do the hauling work. In addition there would have been professionals, I suspect that even the masons were professionals. Certainly the overseers and mathematicians would have been professionals. Besides, I think the idea that the Greeks “invented” maths not very plausible. The Egyptians, Persians and other mesopotamian builders must have had earlier forms of maths. It’s just the Greek version that is the latest and that has survived in writing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/88 "2015-01-09T16:23:11Z")
> [@dopestraight](#): > > \*\*How were the pyramids in Egypt built? \*\* Like this: You get credit for every giant-stone-block mover you recruit, and they (and you!) get credit for every one **they** recruit, and so on. Of course, the real money is in these motivational scrolls all recruits are expected to buy . . . ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/89 "2015-01-09T16:30:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Like this: You get credit for every giant-stone-block mover you recruit, and they (and you!) get credit for every one **they** recruit, and so on. > > Of course, the real money is in these motivational scrolls all recruits are expected to buy . . . Okay, I giggled. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/90 "2015-01-09T16:31:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Like this: You get credit for every giant-stone-block mover you recruit, and they (and you!) get credit for every one **they** recruit, and so on. > > Of course, the real money is in these motivational scrolls all recruits are expected to buy . . . So, what you are saying is this whole thing was just one vast pyramid scheme??? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/91 "2015-01-09T20:22:19Z")
See post #17, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/92 "2015-01-09T23:13:03Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > This would be the main workforce, to do the hauling work. In addition there would have been professionals, I suspect that even the masons were professionals. > Certainly the overseers and mathematicians would have been professionals. Certainly. But a small percentage, I’d think. > [@](#): > > Besides, I think the idea that the Greeks “invented” maths not very plausible. > The Egyptians, Persians and other mesopotamian builders must have had earlier forms of maths. It’s just the Greek version that is the latest and that has survived in writing. There seem to be various theories about how they did the math. I think I’ve heard of some very early pyramids which were badly built and which collapsed, but I can’t find any cites at the moment. I’ve found some indication of later pyramids built on bad foundations which collapsed, but I’m interested in finding evidence of a learning curve. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/93 "2015-01-09T23:37:45Z")
Sure, but the first mastabas were built around 3500 bc, the Gizeh pyramids were built some 1000 years later. Plenty of time for a bit of a learning curve ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/94 "2015-01-10T00:11:32Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, like those notorious brown people who had alien assistance building Stone Henge, right? 😛 > > BTW, the ancient aliens guy with the wild hair DOES think that the Romans and Greeks had alien assistance too. Oh, and Greeks are ‘brown’ as well…so are Italians for that matter. The ancient aliens guy with the wild hair _is_ Greek. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/95 "2015-01-11T21:21:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The ancient aliens guy with the wild hair _is_ Greek. Yep (well, I think he was born in Sweden or Switzerland, but he’s of Greek descent)…and he thinks aliens helped build many Greek and Roman structures (as well as a host of other goofy things like there was a nuclear war that wiped out the dinosaurs). I don’t think that his being a Greek gives him any special insight on whether aliens helped the Greeks or Romans in ancient times, though. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/96 "2015-01-11T21:31:42Z")
[QUOTE=Latro] The Egyptians, Persians and other mesopotamian builders must have had earlier forms of maths. It’s just the Greek version that is the latest and that has survived in writing. [/QUOTE] I don’t think them being able to build the structures they built is any indications they had the math to back it up. They certainly knew how to use various plumb lines, and they used a marked wheel to measure distances, but most of their structures were trail and error based, not mathematically calculated first and then erected, at least as far as I know. As indicated you have things like the bent pyramid where they started off with one angle, found out the structure would collapse when cracking started, and changed to a different angle half way up to compensate. Your mastabas example is a good one…the early pyramids were basically just stacks of these structures to form a rough pyramid shape, which was refined to eventually purpose built pyramids (with many, many failures or partial successes). A lot of these things were re-purposed at one point or another (like the ‘lost pyramid’), stripped of materials and only the foundations left, often forgotten and buried (and only visible from ground penetrating radar images today). ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/97 "2015-01-11T22:37:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I don’t think them being able to build the structures they built is any indications they had the math to back it up. They certainly knew how to use various plumb lines, and they used a marked wheel to measure distances, but most of their structures were trail and error based, not mathematically calculated first and then erected, at least as far as I know. They had some elegant “work-arounds” to make up for their primitive math. For instance, they knew how to tie knots in a pattern or 3 - 4 - 5, to make a right-angle triangle, and they knew how to dig little canals of water to establish a level baseline. ETA: I can’t remember if they used 22/7 or 355/113 as their estimate for pi. They may not have had the ability to measure heights by taking the cosine of an angle, but they had a lot of other clever ways of figuring things. > [@](#): > > As indicated you have things like the bent pyramid where they started off with one angle, found out the structure would collapse when cracking started, and changed to a different angle half way up to compensate. Your mastabas example is a good one…the early pyramids were basically just stacks of these structures to form a rough pyramid shape, which was refined to eventually purpose built pyramids (with many, many failures or partial successes). A lot of these things were re-purposed at one point or another (like the ‘lost pyramid’), stripped of materials and only the foundations left, often forgotten and buried (and only visible from ground penetrating radar images today). Exactly so. They made a LOT of progress via trial-and-error. The Bent Pyramid is a lovely example of a major screw-up being turned into a success by pure compromise. If all we had to look at was the Great Pyramid, we’d be a lot more ignorant of their processes, but as we have the full history of the development of their architectural arts over the centuries, we don’t really have to guess. We can see how they did it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/98 "2015-01-11T23:07:30Z")
**dopestraight** made 4 posts and never came back. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/99 "2015-01-11T23:32:15Z")
Four posts and four lintels, and he’s on his way to ancient architecture! ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/100 "2015-01-12T01:40:07Z")
> [@dopestraight](#): > > For what purpose were they built? Who built the ancient monolithic structures? Doesn’t it bother any of you that today WE CANNOT but long BEFORE US THEY COULD? Why couldn’t “We” do it now? Spec it out and let out bids. I’m sure you’d get them built. They are starting a $50 Billion canal across 300 kilometers of Nicaragua even as we type. They expect to finish it in 5 years. I have my bid in to supply the portable toilets. It would be the by far largest project I’ve ever been on, pyramids would be less than that. And I stand ready to bid on the sanitation contract there too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=6)