# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1262 "2015-05-06T01:13:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What kind of reception have your theories received? Generally poor. Egyptologists just get mad and refuse to discuss it at all. Skeptics and “science types” are the worst except for poets. The best reception is where I’m well known or among friends who know I’m not prone to flights of fancy. Computer programmers, linguists, and chemists take it relatively well. Remarkaby I’ve never had any feedback from religious people except a very very few who find it either profound or blasphemous. Skeptics are the worst and the more they “know” about Egyptology the worse they are. I always say nobody takes it seriously but there are a lot of people who are just waiting for guidance from Egyptologists who refuse to comment at all. I believe a lot of people think it’s possible I’m right but lack the knowledge to form an educated opinion. This is the crux of the problem because unless I’m right there’s almost no evidence at all. If I am right people will forever wonder how all the evidence could be missed. The idea sounds so fantastic that people don’t want to get on board. I believe Egyptologists are in danger of becoming marginalized because they won’t consider it and at least much of it will prove to be true. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1263 "2015-05-06T01:19:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What kind of reception have your theories received? I should add that this theory is really a product of message boards and this is related to the poor reception. It was not only discovered by google but it was formed and massaged by message boards. Early incarnations of the theory had severe flaws that were corrected due to the input of Egyptologists and others. It was Egytologists who had the most influence. About the time I proposed “geysers” in ~'08 was when they got scarce. I’ve not only had criticism from outside sources but also have had a lot of help in discovering consistencies. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1264 "2015-05-06T01:41:40Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Believe it or not this place is about as open minded as they come!!! > > I’ll probably hang around. > > I’ve tried just about every kind of forum there is trying to attack this from various angles. I’m interested in what you have in mind and **I’ll go anywhere except a “skeptics” forum.** Bolding mine. Umm, **claddy** , old boy? You might want to take a look at some of the other threads in this forum. Ones on, say, homeopathy, or antivaxxers. Or religion. The SDMB is, um, not very receptive to woo. As you might have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1265 "2015-05-06T01:42:31Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > You haven’t beenb specific as to what you want. I can’t be defending concepts like the sky is blue. What usually happens when someone wants something specific defended is that I post a source and then they simply deny that the claim is even relevant in the first place. I say something like we know the water collection device was built first because it’s underneath the pyramid and they answer that it’s irrelevant that it was built first. > > Reality is cheap too. It’s happening all around us and we are a part of it. If I say that the amount of work to lift a stone is the reciprocal of the efficiency times the weight time the height then this is simple fact. I can provide links to such things but frankly I believe it’s the reader’s responsibility to look this up because I can’t understand it for them and if they don’t understand it then a link won’t help. W = F x d and it’s a vector equation. In this case the direction is directly away from the earth and the force is gravity. Just because Egyptologists don’t recognize the importance of this equation it isn’t nullified in any way. The work needed to lift pyramid is not proportional to their volume as they pretend but to their volume and height. This is reality. > > It’s just a silly little uTube video showing how water at altitude can be used to lift stones. It means nothing because we all know that oif they had water at 81’ 3" it could have been used to lift stones. The question isn’t whether or not water could build the pyramid, the question is whether they used water to lift stones up one step at a time or another means to lift stones one step at a time. > > Ramps are debunked and stones moves straight up the side. For a start, why don’t you build or model the counterweight apparatus? If the physics and the materials (rope, etcc) work out (that is, it actually lifts stones, and speedily and reliably enough to have built a pyramid in the time they are thought to have been built in), then you have real, objective evidence that the Egyptians might have used your method. If it doesn’t work, then you’ll know you’re on the wrong track. Innovations and breakthroughs don’t come from idle speculation. Put the work in, if you’re actually taking this seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1266 "2015-05-06T01:44:58Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > 2078a. To say: These four grandsons stand up for N., > 2078b. ’Ims.ti, Ḥȝpi, Dwȝ-mu.t.f, Ḳbḥ-śn.w.f, > 2078c. the offspring of Horus of Letopolis. > 2079a. They bind a ladder for N.; > 2079b. they make firm a ladder for N. > 2079c. They cause N. to ascend to Khepri. Thank you for supporting the case for ramps. These lines clearly describe four ramps allowing the pyramid to ascend. Perhaps your confusion stems from the fact that they had no word specifically for “ramp” and instead used a term that can be mistranslated as “ladder.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1267 "2015-05-06T01:50:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > For a start, why don’t you build or model the counterweight apparatus? Because models are irrelevant, as is anything that might contradict his whole cloth speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1268 "2015-05-06T02:06:02Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because models are irrelevant, as is anything that might contradict his whole cloth speculation. Clearly, but discussing the value of models, and the success and influence of other people’s practical experiments (Tim Jenison, Thor Heyerdahl, etc) has a slightly above zero chance of changing his mind. Unless it’s just a matter of laziness. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1269 "2015-05-06T02:14:46Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Generally poor. > > Egyptologists just get mad and refuse to discuss it at all. Skeptics and “science types” are the worst except for poets. Those pesky “science types”, with their insistence on evidence and modeling and refusal to accept unsupported assertions! > [@](#): > > The best reception is where I’m well known or among friends who know I’m not prone to flights of fancy. \*\*Computer programmers, linguists, and chemists take it relatively well. \*\* That is, people who don’t necessarily have any expertise in archaeology or engineering. And I’m going to call bullshit on linguists supporting your “metaphysical” language or your “I-can’t-read-Egyptian-but-I-can-understand-it” nonsense . You’ll have to provide a cite for me to accept _that_ statement. > [@cladking](#): > > I should add that this theory is really a product of message boards and this is related to the poor reception. It was not only discovered by google but it was formed and massaged by message boards. So, it’s not really a theory then - just a idea that you’ve been tossing around and refining in your head for a decade. You’ve argued it on message boards, but have done no real research to turn it in to an actual testable hypothesis. Got it. See, here’s the thing, **cladking** - you might not have the time, or resources, or ability to do any serious work on your idea. Not everybody does - ideas are great, but a brother’s gotta pay the rent, right? We can’t all be Indiana Jones. But without that serious research, your wild idea is just that - a wild idea. And the Internet is full of those. Arguing on the internet doesn’t make you a scientist - it just makes you [The Food Babe.](http://gawker.com/the-food-babe-blogger-is-full-of-shit-1694902226) All bolding and editing mine. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1270 "2015-05-06T02:28:23Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > . . . it just makes you [The Food Babe.](http://gawker.com/the-food-babe-blogger-is-full-of-shit-1694902226) . . . Once more, this thread pays for itself in this link alone. I’d never heard of The Food Babe, and am damn glad I learned from a debunking site rather than from a “true believer” of any sort. Thank you for the prophylactic protection against that…dolt. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1271 "2015-05-06T02:54:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Once more, this thread pays for itself in this link alone. I’d never heard of The Food Babe, and am damn glad I learned from a debunking site rather than from a “true believer” of any sort. Thank you for the prophylactic protection against that…dolt. “Jes’ doin’ my job, ma’am, jes’ doin’ my job.” ::spins six-shooter back into holster, tips hat, moseys away…:: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1272 "2015-05-06T03:19:28Z")
She kinda hot, though. :rolleyes of pure innocence: ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1273 "2015-05-06T03:43:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > She kinda hot, though. :rolleyes of pure innocence: Why, thank you. But I’m a … oh, wait, you were talking about the Food Babe, weren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1274 "2015-05-06T04:14:31Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Not everybody does - ideas are great, but a brother’s gotta pay the rent, right? Seriously. It’s a cliche, but ideas are a dime a dozen. Even Edison weighed in on this, right? 99% perspiration and all that. Gotta put in the actual work before anybody takes you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1275 "2015-05-06T04:27:54Z")
“Hey, I’ve got a great idea for a novel. You write it, and we’ll split the profits!” ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1276 "2015-05-06T14:02:57Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > For a start, why don’t you build or model the counterweight apparatus? If the physics and the materials (rope, etcc) work out (that is, it actually lifts stones, and speedily and reliably enough to have built a pyramid in the time they are thought to have been built in), then you have real, objective evidence that the Egyptians might have used your method. If it doesn’t work, then you’ll know you’re on the wrong track. > > Innovations and breakthroughs don’t come from idle speculation. Put the work in, if you’re actually taking this seriously. What exactly is the model for? Am I supposed to be trying to prove the heavier pan of a balance scale will still fall even if there’s stone on it and water in the other? Everything I’m proposing is well within known theory. Modeling is superfluous. If anyone at all needs to make a model it is Egyptology. They are claiming there is some ramp configuration that would allow 6 1/2 million tons of stones to flow into a pyramid without trhe haulers tripping over one another. Such a ramp system has NEVER been described and when anyone tries it is blown out of the water as an impossibility. They can’t be built or they simply can’t work. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg/170px-Escher_Waterfall.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg/170px-Escher_Waterfall.jpg) It’s ironic that ramps have no evidence for support but no one is concerned they haven’t been modeled even by computer but pulling stones up one step at a time which is evidenced somehow needs modeling. I suppose if I were proposing aliens did it then you’d want me to build a levitation gun or a faster than light propulsion. Ramps are debunked (post #152 still stands and the word still isn’t attested). Perhaps Egyptologists should try modeling something that can be built and is evidenced. Even as ridiculous as ramps are, modeling is irrelevant since given enough ramping material and enough manpower then even ramps could work. The only real problem is they lacked an economy massive enough to project this kind of power on ramps. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1277 "2015-05-06T14:39:23Z")
The geyser is keeping this rubber duck from sinking. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1278 "2015-05-06T14:48:38Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > What exactly is the model for? Am I supposed to be trying to prove the heavier pan of a balance scale will still fall even if there’s stone on it and water in the other? Everything I’m proposing is well within known theory. Modeling is superfluous. Architecture, that is the most related subject to this, is a science too. [https://architecture.uoregon.edu/programs/m.s.arch](https://architecture.uoregon.edu/programs/m.s.arch) And among the tools that are essential to it: > [@](#): > > ``` > Design modeling, simulations, and communications > > ``` So, as noted, you are only demonstrating a gross ignorance of the tools that are used. > [@cladking](#): > > If anyone at all needs to make a model it is Egyptology. They are claiming there is some ramp configuration that would allow 6 1/2 million tons of stones to flow into a pyramid without trhe haulers tripping over one another. Such a ramp system has NEVER been described and when anyone tries it is blown out of the water as an impossibility. They can’t be built or they simply can’t work. > > [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher\_Waterfall.jpg/170px-Escher\_Waterfall.jpg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg/170px-Escher_Waterfall.jpg) Of course it is essential (for you) to ignore that the physical modelers that worked with the ideas of Houidin also showed how the haulers did not trip over one another. You seem to have the impression that modelers can not simulate how humans can interact with materials and where they can be while pulling material up a ramp. Yet another item where you show only gross ignorance. > [@cladking](#): > > It’s ironic that ramps have no evidence for support but no one is concerned they haven’t been modeled even by computer but pulling stones up one step at a time which is evidenced somehow needs modeling. I suppose if I were proposing aliens did it then you’d want me to build a levitation gun or a faster than light propulsion. > > Ramps are debunked (post #152 still stands and the word still isn’t attested). Perhaps Egyptologists should try modeling something that can be built and is evidenced. Even as ridiculous as ramps are, modeling is irrelevant since given enough ramping material and enough manpower then even ramps could work. The only real problem is they lacked an economy massive enough to project this kind of power on ramps. Once again, this shows another gross ignorance about when something is debunked, it also does require that more than one researcher to agree with you, so far the number of active researchers that agrees with no ramps used in making pyramids ever is zero. (And we are talking smaller ones, not the straw man one big one that you think Egyptologists propose.) And even modern Egyptians that work with tourists know were to look for evidence that ramps were used in the constructions of pyramids: [http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidlifts.htm#ixzz3ZHAJTJ00](http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pyramidlifts.htm#ixzz3ZHAJTJ00) > [@](#): > > Ramps are generally considered to have been the main lifting devices for heavy material. While lifting devices such as pseudo pulleys and wooden levers were likely known in ancient Egypt, it has not been demonstrated that these tools could lift the massive stones of the great pyramids, which sometimes weighed as much as fifty or more tons. Yet there are many different theories regarding what shape ramps may have taken, and there sometimes appears to be flaws in most any such design. > > However, today we know that ramps were definitely used at least in some pyramids, because we have discovered a number of ramps at various pyramid sites, along with some documentation that would suggest the use of ramps. > > Remains of ramps have been discovered at Meidum, Dahshur, Abu Ghurab and Abusir, thus supporting the claims of Siculus. Notable also are the Sinki pyramid at South Abydos and the Sekhemkhet pyramid where ramp remains, and even complete ramps have been discovered. Other ramp remains may have also been discovered at Giza, where excavators from the Cairo University excavated two parallel walls that may have formed the retaining framework of a ramp. > > The ramp theory is further supported, at least circumstantially, by documents featuring mathematical problems connected with construction projects, and ramps in particular. In general, it is assumed that ramps used to lift the giant blocks had an outside wall and framework made of mudbricks, with an interior filled with sand and other rubble, and perhaps covered with clay. However, beyond these basic specifications, Egyptologists differ considerably on their views of what such a ramp might have looked like. Complicating this matter further, it also seems that at different pyramid locations, different types of ramps might have been used. For example, in some places more room was available to construct such ramps than at other locations, so it is likely that the general design of these ramp systems may have varied simply due to necessity. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1279 "2015-05-06T14:52:52Z")
[QUOTE=cladking] It’s ironic that ramps have no evidence for support but no one is concerned they haven’t been modeled even by computer but pulling stones up one step at a time which is evidenced somehow needs modeling. I suppose if I were proposing aliens did it then you’d want me to build a levitation gun or a faster than light propulsion. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s ironic…well, except that ramps HAVE been modeled and people have actually built and tested their theories of how they could work. With real ramps and real blocks of stone and reap people hauling on real ropes. Except for that, it’s pretty ironic, to be sure. And it’s definitely ironic that you continue to ignore the fact that there is archeological evidence of ramps on the Giza plateau and keep repeating the claim that there is no evidence…of course, you do this by both ignoring that evidence and by pointing out there is no DIRECT evidence of the ramps being used to build the pyramids. > [@](#): > > Ramps are debunked (post #152 still stands and the word still isn’t attested). Still don’t grasp the whole ‘people can scroll up’ feature of a discussion like this, ehe? 😛 Yes, by now we are all aware that ramps have been debunked in your own mind…except, not really, since you admit to using ramps to fend off blocks of stone in your Rube machine. Oh, and the ramps undoubtedly used in constructing the base parts that you don’t care about (because obviously you couldn’t use your wonderful mouse trap machine until you have a pyramid to build it on). > [@](#): > > Perhaps Egyptologists should try modeling something that can be built and is evidenced. Like they have done, right? 😛 Gods, you are hilarious. You ARE the Food Babe…you rely on the ignorance of your audience to just buy into your bullshit. Ramps HAVE been modeled…multiple times. And some ramp designs have been tossed out because, once modeled they didn’t freaking work. In addition, various ways to move the stones have been tried…not thought about, but actually tried out in full scale with real people and real blocks (and stinky feet that really smell bad). I’ve SEEN it with my own real eyes. I’ve pulled on a rope to do testing (admittedly, not for building a pyramid but for moving a block such as those at Stone Henge…my feet DID stink though). You have nothing, on the other hand. All you have is the ignorance of your audience and the ability to spout a seemingly endless stream of bullshit. You build strawmen and then tear them down. You handwave enough to float a block to the top of a pyramid all by yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1280 "2015-05-06T16:35:45Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > What exactly is the model for? Am I supposed to be trying to prove the heavier pan of a balance scale will still fall even if there’s stone on it and water in the other? Everything I’m proposing is well within known theory. Modeling is superfluous. To demonstrate whether the machine you’re proposing would work, if it could be built with the materials and knowledge available at the time, and how quickly it could be used to build a pyramid, with what level of manpower, and so forth. Y’know, actual tangible reality. That’s how amateurs have advanced science before. See, the specifics matter. For example: gunpowder explosions result in expanding gasses, as we all know. Therefore, my theory that the Ancient Egyptians built high-powered rifles out of reeds needs no testing; I can just point to the physics of expanding gasses and be done with it. Agreed? > [@cladking](#): > > If anyone at all needs to make a model it is Egyptology. They are claiming there is some ramp configuration that would allow 6 1/2 million tons of stones to flow into a pyramid without trhe haulers tripping over one another. Such a ramp system has NEVER been described and when anyone tries it is blown out of the water as an impossibility. They can’t be built or they simply can’t work. > > [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher\_Waterfall.jpg/170px-Escher\_Waterfall.jpg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg/170px-Escher_Waterfall.jpg) > > It’s ironic that ramps have no evidence for support but no one is concerned they haven’t been modeled even by computer but pulling stones up one step at a time which is evidenced somehow needs modeling. I suppose if I were proposing aliens did it then you’d want me to build a levitation gun or a faster than light propulsion. > > Ramps are debunked (post #152 still stands and the word still isn’t attested). Perhaps Egyptologists should try modeling something that can be built and is evidenced. Even as ridiculous as ramps are, modeling is irrelevant since given enough ramping material and enough manpower then even ramps could work. The only real problem is they lacked an economy massive enough to project this kind of power on ramps. First off, whether other theories are correct has no bearing on whether _your_ theory is correct. Egyptologists could be wrong about everything, and that wouldn’t make you right. So, the constant references back to mainstream theories does nothing for your theory, except highlight how little substance there is to it. Second, your policy of deliberate ignorance is again coming back to bite you, as modeling of ramp-based construction have been done. [Here is one example](http://iop.uva.nl/news-events/content/2014/00/prl-egyptian-pyramids.html). Note that, in order to test the wet-sand theory, the team _actually tested the wet-sand theory_, as opposed to insisting they were right and calling it a day. So, whether it is laziness, lack of confidence, or being so far removed from scientific thought that you can’t conceive of concepts like falsifiability, your refusal to test or model anything is quite damning to your theories. Clearly, you cannot be persuaded from your views through discussion; pretend that the rest of us are the same way. You must move beyond hot air and into testable reality. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1281 "2015-05-06T18:44:06Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Clearly, you cannot be persuaded from your views through discussion; pretend that the rest of us are the same way. You must move beyond hot air and into testable reality. What we have here is a failure to communicate. I’m not proposing some radical new science like levitation ray or warp drive. I’n not suggesting the ancients had anything we’d call high tech. If I were then, yes, I’d have to have some very convincing math or build a model that could at least lift a molehill. I’m merely claiming to have **Re** discovered how the great pyramids werew built primitive technology. I am not required to prove a balance scale works any more than Egyptologists are required to show that ramps could have worked. Of course I can be dissuaded but not with semantics, evasions, irrelevancies, and non factual statements. I need facts and logic to turn my course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=65)