# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1282 "2015-05-06T18:55:27Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Of course I can be dissuaded but not with semantics, evasions, irrelevancies, and non factual statements. I need facts and logic to turn my course. I don’t see why-they played no part in you getting on that course in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1283 "2015-05-06T18:55:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ramps are generally considered to have been the main lifting devices for heavy material. While lifting devices such as pseudo pulleys and wooden levers were likely known in ancient Egypt, it has not been demonstrated that these tools could lift the massive stones of the great pyramids, which sometimes weighed as much as fifty or more tons. Yet there are many different theories regarding what shape ramps may have taken, and there sometimes appears to be flaws in most any such design. > > However, today we know that ramps were definitely used at least in some pyramids, because we have discovered a number of ramps at various pyramid sites, along with some documentation that would suggest the use of ramps. > > Remains of ramps have been discovered at Meidum, Dahshur, Abu Ghurab and Abusir, thus supporting the claims of Siculus. Notable also are the Sinki pyramid at South Abydos and the Sekhemkhet pyramid where ramp remains, and even complete ramps have been discovered. Other ramp remains may have also been discovered at Giza, where excavators from the Cairo University excavated two parallel walls that may have formed the retaining framework of a ramp. > > The ramp theory is further supported, at least circumstantially, by documents featuring mathematical problems connected with construction projects, and ramps in particular. In general, it is assumed that ramps used to lift the giant blocks had an outside wall and framework made of mudbricks, with an interior filled with sand and other rubble, and perhaps covered with clay. However, beyond these basic specifications, Egyptologists differ considerably on their views of what such a ramp might have looked like. Complicating this matter further, it also seems that at different pyramid locations, different types of ramps might have been used. For example, in some places more room was available to construct such ramps than at other locations, so it is likely that the general design of these ramp systems may have varied simply due to necessity. Ramps remain debunked. There is no evidence any stone was ever lifted on any great pyramid with ramps, pseudo-pulleys, or levers. How anyone ever came up with the absurd notion that pulleys were invented like a pie, a slice at a time, I’ll never understand. They can cite evidence and proof that ramps were used at the tiny little things euphimistically called pyramids until they’re blue in the face but there’s still no evidence of any kind ramps were used and they remain debunked. > [@](#): > > Egyptologists differ considerably on their views of what such a ramp might have looked like. They not only differ but each is amorphous and changes shape as you point out its fatal flaws. You want someone to model something have them model a ramp so I can point out each of itsd fatal flaws. They don’t like to specify how these work because then they’re backed into a corner of their own design. There simply were never any ramps and no amount of speculation will turn up evidence for them. They are highly illogical and the evidence says stones were pulled straight up the side one step at a time. Why is it so unbelievable that maybe the reason they can’t find evidence for ramps is that they didn’t use ramps? Maybe the word “ramp” isn’t even attested because they used “maat”. This word is attested hundreds of times and they actually said osiris tows the earth by means of balance (maat). I’m just flabbergasted this can’t even be considered a possibility of the reality even in light of the debunkment of ramps. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1284 "2015-05-06T19:05:03Z")
Ramps, huh? Cool. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1285 "2015-05-06T19:06:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t see why-they played no part in you getting on that course in the first place. Visceral knowledge pointed me on the course but facts and logic steer the theory. What you should consider is what gave rise to the concept that they mustta used ramps. In the day that this nonsense first arose there wasn’t even much evidence for ramps on little structures. Read the work of Vyse and Petrie and some of the other 19th century Egyptologists and it quickly becomes apparent how this belief arose. Their beliefs are frightening in this day and age. This isn’t woo or new age nonsense; it’s a simple recognition that all men can exceed their circumstances and given the proper conditions excell. This is the reality. People can sink to the lowest common denominator or they can rise to the greatest challenge. More than ever before we need to rise to the challenges and this will require working together and better communication. These things are true no matter how the pyramids were built. And they are more true today than ever before in the history (and prehistory) of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1286 "2015-05-06T19:10:42Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There simply were never any ramps and no amount of speculation will turn up evidence for them. But the geysers are _right there in front of your eyes_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1287 "2015-05-06T19:11:02Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Ramps remain debunked. Only you claim that, so far we know that besides not being right on the ramps, you are also wrong on what debunked means, double trouble. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1288 "2015-05-06T19:14:20Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > This isn’t woo or new age nonsense; It is, as no good evidence has been produced by you, and your last replies show that you are not even capable of accepting that you were wrong about insisting that modeling is not useful at all. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1289 "2015-05-06T19:19:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But the geysers are _right there in front of your eyes_. 😉 hey - he rediscovered it - clearly they are/were or will be at some point, just not now. I’m more impressed now that he has debunked pullies and levers - which his own “theory” would have required (in some fashion) at some point. but thats just the way he rolls. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1290 "2015-05-06T19:19:09Z")
I’ve just completed a crash course in metaphysics and natural language. My interpretations are: 2078a. We used ramps 2078b. We didn’t use geysers 2078c. We don’t have a word for geyser 2079a. Anyone who says we didn’t use ramps is wrong 2079b. Anyone who says we used geysers is wrong 2079c. Pull my finger Since these interpretations come from visceral knowledge they must be accepted as fact, and clearly they are supported by facts and logic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1291 "2015-05-06T19:36:44Z")
… and the theory means that the way to build a pyramid is to already _have_ a pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1292 "2015-05-06T19:41:44Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > What we have here is a failure to communicate. > > I’m not proposing some radical new science like levitation ray or warp drive. I’n not suggesting the ancients had anything we’d call high tech. If I were then, yes, I’d have to have some very convincing math or build a model that could at least lift a molehill. I’m merely claiming to have **Re** discovered how the great pyramids werew built primitive technology. And yet you have zero interest in demonstrating this claim to be true, if it requires anything more strenuous than posting assertions on a message board. If you don’t care any more than that, why should any of us? I mean, you have literally been outworked by a resident 9/11 truther poster, who made models with washers and toothpicks. Really, do you think the scientific method only applies to radical new science? Glance at [some science journals](http://www.sciencemag.org/journals), note the dearth of levitation rays and warp drives. Claims transform into facts via repeatable experiments, even claims that are minor revisions of existing ideas, or a novel combination of existing ones. > [@cladking](#): > > I am not required to prove a balance scale works any more than Egyptologists are required to show that ramps could have worked. Well, they’re doing it anyway (see previous post for one example)…if they aren’t required to, I guess they’re just overachievers. > [@cladking](#): > > Of course I can be dissuaded but not with semantics, evasions, irrelevancies, and non factual statements. I need facts and logic to turn my course. Again, I think you believe this, but I sure don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1293 "2015-05-06T20:08:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > . . . 2079b. Anyone who says we used geysers is wrong > 2079c. Pull my finger . . . Fingers were debunked in post 297. I rely upon Ulnar knowledge. (Forewarned is forearmed.) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1294 "2015-05-06T20:13:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Fingers were debunked in post 297. > > I rely upon Ulnar knowledge. (Forewarned is forearmed.) damn, I’m only twoarmed. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1295 "2015-05-06T20:18:02Z")
> [@simster](#): > > damn, I’m only twoarmed. That’s fine, since much of the king of clad’s knowledge seems to come from aft… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1296 "2015-05-06T20:42:07Z")
> [@XT](#): > > That’s fine, since much of the king of clad’s knowledge seems to come from aft… I think the word you’re looking for is ankh … ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1297 "2015-05-06T21:14:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Fingers were debunked in post 297. > > I rely upon Ulnar knowledge. (Forewarned is forearmed.) We may have the thread winner, here. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1298 "2015-05-06T22:14:26Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > We may have the thread winner, here. Definitely among the best… 1545d. I have cut off his two hands; I have cut off his two feet. 1546a. His upper fore-legs including (lit. “being to”) his lower forelegs belong t[o Atum], father of the gods; It’s a shame these guys never said what they meant and are so damned inscrutable. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1299 "2015-05-06T22:22:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Second, your policy of deliberate ignorance is again coming back to bite you, as modeling of ramp-based construction have been done. [Here is one example](http://iop.uva.nl/news-events/content/2014/00/prl-egyptian-pyramids.html). Note that, in order to test the wet-sand theory, the team _actually tested the wet-sand theory_, as opposed to insisting they were right and calling it a day. Do you actually believe that huge sleds can be dragged over wet sand? Do you have any idea how complicated the physics is to model this question? Do you realize the “sand” they used is dissimilar to the sand at Giza? This was nothing but a desparation play to save the “pyramid builder’s village becomes a port with no roads” ploy. Sometimes I suspect it might be a joke but it certainly has nothing to do with science and it has nothing to do with pyramid building. Even if you could drag sleds over wet sand where would they get the water? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1300 "2015-05-06T22:25:12Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Even if you could drag sleds over wet sand where would they get the water? Geysers? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1301 "2015-05-06T22:30:46Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Do you actually believe that huge sleds can be dragged over wet sand? Do you have any idea how complicated the physics is to model this question? Do you realize the “sand” they used is dissimilar to the sand at Giza? > > This was nothing but a desparation play to save the “pyramid builder’s village becomes a port with no roads” ploy. Sometimes I suspect it might be a joke but it certainly has nothing to do with science and it has nothing to do with pyramid building. > > Even if you could drag sleds over wet sand where would they get the water? You mean like [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/05/02/the-surprisingly-simple-way-egyptians-moved-massive-pyramid-stones-without-modern-technology/)? Where they actually modeled it? Like that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=66)