# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1602 "2015-05-12T17:57:36Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Yes. More importantly perhaps is that even though they weren’t very advanced, especially in chemistry and physics, is that they used all their knowledge at once so they were more effective than modern people. We think in language and their language was highly effective for thought. > > Theres nothing wrong with using ramps when it’s the most efficient way. It is sheer madness to endanger the lives of all Egyptians wasting resources to build a tomb for a dead king who lives forever using any means at all. Have you ever had the experience of “having a word at the end of your tongue”? You know, when you can’t quite call to mind the word you’re looking for? That should suggest to you that we don’t “think in language”. Neither did they. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1603 "2015-05-12T18:12:17Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Yes. More importantly perhaps is that even though they weren’t very advanced, especially in chemistry and physics, is that they used all their knowledge at once so they were more effective than modern people. We think in language and their language was highly effective for thought. > > Theres nothing wrong with using ramps when it’s the most efficient way. It is sheer madness to endanger the lives of all Egyptians wasting resources to build a tomb for a dead king who lives forever using any means at all. So - if the king lives forever - where is he? If the pyramids were not a tomb, what were they for? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1604 "2015-05-12T18:43:05Z")
I have to wonder how many stonemasons and other workers died building St. Paul’s or Chartres Cathedral. How is it that medieval European religions, and the actions they have resulted in, are not “sheer madness” while ancient Egyptian religions _are_? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1605 "2015-05-12T18:50:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You haven’t shown this, especially with the CO2 stuff. To be fair, he hasn’t shown that the ropes are even possible, so he’s got plenty of other problems in mix. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1606 "2015-05-12T19:00:08Z")
[QUOTE=cladking] I am not equipped to teach people physics. Since my knowledge is so shallow it’s a wonder I usually get it right. No one would want to learn it from me anyway since it has to be translated to use it in class. Tell me, why is there an encrustation of salt all aound and under the Dead Sea. This salt water body has been drying up for many decades. So why isn’t the salt dissolved? [/QUOTE] You don’t even seem to know the difference between physics and chemistry, so I’m not sure how to help you. That you think you usually get it right says something. As to your question, one word…evaporation. Look it up. > [@](#): > > I’m supposed to prove by citation that there shouldn’t be water on hills in deserts!!! Yes, you are. You made the claim, and you refuse to back it up with more than assertion. Hell, you don’t even give details…just assert that there IS water on some hill somewhere in a desert that shouldn’t be there. Let me put this simply…l don’t believe you. I don’t believe there IS such a hill and that there is some mystery with water. Your assertions are meaningless, and the fact that you won’t back any of them up except with more bullshit and prevarication is really telling. > [@](#): > > I’d consult Websters. I actually pposted an Egyptologist who said there was a water worn canal leading from the pyramid base. Now we want me to read everything every Egyptologist ever said to see if one said there was water on the hill drained by this canal in the desert drained by that same canal!!! > > Sorry, but this is illogical. The answers you need are too basic and fundamental for me to address. This is the same problem with Egyptologists who don’t understand that the work to build a pyramid increases geometrically with its height. I can’t make them understand this. I can cite the equations but they are none the wiser for it. So, you have nothing. We’ll take this as yet another instance where you are retracting your assertion then, since you choose not to do a god damned thing to back it up. See? This is easy! Every time you refuse to back up an assertion with any sort of cite or link or SOMETHING we’ll just consider that as another you have retracted and move on. So, moving on… > [@](#): > > 29.980179, 31.134289 > > I don’t know if this is right. I can only provide simple directions. Plugging this into Google Earth I get approximately the mid-point of the northern edge of the pyramid of Khufu. Zooming in I see…well, nothing really. Can I presume that your geyser is under the pyramid then? So…is that the best you have? Some coordinates that don’t show anything? No pictures, no cites, nothing but some coordinates and your assertion that there is a geyser under there, somewhere? I’m tempted to dismiss this one as yet another thing you are going to be retracting by fiat, but wth…you did give me coordinates and they are actually on the Giza plateau (not that this is anything to difficult to get…which is curious why you couldn’t simply do this before). > [@](#): > > I do not believe they needed and piping technology in the operation of the geyser. They needed pipes to drill the well but not necessarily to get the water to such heights. They did need the djed which is in essence a short pipe. This was a sycamore log wrapped in rope. I believe it was probably attached to a short piece of copper pipe pounded into the top of the well which also accomodated a pressure relief mechanism of some sort to protect the djed and upper eye in case of unusually high pressures. > > It is improbable their pipe could withstand such pressure so some parts of my theory may require a little reworking. But this won’t affect the core technology they needed to lift the stones. Wait…are you claiming that the water shot 80+ FEET into the air to fall into your ‘boat’ and fill it?? > [@](#): > > It was siderite that the Egyptians mistook for red ochre. I don’t understand the question. Well, that’s good, because I don’t understand your answer or how it answers the question. How did the siderite dissolved into the mystery geysers water prevent that water from eroding the limestone that is throughout the site, let alone that used in the pyramids? Answer…it won’t. I don’t care what the Egyptians thought it was, it’s not going to solve the fundamental issue GIGO brought up to you several times in this thread concerning the acidic quality of water from a cold CO2 geyser…though, of course, having a geyser we could actually look at would be a help. Some coordinates under a pyramid don’t really do much for your argument unless one was inclined to simply believe your bald faced assertions uncritically. I’m guessing at this point that you are at least aware that no one is going to do that around here. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1607 "2015-05-12T19:03:22Z")
:dubious:Rethinking this I can’t see any reason why porous limestone caverns under a zillion ton stone monument would be a problem. Nothing at all.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1608 "2015-05-12T19:07:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > :dubious:Rethinking this I can’t see any reason why porous limestone caverns under a zillion ton stone monument would be a problem. Nothing at all.:smack: They’re fine unless you park Corvette’s in them - or build a dam across them - ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1609 "2015-05-12T19:12:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > :dubious:Rethinking this I can’t see any reason why porous limestone caverns under a zillion ton stone monument would be a problem. Nothing at all.:smack: See, this is why the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids in Nerf material (it helped when, rarely, one of the large Nerf blocks would fall on hapless workers below. They would all just laugh at the worker who had a Nerf block fall on him and go back to working. Except that one poor guy claddy mentioned earlier that had his feet crushed…poor bloke!). Later on, the geyser under Khufu’s pyramid with siderite dissolved in it changed those pyramids to limestone, which blocked the geyser from further spray-age. It’s what allowed the Egyptians to make super strong natural fiber ropes and direct water spraying into the air without pipes, merely using the Force to direct it all! It’s all so clear now… ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1610 "2015-05-12T19:35:34Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Plugging this into Google Earth I get approximately the mid-point of the northern edge of the pyramid of Khufu. Zooming in I see…well, nothing really. Can I presume that your geyser is under the pyramid then? No, he says it is 10 feet north of the pyramid, and 35 feet east of the middle of the wall. As for zooming in, it isn’t a very high resolution picture, and it’s also in shadow. Not seeing a hole there doesn’t prove there isn’t one. **CK** , how big is this hole supposed to be? Can you show us any pictures of it? Have you visited the site personally? Got your own pictures of the hole? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1611 "2015-05-12T19:40:48Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You don’t even seem to know the difference between physics and chemistry, so I’m not sure how to help you. There isn’t a difference. Chemistry IS physics. “All science is physics or stamp collecting.” -Ernest Rutherford ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1612 "2015-05-12T19:44:34Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] No, he says it is 10 feet north of the pyramid, and 35 feet east of the middle of the wall. [/QUOTE] Then he pulled those coordinates out of his ass, since plugging them in it’s inside (or under) the pyramid. > [@](#): > > As for zooming in, it isn’t a very high resolution picture, and it’s also in shadow. Not seeing a hole there doesn’t prove there isn’t one. No, it’s not. When I zoom in it’s inside the pyramid. There is one of those exploratory holes above the site he’s talking about (or that he gave the coordinates for), but I don’t see much. Now, you can click on pictures all around the pyramid, and I’ve done that…but you can’t zoom in on those. However, after checking maybe a dozen pictures all around the site I don’t see anything like what he’s describing…not even remotely like what he’s describing. My guess is his retort is that it isn’t there anymore, but I don’t see any indications of erosion channels or anything else that would indicate something like this was ever there. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1613 "2015-05-12T20:08:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Then he pulled those coordinates out of his ass, since plugging them in it’s inside (or under) the pyramid. Works fine on the [map view](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/29%C2%B058%2748.6%22N+31%C2%B008%2703.4%22E/@29.9801647,31.1342508,21z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0), rather than the satellite view. Blame the difference on Google, not CK … this time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1614 "2015-05-12T20:18:17Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Works fine on the [map view](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/29%C2%B058%2748.6%22N+31%C2%B008%2703.4%22E/@29.9801647,31.1342508,21z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0), rather than the satellite view. > > Blame the difference on Google, not CK … this time. Ok. But using Google Earth I can still see pictures from right where your map marker is showing the location as, and I’m not seeing anything. I don’t think I can link to this, but the picture I’m looking at that seems to show exactly where your marker is is ‘By IbrahemEslam’…and it shows just a bunch of broken paving stones up to the north face of the pyramid. A wider shot doesn’t seem to show anything either. I’ll await the return of CK to hand wave or explain all of this, but what I’d really like is some sort of picture or linked cite showing what HE thinks he’s talking about wrt the geyser. Is it still there? Is it long vanished without a trace except in the ancient writings? Was it a mystical geyser that only folks of sweet smelling feet could see? And did it literally shoot water 80+ feet into the air and into a ‘boat’ without using any sort of pipes or guides (and how did this work when they went above that mark?)? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1615 "2015-05-12T20:52:53Z")
Very busy now, but looking at \*\*XT \*\*, **Slow Moving Vehicle** , **simster** , \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*, **Tripolar** and many others, I have to say that you guys do get it, and getting ahead of me too. (The underground caves that are a \*\*common \*\*feature of cold water geysers were for later rounds, but good for others to notice already) I feel like director Nicholas Meyer when he was directing the classics like _The Wrath of Kahn._ “_Competents_! I’m surrounded by _competents_!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1616 "2015-05-12T21:56:19Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Ok. But using Google Earth I can still see pictures from right where your map marker is showing the location as, and I’m not seeing anything. I’m wondering if he means [this pit](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/29%C2%B058%2745.1%22N+31%C2%B008%2707.7%22E/@29.9792252,31.135437,78m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0), by the east face. Maybe he saw a diagram with the east face at the top, and thought it was north. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1617 "2015-05-13T01:59:48Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’m wondering if he means [this pit](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/29%C2%B058%2745.1%22N+31%C2%B008%2707.7%22E/@29.9792252,31.135437,78m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0), by the east face. > > Maybe he saw a diagram with the east face at the top, and thought it was north. Yeah, I see what you are saying there. If you go back to Google Earth there are a few pictures from that area (though it’s pretty sparse), and none of them look like much. I have a site plan of the Giza plateau and I don’t see anything marked there, so no idea if that’s modern (or perhaps not ‘modern’, but post dating the Old Kingdom…a lot of folks over the years dug up and into the pyramids, especially this one, looking for treasure and such) or from the time of the construction (or, I suppose, before the construction if it’s a natural geyser). I don’t THINK that’s what clad was talking about, though, since that’s actually at a lower elevation than north and west…and he was banging on about water on hills and such. However, maybe he’ll wander back in to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1618 "2015-05-13T02:22:11Z")
Just for laughs, I compiled the following report and invite contributions. This thread deserves to be added, I feel, upon its death. At this moment, 536 of cladking’s total 551 posts have been in this thread, and those 536 posts comprise 33% of the thread’s total of 1616 posts. Terms Used Eager Proponent (EP) : a user with an eccentric viewpoint unshakable by argument or evidence Thread Title (TT): thread to which the Eager Proponent posted mightily to advance their eccentric viewpoint Thread Dates (TDs): the start and end dates of thread Post Count (PC): the total number of posts to thread EP’s Reply Count (EPPC): the total number of posts to thread by Eager Proponent, with a percentage of their total contribution to thread Thread as Percentage of EP’s Board Activity (OS): EP’s Reply Count divided by EP’s total number of posts in all threads, 100% representing a perfect Obsession Score (OS) EP: Jack Dean Tyler TT: [Penile Lengthening Column](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=43031), [Penile Lengthening Column II](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=45381), [The circumcision thread: restored](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=45330) TDs: 20 Oct 2000 - 06 Nov 2000 (closed for technical reasons), 06 Nov 2000 (attempted continuation thread, closed), 06 Nov 2000 - 11 Dec 2000 PC: 401, 5, 349. Total: 757 EPPC: 81, 4, 63. Total: 148, for 19.6% OS: 148 / 269 total posts, for an OS of 55% EP: the\_great\_dalmuti TT: [A few question for Omnivores . . .](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=111345) TDs: 24 Apr 2002 - 06 Jun 2004 PC: 323 EPPC: 78, for 24.1% OS: 78 / 246 total posts, for an OS of 31.7% EP: castaway TT: [Genetic Freedom](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248043) TDs: 29 Mar 2004 - 23 Apr 2004 PC: 464 EPPC: 227, for 19.3% OS: 227 / 227 total posts, for an OS of 100% (perfect!) EP: Egmond Codfried TT: [Was Europe (1500-1789) a black civilisation?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=544874) TDs: 22 Dec 2009 - 07 Jan 2010 PC: 576 EPPC: 128, for 22.2% OS: 128 / 128 total posts, for an OS of 100% (perfect!) I am certain other posters know of equally memorable examples. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1619 "2015-05-13T03:07:30Z")
**Bryan** , that’s oddly…obsessive. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1620 "2015-05-13T03:12:32Z")
Well, I made an earlier reference to the “black royalty” thing, and “genetic freedom” is a longstanding personal favourite for its sheer determined nuttiness, and this thread looks like it’s going that route, so why not? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1621 "2015-05-13T03:38:09Z")
Not nearly as much fun. I mean, [the black royalty guy](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Egmond_Codfried) has his own Rational Wiki page. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=82)