# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1662 "2015-05-13T22:31:17Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > So it’s ridiculous to think of the pyramid-builders spending the time and resources to build giant memorials for dead kings, but it’s not ridiculous to think they spent the time and resources to build giant memorials to just how pimpin’ their civilization was? There’s an enormous difference between spending 50,000 man lives to build a tombstone for a dead king who lives forever and spending 1500 man lives to build a laundry, cannning plant, quarry, meat packing and monument to ingenuity. It’s not just the purpose that makes ramps stupid but the lives it chews up and spits out for nothing at all. Dead kings don’t live forever no matter how big their tombstones and there’s no reason 50,000 men need to live for nothing but to toil in the blistering heat. Ramps to lift 6 1/2 million tons to 140’ are an inane concept and it never happened except in the minds of modern people. The pyramid builders would simply shake their heads in wonder that anyone could believe they did it with ramps. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1663 "2015-05-13T22:32:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is building cathedrals ridiculous, **cladking**? The Bible isn’t a religious document, it’s completely misunderstood by the Christianologists. It’s actually a construction work order. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1664 "2015-05-13T22:39:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is building cathedrals ridiculous, **cladking**? Of course not. If the dead king really lived forever if you built him a large enough tombstone then that might not be ridiculous either. But he didn’t and no one thought he did. People believe in God and believe they need to make a house of worship. There’s nothing wrong with this. If they were to spend inordinate amounts of wealth as the Egyptians would have needed to or they wasted 10’s of thousands of lives to build it then this would be a problem. It would be ridiculous to waste many lives to do back breaking work to build anything for a religious or other belief. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1665 "2015-05-13T22:39:57Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Ramps to lift 6 1/2 million tons You keep saying that as if they did it in one afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1666 "2015-05-13T22:51:25Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There’s an enormous difference between spending 50,000 man lives to build a tombstone for a dead king who lives forever and spending 1500 man lives to build a laundry, cannning plant, quarry, meat packing and monument to ingenuity. Right, so spending 50,000 man lives just to show that one can pile up rocks makes so much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1667 "2015-05-14T00:11:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > … sets ancient Egyptians apart from all other humans in having no religious beliefs and a science for which there is no evidence. > > - ::: shrug :::\* Actually I believe there was a universal language spoken by all men that was the foundation of their science that allowed the invention of agriculture and cities after lifting humanity from the caves. Had they actually been superstitious the race would have become extinct. We survived the collapse of the ancient language because ancient technology could be passed down asa a craft. > [@](#): > > (I do wish, however that you would stop libeling whoever it is that you call “Egyptologists” with your rampant claims that they “say” this or “believe” that when you cannot point to a single “Egyptologist” who has actually said any of the things you ascribe to them. While I can feel some sympathy for you over your nonsense beliefs, your libel of the unnamed (and probably imaginary) “Egyptologists” moves you into the realm of Conspiracy Theorist which is a category of person who not only does not deserve compassion, but invites scorn.) I’m merely paraphrasing their beliefs. In my opinion it is very close to their beliefs. Ask them. There’s no conspiracy. This is just what they believe. They believe the ancients were stumbled footed bumpkins wherther they use these use these woirds ort not. It’s never been my contention that they’d ever use any word with negative connotations to describe these people. They simply wouldn’t nor would they say something negative about them. But they each and everyone believe the pyramids were tombs built by religious people who believed in magic whose religion and language remained essentially unchanged for millinea and these pyramids were dragged up ramps (or moved by other primitive means). This is a fact. It’s no conspiracy that they take these things as being axiomatic; it is their considered opinion. These opinions first arose many decades ago and persist to this day for many of the reasons I’ve already stated in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1668 "2015-05-14T00:13:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Right, so spending 50,000 man lives just to show that one can pile up rocks makes so much more sense. They didn’t use ramps so it didn’t take 50,000 lives. The gods built the pyramids so it required only about 8,000 lives. They got something out of the pyramids to offset this cost. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1669 "2015-05-14T00:19:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is what you believe, but asserting this is so is not actual evidence. Yes, of course not. But there’s still the simple fact that something named “min” existed and that the year of the arrival of min is recorded. There’s the fact that the culture suggests such a device existed and this is in the exact location that it was needed for the job and that it holds the proper volume of water for the task. There’s no proof this was an hydraulic leveling device or even that such existed. But the PT seems tosay there was one and I’ll wager if it’s correct that this is it. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1670 "2015-05-14T00:27:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yes, you are. You made the claim, and you refuse to back it up with more than assertion. Hell, you don’t even give details…just assert that there IS water on some hill somewhere in a desert that shouldn’t be there. Let me put this simply…l don’t believe you. I don’t believe there IS such a hill and that there is some mystery with water. Your assertions are meaningless, and the fact that you won’t back any of them up except with more bullshit and prevarication is really telling. The pyramid is on a hill. There was water at the base of the pyramid. Therefore there was water on a hill. > [@](#): > > So, you have nothing. We’ll take this as yet another instance where you are retracting your assertion then, since you choose not to do a god damned thing to back it up. See? This is easy! Every time you refuse to back up an assertion with any sort of cite or link or SOMETHING we’ll just consider that as another you have retracted and move on. So, moving on… Again, I have to refer you to a dictionary. A desert doesn’t have water and water wouldn’t normally be found on hills anyway. > [@](#): > > Wait…are you claiming that the water shot 80+ FEET into the air to fall into your ‘boat’ and fill it?? No. The water shot through the floor of a specifically designed structure that channeled it to the boat. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1671 "2015-05-14T00:29:21Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > To be fair, he hasn’t shown that the ropes are even possible, so he’s got plenty of other problems in mix. Actual ropes survive. Just like most of my evidence it’s actually there. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1672 "2015-05-14T00:31:59Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Have you ever had the experience of “having a word at the end of your tongue”? You know, when you can’t quite call to mind the word you’re looking for? That should suggest to you that we don’t “think in language”. Neither did they. What made you to even look for the word? Thought is a little more complicated than just the internal dialog but it is ordered around language. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1673 "2015-05-14T00:42:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not sure – metaphors can be part of “word meanings”, and your interpretations can be wrong on the word meanings (especially since we’re looking at translations of ancient texts). Obviously you’re correct but any metaphoric meaning would tend to distort the literal meaning and reduce the internal consistency. But this isn’t seen. Every word has a single meaning that is repeated with every usage which is why I say there was no metaphore and probably no symbolism. They simply said what they meant and meant it literally. > [@](#): > > You haven’t shown this, especially with the CO2 stuff. They used the words consistently with how CO2 behaves in nature. > [@](#): > > This is pretty meaningless. Someone could, through some extremely strange analysis, interpret those texts to be saying nothing more than “the Nile River is wet”. That might be internally consistent, but it doesn’t make it any more likely to be correct. There really aren’t many strange interpretations of any sort. The only one besides mine has a little overlap. I suppose it’s consistency is fairly good but it does not jive with the physical evidence and does not make accurate predictions. > [@](#): > > Also, as **Human Action** points out, I don’t think your solution is actually “internally consistent”. I mean that it makes the PT internally consistent. It becomes logical and sensible rather than being a book of incantation that includes instructions to the reader and the phrease “listen up men”. Originally Posted by cladking View Post Yes, this has become painfully clear to me. All I can do is reiterate that my solution doesn’t require word meanings to change like Egyptological interpretation. I’m not sure – metaphors can be part of “word meanings”, and your interpretations can be wrong on the word meanings (especially since we’re looking at translations of ancient texts). ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1674 "2015-05-14T00:53:12Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Your interpretation _isn’t_ consistent, though, as it fails to account for all the passages which speak of the gods in terms that are totally inapplicable to natural phenomenon, such as: > > 1197a. N. found the gods standing, > 1197b. wrapped in their garments, > 1197c. their white sandals on their feet. > 1197d. Then they threw their white sandals on the ground, > 1197e. they cast off their garments. > 1198a. “Our heart was not joyful until thou didst descend,” say they; > 1198b. “may that which was said of you be that which you now are.” I can quote this entire utterance and explain it but it will please or convince nobody. Let’s just say you took these lines out of context destroying the original meaning. The language in which they are written simply can’t be translated into modern languages. Meaning was in context. Perhaps this is more complex than I’m making it sound and I don’t know many of the rules of grammar. Most of this is written in the vulgar which is quite unusual. I’m one man working alone and I haven’t had time to do the huge amount of work that will be required to completely understand all this. I don’t even really know how similar this was to everyday speech. These were rituals and some of what I’m seeing might apply more to the “poetry” of ritual than they do to everyday speech. I can see only the broad outlines and get some insight into how they thought. There is every reason to believe that this language was a more formal version and more scientific version of what the average man used day to day. There is simply too little to go by other than the PT and my understanding of it is not total. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1675 "2015-05-14T01:13:45Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Actually I believe there was a universal language spoken by all men that was the foundation of their science that allowed the invention of agriculture and cities after lifting humanity from the caves. Had they actually been superstitious the race would have become extinct. > > We survived the collapse of the ancient language because ancient technology could be passed down asa a craft. Fine. You would like to believe that. It is not true, course, and there is evidence that your beliefs are wrong, but you are comfortable in your odd erroneous beliefs and you wander around the internet spouting them. For example, agriculture arose in multiple locations around the world, centuries apart. There is no reason to believe that some universal language allowed anyone to use a non-existent science speaking a non-existent language to develop agriculture in the way that you imagine. Cities arose even later than agriculture, long after your imaginary universal language would have broken into its many dialects and daughter languages. And, of course, the societies that did develop agriculture all left evidence behind that they were deeply involved with what you dismiss as superstition, and yet humanity thrived, regardless. Your beliefs are counter-factual and silly. > [@cladking](#): > > I’m merely paraphrasing their beliefs. In my opinion it is very close to their beliefs. Ask them. Ask whom? That is exactly the problem with your libels. You persistently claim that some nebulous “they” have made one claim or another, yet you cannot provide a single citation for any of those claims. It is not incumbent on me to go ask some imaginary “Egyptologist” (whose name you are refusing to divulge) what he or she believes. You made the claim; you need to document the evidence for your claim. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1676 "2015-05-14T01:17:29Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > They didn’t use ramps so it didn’t take 50,000 lives. \*\*The gods built the pyramids \*\* so it required only about 8,000 lives. They got something out of the pyramids to offset this cost. The gods??? (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1677 "2015-05-14T01:26:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The gods??? > > (bolding mine) The “gods.” Yanno, magic geysers. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1678 "2015-05-14T01:28:59Z")
You came back for THIS? 😛 [QUOTE=cladking] The pyramid is on a hill. There was water at the base of the pyramid. Therefore there was water on a hill. [/QUOTE] You yourself said that no evidence remains. So, you have failed, utterly, to demonstrate this. So, again, I don’t believe you. If anyone else in this thread had asserted the completely plausible idea that there COULD be a spring or other water source on the Giza plateau I’d probably accept that without comment, but from YOU…nope. You have repeatedly asserted stuff without backing up a single thing. > [@](#): > > Again, I have to refer you to a dictionary. A desert doesn’t have water and water wouldn’t normally be found on hills anyway. I happen to live in a desert, so you unless you are talking about the Atacama (we ARE talking about Egypt, right?) you are full of shit. The Egyptian desert has plenty of oasis and water (there is that Nile thingy if nothing else). Oh, and you still haven’t demonstrated water, a hill or anything else. Zero cites showing zero…and you handwaved in any case, since you admitted that none of the evidence remains in any case. It’s all out of your ass speculation based on your interpretation of ancient Egyptian texts. > [@](#): > > No. The water shot through the floor of a specifically designed structure that channeled it to the boat. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The ‘boat’ was 80+’ in the air from what you said before. To get 80+’ in the air is going to require the pressure I discussed earlier, whether they used a pipe or they used 80+’ of solid rock (both items which are conveniently long gone and there is zero evidence for, of course). You are just talking (or typing I suppose) to hear yourself babble at this point…it’s all meaningless drivel with no connection to reality, no evidence at all, and all based on your own internal fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1679 "2015-05-14T02:22:46Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I can quote this entire utterance and explain it but it will please or convince nobody. Let’s just say you took these lines out of context destroying the original meaning. The language in which they are written simply can’t be translated into modern languages. Meaning was in context. Are you serious? You’ve been quoting one or two lines at a time for weeks now, to support your theories. Now, when a lengthy passage (one of many, I should add, and it’s about a quarter of the utterance) contradicts your theory, it’s suddenly impossible to get meanings from individual passages? That’s the weakest of sauce, **cladking**. If you can’t explain how passages like this square with your theory, it’s ok to say so. You admitted that you didn’t know why the Egyptians mummified bodies if they cremated them, and the world didn’t end. Above, you’re basically stating that debating this with you is impossible: it can’t be done in English, and only you can read what the Egyptians _really_ meant (which, mind-blowingly, you do by reading it in English). You’re framing the discussion as being you lecturing us on evidence only you can see and understand. Why even debate this stuff in public fora, then? > [@cladking](#): > > Perhaps this is more complex than I’m making it sound and I don’t know many of the rules of grammar. Most of this is written in the vulgar which is quite unusual. I’m one man working alone and I haven’t had time to do the huge amount of work that will be required to completely understand all this. > > I don’t even really know how similar this was to everyday speech. These were rituals and some of what I’m seeing might apply more to the “poetry” of ritual than they do to everyday speech. I can see only the broad outlines and get some insight into how they thought. There is every reason to believe that this language was a more formal version and more scientific version of what the average man used day to day. There is simply too little to go by other than the PT and my understanding of it is not total. I know you prefer not to put work in, but it sounds like your theory needs a lot more work put in. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1680 "2015-05-14T02:36:32Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > Actual ropes survive. > > Just like most of my evidence it’s actually there. I don’t question that ropes existed. I seriously question that ropes could be built from the materials at hand that would lift rocks of that size via the mechanism you propose. Until you build something physical to demonstrate this and show the calculations that show the physical strength of those ropes, you have nothing. Right now, you have nothing. But it won’t matter, you didn’t reason yourself into this position and you’re not susceptible to reason. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1681 "2015-05-14T03:31:56Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It’s a parody of JFK’s quote about going to the moon. In other words, just a joke. > [@74westy](#): > > \*\*Telemark \*\*is right. I went for a cheap laugh but I didn’t have any problem with your post (aside from it being more thoughtful than mine.) Ah. Or, put more succinctly, “whoosh”. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=85)