# How were the pyramids in Egypt built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559 "2014-12-07T10:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 91
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1802 "2015-05-15T04:19:41Z")
> [@XT](#): > > …and there are also the tantalizing possibilities of forgotten or hidden underground shafts and such in and around the area. Sadly, a lot of this stuff has been put on hold since the troubles in Egypt, but I’m hopeful that they will get back on track at some point. I doubt it. Unless there is public pressure to do science they will continue with exactly as they are doing now. There are vast resources pumped into Egyptology that fuel the status quo and they’ve not been doing science for nearly a third of a century now. This is just the way it is. Zahi Hawass climnbed out of the Osiris Shaft in 1996 and said “there are important clues how the pyramid was built down there”. He never explained the statement and when the Osiris Shaft was later excavated he did nothing about excavating at the bottom where the water flows. They pump large amounts of water out of here on a daily basis. The Tomb of the Birds with its cave was sealed up even before the political problems began. They are still working in excavating here (principally at "KhentkawesTown about 2000’ south of G1) but theyt are looking for rampos and all the wrong things in all the wrong places. Houdin was given permission to do the infrared scan and then it was rescinded. They are afraid of the pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1803 "2015-05-15T05:41:19Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > There is erosion on the plateau. I doubt this is the result of any acid because the water IS DEGASSED long before it leaves the area. Some people think this is proof the Sphinx was carved before the last ice age; > > [http://www.catchpenny.org/images/sphinxe.gif](http://www.catchpenny.org/images/sphinxe.gif) > > I suppose now everyone will be impressed and want to get on board. Not impressed at all, again your insistence that the water is degassed goes against all evidence observed with the cold water geysers in existence. Again, you have no evidence, and you are going against physics and chemistry too. It is no wonder why I and many others concluded long ago that it is you the one relying on magic to make your contraptions to work in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1804 "2015-05-15T06:23:49Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I doubt it. > > Unless there is public pressure to do science they will continue with exactly as they are doing now. There are vast resources pumped into Egyptology that fuel the status quo and they’ve not been doing science for nearly a third of a century now. And as usual no one is believing what you claim when one can check how ignorant you are: Archeologists and engineers did dig and investigated the cities of the workers of the pyramids and robotic exploration of the pyramids was done in 2002. The research in the recently discovered cities of the workers has continued too. And exploration and digs continue there and elsewhere: > **[Egypt archaeologists find pharaoh chapel](https://phys.org/news/2015-04-egypt-archaeologists-pharaoh-chapel.html)** > > Archaeologists excavating an ancient temple site in Cairo have discovered part of a chapel used by a pharaoh about 2,300 years ago, Egypt's antiquities ministry said on Tuesday. > [@](#): > > A picture released by Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities on April 14, 2015 shows a carved basalt block, a piece that belongs to the bottom part of a chapel belonging to King Nectanebo I > > Archaeologists excavating an ancient temple site in Cairo have discovered part of a chapel used by a pharaoh about 2,300 years ago, Egypt’s antiquities ministry said on Tuesday. You really need cites for all the unbelievable things that you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1805 "2015-05-15T10:48:37Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I don’t believe they were stinky footed bumpkins. > > The population was only a little over 1 1/2 million and the economy was a primitive low tech barter economy. Apparently you do and you appear ignorant about Egyptian economy. Although there was some barter, on a small scale, the Egyptian economy was foremost a redistribution economy. All produce went to the state and was redistributed as rations. There was no money, no gold standard. If anything there was a ‘grain standard’ for products outside the redistribution system. > [@](#): > > Lifting the stones for G1 would represent wellover ha;f of the physical labor required to maintain the economy and would consume some 20% of GDP. The Egyptian economy besides being primitive was also relatively fragile due to the high dependence on the height of the nile flood. ‘20% of GDP’ is a hollow phrase in this system. They would have received their rations anyway, regardless if they were peasants, bureaucrats, priests, soldiers, masons, miners or whatever. This economy was hardly fragile, the values placed on goods could remain the same for hundreds and hundreds of years. Egypt was incredibly fertile and even with lower yields, in case of a bad flood year, hardly any real famines show up. > [@](#): > > They would have worked on these pyramids in the height of the growing seasoin at the hottest time of the year with no crop in the ground More gobeldygook. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1806 "2015-05-15T12:33:36Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > I hate to break this to you but nothing at all is known about construction. While this actually does apply to you the rest of us can use logic and the available evidence to draw some reasonable conclusions. We realize that what we are doing is speculation, but we have some chance of finding supporting evidence or re-evaluating those conclusions because we aren’t just making stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1807 "2015-05-15T12:36:38Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > The PT are the only writing that survives from the great pyramid building age. > [@cladking](#): > > When the word for “ramp” finally becomes attested a century after the end of the great pyramid building age it is an isosceles triangle lying on its side with the hypotenues to the left. Ironically in this first usage it is a means for men to get down rather than up; it is merely a path like a stairway. > [@cladking](#): > > Both ramps and “wheels” (pulleys) appear in the PT. > “Ramp” is used once in the coloquial form in reference to a walkway and “pulley” is used numerous times from the scientific perspective. Ok. Where? Also…your logic is really going off the rails here. You say that the word “ramp” didn’t appear until after the great pyramid buildin’ age, then note that the only writing from that period that survives is the PT, then note that “ramp” appears in the PT. So, are you just assuming that “ramp” wouldn’t have appeared in other writings if we had them, or what? > [@cladking](#): > > The lack of attestation from the pyramiod building age shows ramps were of no importance to the culture or it shows Egyptology doesn’t understand the culture, or both. Why would ramps be important to the culture? It’s a construction technique, nothing more. Are suspension bridges important to our culture? Reinforced concrete, perhaps? Cripple walls? To recap: you can’t explain 1197a-1198b, you won’t address the existence of other large, religious construction projects, you’ve abandoned logic entirely with your “attestation” games, and you have no evidence that the geyser water would somehow be de-acidified. Doing yeoman’s work, there, **cladking**. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1808 "2015-05-15T13:15:11Z")
_First there is a pyramid Then there is no pyramid Then there is …_ ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1809 "2015-05-15T14:04:45Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Also…your logic is really going off the rails here. You say that the word “ramp” didn’t appear until after the great pyramid buildin’ age, then note that the only writing from that period that survives is the PT, then note that “ramp” appears in the PT. So, are you just assuming that “ramp” wouldn’t have appeared in other writings if we had them, or what? > > Why would ramps be important to the culture? It’s a construction technique, nothing more. As far as I understand him, he thinks that the PT is an instruction manual for building the pyramids. All the references to gods are actually construction techniques. References to Horus are actually describing a geyser, and so on. The PT only mentions ramps once, so ramps weren’t used in the construction. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1810 "2015-05-15T14:10:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > As far as I understand him, he thinks that the PT is an instruction manual for building the pyramids. All the references to gods are actually construction techniques. References to Horus are actually describing a geyser, and so on. The PT only mentions ramps once, so ramps weren’t used in the construction. Does he? He also said they were rituals to be read to assembled crowds to commemorate the dead king: > [@cladking](#): > > There’s certainly no reason to believe this utterance deviates from the hundreds I do understand. They all are part of a whole and they are all just rituals read to the crowds at the kings’ ascension ceremonies. Maybe they were both. I’m sure **cladking** will clarify this. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1811 "2015-05-15T14:21:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Maybe they were both. Like the late Earl Warren? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1812 "2015-05-15T14:23:43Z")
Earl Warren wasn’t a construction manual! ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1813 "2015-05-15T14:31:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And as usual no one is believing what you claim when one can check how ignorant you are: > > Archeologists and engineers did dig and investigated the cities of the workers of the pyramids and robotic exploration of the pyramids was done in 2002. The research in the recently discovered cities of the workers has continued too. > > And exploration and digs continue there and elsewhere: > > [Egypt archaeologists find pharaoh chapel](http://phys.org/news/2015-04-egypt-archaeologists-pharaoh-chapel.html) > > You really need cites for all the unbelievable things that you claim. I guess I really was mistaken. This will be the first science done in nearly thirty years (outside the status quo) and will confirm geysers if it’s done properly and measures the height of each point. [http://www.aeraweb.org/articles/the-2015-great-pyramid-survey/nggallery/image/01-glen-dash-survey/](http://www.aeraweb.org/articles/the-2015-great-pyramid-survey/nggallery/image/01-glen-dash-survey/) This really restores a lot of my faith in the intelligence of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1814 "2015-05-15T14:36:51Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > As far as I understand him, he thinks that the PT is an instruction manual for building the pyramids. All the references to gods are actually construction techniques. References to Horus are actually describing a geyser, and so on. The PT only mentions ramps once, so ramps weren’t used in the construction. They are the ritual read to crowds as the great pyramids were uunder construction but these rituals were redacted after the geysers failed and then recorded in the tiny little pyramids. Since they were written by the builders themselves initially it is possible to understand their thought processes. The way a person thinks is always disclosed by the words he chooses to communicate. These words are so enigmatic largely because each Egyptian thought differently than modern people. And, of course, they are written in a language that can’t be translated. But once the words are understood you can still understand the thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1815 "2015-05-15T14:42:01Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > And, of course, they are written in a language that can’t be translated. But once the words are understood you can still understand the thinking. Are you the only person on earth that doesn’t understand that your first sentence isn’t compatible with your second sentence? ---
**Author:** ![cladking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@cladking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cladking)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1816 "2015-05-15T14:48:35Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The PT only mentions ramps once, so ramps weren’t used in the construction. That they are mentioned at all is an inconsisteny with my theory. Indeed, when I first found the word I nearly just gave up but the more I learned the more I came to understand that the fact is not problematical for my theory or at least not necessarily problematical. As I’ve said many times there is no doubt that Egyptians were familiar with concept of “ramps” and it would be an everyday word in their lives. So the appearance of the word in the PT can be just coincidence. The fact that it is used to describe a walkway reinforces the idea that it’s coincidence. But the biggest thing is that this attestation of the word is from after the great pyramid building age. There is still no overseer of ramp builders and still no overseer of stone draggers. All the facts remain facts despite the appearance of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1817 "2015-05-15T14:53:55Z")
> [@cladking](#): > > That they are mentioned at all is an inconsisteny with my theory. Indeed, when I first found the word I nearly just gave up but the more I learned the more I came to understand that the fact is not problematical for my theory or at least not necessarily problematical. > > As I’ve said many times there is no doubt that Egyptians were familiar with concept of “ramps” and it would be an everyday word in their lives. So the appearance of the word in the PT can be just coincidence. The fact that it is used to describe a walkway reinforces the idea that it’s coincidence. But the biggest thing is that this attestation of the word is from after the great pyramid building age. There is still no overseer of ramp builders and still no overseer of stone draggers. All the facts remain facts despite the appearance of the word. But you said no writing earlier than the PT survives, and the PT is from a century after the great pyramid…so how could the word be “attested”, if there’s no writing from the time period? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1818 "2015-05-15T14:56:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > As you say, the REAL magic and jaw dropping genius of the building of the pyramids is in the logistics that allowed the Egyptian kings during that period to martial the work force AND feed, clothe and support them in this endeavor. I’ve been to Egypt twice in my life (and I doubt I’ll have the time or opportunity to go back, unfortunately) and it’s really something to see and try and grasp. Cladking cheapens it, but not as much as the idiots who try and claim aliens built the things. I feel that’s a little unfair to **cladking**. Clearly, something about the Pyramids deeply impressed him and fired his imagination to the point that he’s spent a decade thinking about them. And for all the nonsense he’s spouted, he has never denied that they were built by human beings, using their minds and bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1819 "2015-05-15T15:06:39Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I feel that’s a little unfair to **cladking**. Clearly, something about the Pyramids deeply impressed him and fired his imagination to the point that he’s spent a decade thinking about them. And for all the nonsense he’s spouted, he has never denied that they were built by human beings, using their minds and bodies. If he’d spent all that time actually studying the history and culture, which I very much doubt he did, instead of viscerally staring at the pyramid texts, he could have become an accomplished Egyptologist.😉 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1820 "2015-05-15T15:49:21Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > If he’d spent all that time actually studying the history and culture, which I very much doubt he did, instead of viscerally staring at the pyramid texts, he could have become an accomplished Egyptologist.😉 oh, but you seee - by doing what he did - he became the only true egyptologist. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559/1821 "2015-05-15T15:56:48Z")
No matter which side you take, it always leads back to cladking being correct. It’s like a Mobius strip. He’s an Egyptopologist! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=90) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-the-pyramids-in-egypt-built/706559.md?page=92)