Since not one single papyrus survives and the single book that exists isn’t understood, we can’t really know much about their lieracy. My guess is that papyrus was very expensive so learning to write wasn’t especially important. People learned by coming to understand the metaphysical language as they went through life. Those with a proclivity for understanding were put into positions where they could learn more. Reading and writing just wasn’t very important due to the nature of the language which may account for the late invention of writing.
Certainly there could have been excellent continuity however if this is the case then why isn’t the only surviving book understood? Why can’t they even agree now on definitions of the most basic terms? Every indication is that there was no continuity at all and that which we percieve is merely a fascade. The descendents of the pyramid builders misunderstood them in exactly the same way we do. The vocabulary didn’t change when the language collapsed, only the way meaning was expressed.
This is why countless thousands of new words were added to all of the modern languages. We use 100,000 words most of which have many meanings but only a few thousand appear in the PT and each has a single meaning, I believe.
The Library of Alexandria wasn’t created until after the city of Alexandria was founded - by Alexander the Great. Who was, of couse, born after Herodotus’ works were already written.
Yes. And this is another thing that leads me to believe we have it all wrong. The base of the pyramid is some 190’ above the Nile and the port (so-called valley temple) was apparently on the Nile. Water couldn’t get up from the Nile so any water connection had to originate on the plateau itself.
There’s a new theory out that they used funiculars to transport the stones from the port. I doubt if this idea misses the mark by very much. I believe they lacked the materials tro make a proper funicular but they made a primitive equivalent.
I suspect the island referred to is a carved “island” at the bottom of the Osiris Shaft which is believed by Egyptology to be a symbolic burial of “osiris”. I believe that four fiery red jugs were filled with CO2 from the geyser (efflux of osiris) and put down here for future reference. Unfortunately this entire area was desicrated for decades and used as a swimming hole and water source. It was first dammed in the '20’s and then destroyed by vandals in the '30’s. The Coffoin Texts quite clearly states that a sample of CO2 was placed at Giza. There is flowing water down here still but it most probably isn’t man-made.
Ah well, my fault, I looked up the date of the destruction, but not when it was created. Still it’s possible that ancient records were lost at that time that might have been available in Herodotus’ lifetime.
There is a papyrus scroll that exists from 3300 BC proving that papyrus can survive so long. Unfortunately it is blank.
Also it appears the Greeks had extensive access to ancient material in 600 BC because they used it as a basis for the hermetic texts. I believe they couldn’t really understand it but they did the best they could. It’s this change in the language that makes so much ancient writing look like it was penned by a sun addled bumpkin. They knew ancient peoiplke were wise and powerful but they couldn’t read the writing. They simply translated their undersatanding of the ancient writing. See the tower of babel story in the Bible. It is one of these confusions about the change itself.
Google images “cave of the birds” egypt and you’ll probably see the picture of the chained up entrance and links to each part of the story.
This is what Egyptology does; they refuse to gather evidence or let in real scientists to do it. They padlock any new finds as soon as they are made. They fill evidence with concrete for the comfort of tourists while drilling holes in the pyramid looking for loot. They certainly have become the gatekeeper.
The PT says consistently, coherently, and repeatedly that the great pyramids were not tombs. They say that the king was cremated on the pyramid as it was being constructed. They didn’t believe the dead king lived forever, they believed people lived as long as they were remembered and they didn’t believe this literally. They literally believed nothing literally. The concept didn’t exist and they wouldn’t understand it.
All fdorms of mechanical advantage create heat and reduce efficiency. They work by spreading the work over distance or time meaning one man can do the work of two but in doing so he has to do extra work or work extra long.
Distance, in the case of a lever. But it’s still a net reduction in the amount of work required; a man with a lever can do more work than two without one.
Nothing survives from the great pyramid building age. The first writing appear from shortly after. Even the PT itself was actually found from a source after great pyramid building but is obviously more ancient writing.
There is no evidence of magic or religion other than interpretation of single words and the PT.
Egyptology misleads people about what is actually known from that era. There is no mountain of evidence and the word “ramp” isn’t even attested.
Heh, no biggie, I just thought I wasn’t getting the joke.
To my mind, it is certainly very likely that the Egyptian priesthood kept ancient records - it is just that it is also likely that the contents of those records would have been things of particular concern to priests.
From what I understand, there are very few (in fact, no) papyruses that have survived that describe construction techniques. Absence of evidence is not, of course, evidence of absence … but it is entirely possible that such matters were not recorded in writing, but simply passed down as tradecraft.
Can you provide a citation for any of this? You spend a lot of space talking about what “they” have done of not done, but pretty much all of it disagrees with pretty much everything I have read on the topic. Egyptologists are no more likely to be unanimous in their opinions than any other group of analysts, yet you continue to post as though there is only a single mainstream narrative that is “permitted”–even when what you claim “they” are saying contradicts everything else I have read.
So, these Egyptologists to whom you have ascribed the view that the builders’ village was too small and of whom you have claimed did some computer modeling that failed, and about whom you have made other remarks: please name them, note the publications or lectures in which they made these claims. Otherwise, we are left with the conclusion that you simply found a random book by some crackpots and you are trying to act as though they provide a majority view on these matters.
I get in the habit of describing it in very few words so it’s easy to miss. Simply they caught water from geysers near the top of its trajectory at 81’ 3". This water was used in a simple balance system to lift stones. On one side of the pyramid they filled a large counterweight with about 20 tons of water. This counterweight hanging over the side at 81’ 3" had a long rope that crossed the pyramid and hung down the other side. At the bottom it was attached to a large sled loaded with about 20 tons of stones. When the counterweight at the top became heavier than the load of stone it fell down the side and lifted the stones.
This system was remarkably simple at first as they built mastabas but then Imhotep came up with the idea of shortening the rope and building another mastaba right on top of the one they just built. Over the years they attached lots of bells ands whistles to the system and ironed out the bugs. They suddenly quit building great pyramids because they lost their water supply. They said that the “neters” built the pyramids because all the work was done by these natural processes. This was a labor of love built by genius and not some contrivance built by brutish bumpkins.
They called all these natural and man made processes “neters” which we and their descendents mistranslate as “gods”. They are all “natural phenomena” and the ancients didn’t differentiate between man made and natural because they believed everything they did was natural. Man was so much a part of nature that human characteristics were combined with animal characteristics and applied to all of nature. The “min” was an hydraulic leveling device on the east side apparently invented as construction of D1 was wrapping up. “Min” was as much a neter as the falling rain (nehebkau).
It was a different way of thinking that’s hard for us to see.
That’s not hard to see at all. They could have done something similar without a water supply though. You could just fill the counter weight sled with small stones instead of water. Maybe with a human chain, if you wanted to keep it simple. That would be a hell of a lot smarter than trying to catch a geyser at 80 feet up.
Chiefly they were a center of life called “the house of life”. They were a source of cool effervescent water. The water was used for industrial processes like canning and drying of foods. It powered the Great Saw Palace. It was used for laundry. The Great pyramid was a calender and a clock that could be seen for miles in some of the most densely populated areas. It was a testament to their genius and a means to remember their king since the pyramid became forever associated with him (Khufu’s Horizon was the ancient name). It probably had some practical purposes as well but this will require further research. Once it’s realized that these were easily built by a few men it’s no longer necessary to assign some spectacular or fantastic use like a tomb or alien transmitter. They probably at least served as a cap on an aquifer that was forever trying to emit “serpents” which would kill the unwary and sap the power of the water source.
I think a great deal of research will become apparent once there is a workable paradigm.
Yes, quite true, they could have used this method with using sand or stone. This would be more efficient than ramps and save the difficulty of building ramps.
But there’s a lot of work to lift all this ballast again and again. It’s just easier to sit in the shade drinking “cool effervescent water like wine” than it is to haul stones up a pyramid when it’s 110 degrees in the shade. One man can sip and lift more stones than a hundred men can lift by hauling ballast.
I have to say, your explanations are a lot more fantastic than it being a tomb, especially considering that it contained a sarcophagus; ie, it literally was a tomb.
One last thing: so what happened to humanity, that we lost this ancient super-language and all this incredible science? How did these non-bumpkin scientists give way to the bumpkins of subsequent eras?
That’s probably right. My only point was that a lot of ancient records were lost and it’s possible something was available for Herodotus. But after all that time he may have just seen someone else’s speculative concept of the pyramid construction. I think it’s unlikely that evidence exists that will tell us exactly how any of the pyramids were built, or even what Herodotus saw, if anything.
This stuff is all in the record and someone else can google it as easily as I can. I know the search engines don’t work any longer so I’m disinclined to spend a lot of time digging this stuff back up. I can provide some keywords where they aren’t apparent. Of course if youy want to buy any pyramids google can get you right there.
I’ve been paying a lot of attention to what goes on over there the last several years. There are professionals and amateurs who help keep me informed. My memory isn’t what it once was so details of Obama’s visit (6-4-'09) might get a little jumbled but important events are less likely to be wrong. All the information coming out supports the concept of water. Most of the new concepts about construction involve the use of water. Ramps have been falling by the wayside even before I debunked them.
The problem with Egyptology isn’t that they are dumb or something. The problem is they all see the great pyramids as tombs. They all see the people who built them as primitive and religious and believing in magic. They all believe the culture was continuous for many centuries. All Egyptological work as it applies tothe great pyramids is founded on these assumptions. They can’t cite evidence to support it because everything they know is based on these assumptions or is contained within the framework of these assumptions. Each of their arguments will assume the conclusion.
The only real science going on in recent years is Dr Lehner’s excavation of the builders village and KhentkawesTown. The finding are supporting my theory and I keep pointing this out. Most of Dr Lehner’s work has a good write-upo in Aeragram;
These don’t have a lot of meat because they are real science and science doesn’t progress rapidly. There are tidbits in them like cisterns that can be filled only by running water and flooded villages. I can spot these because I know what to look for because I have different paradigm that facts want to adhere to. This paradigm says they used water to build. The means of building can be easily determined by doing the testing or they can just test my theory. But they have not been doing the type of testing that would disclose the answer since 1987.
No, we can’t because we haven’t got a clue as to what you’re on about. It appears to be unsupported fantasy.
How about you provide what you think is the single best piece of evidence for your hypothesis with real citations? And explain why the current theories are invalidated by that evidence. That’d be a good place to start.
This is Great Debates; we’re not going to do your work for you. If you want to support your hypothesis you’re going to have to do the leg work.
