How were the pyramids in Egypt built?

[Alessan]

@cladking

If I knew how to prove the sky is blue I’d work on that instead.

1. Take camera.
2. Point at sky.
3. Take picture.
4. Show us picture.

[XT]

[QUOTE=cladking]
Yes. They had water stored at the base of the pyramid as well as in the Lake of the Jackal at 70’ on the pyramid. So there was absolutely no need to ever redefine the builders village to a port with no roads in the first place. If there wasa no water in these places as my theory predicts thewn they’d have had a long haul carrying the warm muddy schistosomiasis laden water up from the river.
[/QUOTE]

What the hell are you talking about? There were a bunch of ports that were used in the complex and a large branch of the river flowed right by the thing. How did you think they got the freaking granite from Aswan to the pyramid complex?? Magic? I have no idea what you think you are saying here, but there wasn’t one lonely port with no road out of it that could have been a builders village…and there wasn’t one tiny little builders village for a few people using your magic machine to build the pyramids. Again, you seem to thrive on the supposed ignorance of your target audience. Here’s an article about some of the archeological evidence for ports used to supply the pyramid complex. There are tons of additional articles on the large workers VILLAGES, cemeteries and other support infrastructure as well if you bothered to look.

There has never been such a thing as a port with no roads.

Gods know what the hell you are babbling about here, but there are plenty of ports with roads in and around the Giza pyramid complex.

There is no evidence to suggest it was a port.

But there is plenty of evidence suggestions many things that were obviously ports. I don’t even know what your objection to all of this is, since using your magic machine means they had to get the freaking granite from Aswan to the complex somehow, which meant boats, ports and folks dragging large rocks SOMEHOW at some point. You seem to object to stuff even when there is clear historical and archeological evidence for it and even when your own silly theory REQUIRES it…unless your magic machine teleported the stones from several hundred miles away to the base of the already erected pyramid so your machine could drag it up the side using mystical geysers and non-ramps which the Egyptians had no name for but used anyway. Or something.

It is the builders village and it is so tiny because there were very very few builders and half of them were womenm and children.

The more you talk the more clueless you sound. They have excavated multiple workers VILLAGESSSSSSSS…not one tiny village with a few guys in it and a bunch of women and children to watch in awe while your magic machine was used. They know pretty well how many workers were involved in the various projects and even have excavated the support structures, living quarters, administration facilities and cemeteries where workers were buried.

[XT]

[QUOTE=cladking]
You do realize it hasn’t been shown that a 50 ton stone can be dragged over sand? How wet would the sand have to be and how deep under the runners to support so much weight? What’s to the greatest pounds per square inch sand can support without collapsing?
[/QUOTE]

Rather than point out, again, that many people moved similar stones in similar ways before and after the Egyptians, and that THEY moved them with wooden sledges across sand, let me ask you this in a different way. Since you are focused on the granite with that weight, how, in your own theory, did they move it Aswan to the pyramid complex so that they could connect it to your magic machine (that could life a 20-80 tonne granite block vertically into the air and presumably lower it into the tomb area or whatever you think it was)? Did they not drag the stones? Or did they build a magical levitation system or use geyser power to lift the stones so some of the children playing in the tiny village could push them to the workers lazying about in the shade sipping water? I really don’t know what your objection is here except that I think even you realize that if workers could move these stones across the sand using water as a lubricant and wooden sleds that they could probably move them up ramps too, which would negate or at least throw some doubt on your own pet theory. But whether they moved the blocks up ramps or used the mystic geyser machine they still had to move the blocks TO the pyramid complex…so, in your theoretical concept how’d they do it? Leave aside ramps and magical water machines and just answer the question (without snipped out quotes of your garbled translation of supposed Egyptian text but in plain English).

They have shown pictures of the sand and it is a different fraction of the sand art Giza.

Do. You. Have. A. Cite. For. This? Yes or no?

[cladking]

@XT

Asserting something over and over doesn’t really equate to evidence. This doesn’t seem to daunt you, but it’s true. You can keep saying the same unproven bullshit and it still won’t suddenly make a pile of horseshit into a believable narrative.

You’ll need to tell me specifically where you don’t agree so I can expand and defend it. You’re just saying I’m wrong about everything and expecting it to stick just like Egyptologists repeat “they mustta used ramps” ad infinitum expecting that to stick.

I’m not afraid of the evidence because it’s on my side.

[iiandyiiii]

@cladking

I’m not afraid of the evidence because it’s on my side.

Then why not share it? Show us pictures of the sand. Show us models of your methods that show that they actually are feasible.

[cladking]

@XT

Or did they build a magical levitation system or use geyser power to lift the stones so some of the children playing in the tiny village could push them to the workers lazying about in the shade sipping water? I really don’t know what your objection is here except that I think even you realize that if workers could move these stones across the sand using water as a lubricant and wooden sleds that they could probably move them up ramps too, which would negate or at least throw some doubt on your own pet theory.

You talk about using the easiest possible means to build this as though it would only be done by the shiftless! This is a difficult concept for me to understand. Why would using an easy way to lift 6 1/2 million tons for no good reason make one lazy? I think this is one of the chief problems people have with my theory. They picture the people as stupid but very hard working. I don’t know what’s attractive about ten of thousands of men grunting and heaving in the summer sun drinking warm muddy schistosomiasis laden water and sleeping on ramps but it never happened and there’s no evidence that it did. Now I challenge both the stupid and hard working concepts and people are appalled.

There was a huge amount of work to do to build these and the builders village was packed tight with some 8000 men women and children the first couple years when stone demand was very high. It was probably packed so tight that in nice weather many men would pitch their tents just to the south of the Wall of the Crow that protected them from the gasses pouring down the valley. They simply lacked the manpower to do the work Egyptologists expect of them. There weren’t even enough people to build ramps far less quarry the stones and drag them up. This was a tiny ANCIENT economy that supported these projects and it lacked the resources that would be required to build and use ramps.

The total amount of work to build these was stupendous and every worker did a huge amount of work. Even the women and children were needed to complete the job. But they all nestled in the village just fine and they weren’t dragging stones. The “gods” did all the heavy lifting exactly as they said over and over in a language their descendents called “the words of the gods”.

The evidence all fits the exact same pattern and while it seems fantastic to modern people it is still highly logical and extremely well evidenced as a pattern. The only single part of the nature in building that seems fantastic really is that the water (geysers) could be forgotten but this is quite explicable when it is simply remembered that the ancient language is incomprehensible to us and it was incomprehensible to their descendents. Of course it was forgotten!!!

But even at that it is evidenced there was water and it wasn’t wholly forgotten as it appears in the works of ancient authors from Horapollo to Herodotus. I wouldn’t be surprised if Manetho’s account is fairly accurate (probably distorted though) but we may never know since no copies of most of his books survive.

[Czarcasm]

@cladking

You’ll need to tell me specifically where you don’t agree so I can expand and defend it. You’re just saying I’m wrong about everything and expecting it to stick just like Egyptologists repeat “they mustta used ramps” ad infinitum expecting that to stick.

I’m not afraid of the evidence because it’s on my side.

So it’s, like, tattooed on the right and/or left side of your body? Strange. Could you get someone to take a picture of it and post it online for us to see?

[Human_Action]

@cladking

Yes. They had water stored at the base of the pyramid as well as in the Lake of the Jackal at 70’ on the pyramid. So there was absolutely no need to ever redefine the builders village to a port with no roads in the first place. If there wasa no water in these places as my theory predicts thewn they’d have had a long haul carrying the warm muddy schistosomiasis laden water up from the river.

There has never been such a thing as a port with no roads. There is no evidence tosuggest it was a port. It is the builders village and it is so tiny because there were very very few builders and half of them were womenm and children. Ramps are debunked based on facts and logic and no amount of dumping water on sand will make ramps regrow.

I don’t know what you’re talking about here, the only reading I’ve done about the builders’ village was in the piece I linked to earlier about it housing about 5,000 full-time workers. Again: you don’t have to, and shouldn’t, couch most of your arguments for your theory in criticism of other theories. Either yours works, or it doesn’t. The constant jabs at other theories, or as often as not strawmen of other theories, has nothing to do with whether yours is right.

@cladking

You do realize it hasn’t been shown that a 50 ton stone can be dragged over sand? How wet would the sand have to be and how deep under the runners to support so much weight? What’s to the greatest pounds per square inch sand can support without collapsing?

My dog just walks closer to the water until he doesn’t sink in but then he doesn’t do much math or weigh 50 tons.

Sorry, the link earlier to the study was miscoded, here it is again. It costs $25, or you can access it from a public library, or if you’re a member of an institution that subscribes to this journal. I’m sure your concerns about scaling and such are addressed within the study. Have you read it?

@cladking

They have shown pictures of the sand and it is a different fraction of the sand art Giza.

According to the abstract, they used multiple samples of sand. These are scientists, not message board dilettantes.

@cladking

Just because there’s not much of a punchline and you don’t see the humor doesn’t mean it isn’t funny. This nonsense is in response to my objections and the debunkment. Even Egyptologists can see that some parts of the debunkment are legitimate (they all are) and are trying to shore up the failed theory. They believe my observation that the builders village is too small is the strongest part of the debunkment so they invented a port with no roads and wet sand. The concept of men dragging 50 ton stones on wet sand up hills and then sleeping on ramps is ludicrous just like the whole ramp concept. There were no ramps and they are still debunked.

If I knew how to prove the sky is blue I’d work on that instead. In the meantime all the evidence agrees stones were pulled straight up the side one step at a time.

All the evidence agrees they did it the easy way.

All the evidence agrees they did it the direct way.

The joke is this nonsense: you’re so right that you don’t know how to prove it? It’s self-evident, except there’s no way to model your device or test your claims? You’re now using the playbook of dowsers and mediums, y’know. No wonder you hold science in contempt; it’s a threat to you.

[Human_Action]

@cladking

You talk about using the easiest possible means to build this as though it would only be done by the shiftless! This is a difficult concept for me to understand. Why would using an easy way to lift 6 1/2 million tons for no good reason make one lazy? I think this is one of the chief problems people have with my theory. They picture the people as stupid but very hard working. I don’t know what’s attractive about ten of thousands of men grunting and heaving in the summer sun drinking warm muddy schistosomiasis laden water and sleeping on ramps but it never happened and there’s no evidence that it did. Now I challenge both the stupid and hard working concepts and people are appalled.

There was a huge amount of work to do to build these and the builders village was packed tight with some 8000 men women and children the first couple years when stone demand was very high. It was probably packed so tight that in nice weather many men would pitch their tents just to the south of the Wall of the Crow that protected them from the gasses pouring down the valley. They simply lacked the manpower to do the work Egyptologists expect of them. There weren’t even enough people to build ramps far less quarry the stones and drag them up. This was a tiny ANCIENT economy that supported these projects and it lacked the resources that would be required to build and use ramps.

The total amount of work to build these was stupendous and every worker did a huge amount of work. Even the women and children were needed to complete the job. But they all nestled in the village just fine and they weren’t dragging stones. The “gods” did all the heavy lifting exactly as they said over and over in a language their descendents called “the words of the gods”.

The evidence all fits the exact same pattern and while it seems fantastic to modern people it is still highly logical and extremely well evidenced as a pattern. The only single part of the nature in building that seems fantastic really is that the water (geysers) could be forgotten but this is quite explicable when it is simply remembered that the ancient language is incomprehensible to us and it was incomprehensible to their descendents. Of course it was forgotten!!!

But even at that it is evidenced there was water and it wasn’t wholly forgotten as it appears in the works of ancient authors from Horapollo to Herodotus. I wouldn’t be surprised if Manetho’s account is fairly accurate (probably distorted though) but we may never know since no copies of most of his books survive.

He asked you how the stones were moved to the pyramid site…mind answering him?

[Shodan]

@cladking

You talk about using the easiest possible means to build this as though it would only be done by the shiftless! This is a difficult concept for me to understand. Why would using an easy way to lift 6 1/2 million tons for no good reason make one lazy? I think this is one of the chief problems people have with my theory. They picture the people as stupid but very hard working. I don’t know what’s attractive about ten of thousands of men grunting and heaving in the summer sun drinking warm muddy schistosomiasis laden water and sleeping on ramps but it never happened and there’s no evidence that it did. Now I challenge both the stupid and hard working concepts and people are appalled.

How did they move the stones?

There was a huge amount of work to do to build these and the builders village was packed tight with some 8000 men women and children the first couple years when stone demand was very high. It was probably packed so tight that in nice weather many men would pitch their tents just to the south of the Wall of the Crow that protected them from the gasses pouring down the valley. They simply lacked the manpower to do the work Egyptologists expect of them. There weren’t even enough people to build ramps far less quarry the stones and drag them up. This was a tiny ANCIENT economy that supported these projects and it lacked the resources that would be required to build and use ramps.

How did they move the stones?

The total amount of work to build these was stupendous and every worker did a huge amount of work. Even the women and children were needed to complete the job. But they all nestled in the village just fine and they weren’t dragging stones. The “gods” did all the heavy lifting exactly as they said over and over in a language their descendents called “the words of the gods”.

How did they move the stones?

The evidence all fits the exact same pattern and while it seems fantastic to modern people it is still highly logical and extremely well evidenced as a pattern. The only single part of the nature in building that seems fantastic really is that the water (geysers) could be forgotten but this is quite explicable when it is simply remembered that the ancient language is incomprehensible to us and it was incomprehensible to their descendents. Of course it was forgotten!!!

How did they move the stones?

Regards,
Shodan

[cladking]

@Alessan

1. Take camera.
2. Point at sky.
3. Take picture.
4. Show us picture.

Do you think the picture will be blue enough if I have to use moonlight?

I can could take it during the day but my film is so fast I’ll have to wait for a heavy overcast.

I’ve seen some pretty spectacular skies over the decades and many of them could not be described as blue.

The Egyptians said some pretty interesting things about this but then what they said just looks like the ramblings of sun addled bumpkins to everyone else so why post them? People today share a single perspective. This wasn’t true when the pyramids were built.

"26. O Sekhmet, at whose setting the darkness appears, in such a way that if
someone nods his head (lit., makes a nod of the head) to his neighbor, they
will not see one another! "

The Hundred Names of Sekhmet

Nothing they said means anything at all because we don’t understand it. In this case it’s even a confusion of ancient language written in modern language. Sekhmet was the lady of the magic lamp and she swamped the fire to make it burn. There’s no reason to try to understand this because they didn’t know science and their religion and magic are incomprehensible.

These people and their culture have been marginalized by Egyptology. This marginalization is holding back the entire human race. It casts Egypt in a poor light.

[Czarcasm]

@Shodan

How did they move the stones?How did they move the stones?How did they move the stones?How did they move the stones?

Regards,
Shodan

Horizontal geysers, duh!

[cladking]

@Shodan

How did they move the stones?How did they move the stones?How did they move the stones?How did they move the stones?

I have little time right now and the answer is complex.

But most of the stone movements couldn’t have been simpler, they merely used many methods. It appears funiculars may have been used to pull the stones up from the industrial fascility at rivers edge that Egyptologists mistakingly call the “valley temple”. Then they were pulled up the side by what might be described as a “linear funicular”.

Later…

[kaylasdad99]

Ramps, huh?

Cool.

[XT]

sigh

[QUOTE=cladking]
You talk about using the easiest possible means to build this as though it would only be done by the shiftless!
[/QUOTE]

No, it was done by humans who would have done the job in the easiest way they could, not the most complex or cool to show how technologically advanced they were.

Why would using an easy way to lift 6 1/2 million tons for no good reason make one lazy? I think this is one of the chief problems people have with my theory. They picture the people as stupid but very hard working.

This is your own strawman and is based on your ridiculous perception that doing something simple somehow makes the folks doing it ‘lazy’, ‘shiftless’ or ‘bumpkins’. I’m really sorry you have this hangup, but it’s YOUR hangup and has nothing to do with reality. The Egyptians weren’t lazy, shiftless OR bumpkins because they used manual labor to build one of the greatest monuments in history…they were geniuses, able to martial the kinds of work forces to do the work, to martial the support structure to do the work, could CONCEIVE the work and make it happen using the tools and techniques available to them at that time. You have a seriously warped view of what all was involved and where the real genius of all of this stuff lay, as well as a warped perspective of Egyptologists, historians and archeologists. This is based on your fundamental ignorance of this subject which is shown, literally, in every one of your posts. You know a few vertical things about the subject, but you have no fundamental understanding of the subject from a broad perspective, which is why your theory is so laughable, and why your objections to some of the basics make it clear that you really don’t know much about this stuff. I’m not expert on this nor have I slept in a Holiday Inn Express lately, so if I can run rings around you with half remembered info from college classes taken 3 decades ago and some Googling skills you know you are in trouble.

There was a huge amount of work to do to build these and the builders village was packed tight with some 8000 men women and children the first couple years when stone demand was very high. It was probably packed so tight that in nice weather many men would pitch their tents just to the south of the Wall of the Crow that protected them from the gasses pouring down the valley. They simply lacked the manpower to do the work Egyptologists expect of them. There weren’t even enough people to build ramps far less quarry the stones and drag them up. This was a tiny ANCIENT economy that supported these projects and it lacked the resources that would be required to build and use ramps.

Sorry, but you are (again) simply wrong. The real genius of the project was the ability of the Egyptians to martial and support the workers doing the work…thousands of workers over decades. This isn’t a guess by ‘Egyptologists’, they have excavated the workers complexes, dormitories, store houses, administration buildings, manufactures, graveyards, etc…they have learned a staggering amount about this, especially in the last 20 years. None of this is a secret, and you COULD know all about it if you simply took some time to stop spouting horseshit and read a little, expand your mind a little, and at least learn the basics and the fundamentals. Once you do that, THEN re-look at your theory and see how or if it fits. At least in discussions like this you won’t come off as someone with a crazy idea who doesn’t know the fundamentals of the subject.

It was probably packed so tight that in nice weather many men would pitch their tents just to the south of the Wall of the Crow that protected them from the gasses pouring down the valley.

They had dormitories and sleeping rooms, man. Seriously, a 30 second Google search shows tons of stuff, like this.

[CarnalK]

Musta been funiculars!

[Shodan]

@cladking

I have little time right now and the answer is complex.

But most of the stone movements couldn’t have been simpler, they merely used many methods. It appears funiculars may have been used to pull the stones up from the industrial fascility at rivers edge that Egyptologists mistakingly call the “valley temple”. Then they were pulled up the side by what might be described as a “linear funicular”.

Later…

You claimed -

This was a tiny ANCIENT economy that supported these projects and it lacked the resources that would be required to build and use ramps.

If they didn’t have the resources to build or use ramps, how did they have the resources to build or use funiculars? Funiculars require ramps.

Do you know what a funicular is? Or do you think a mountain is an inclined plane but a pyramid isn’t?

Regards,
Shodan

[XT]

@CarnalK

Musta been funiculars!

There is exactly as much evidence they built funiculars as there is that they used mystical geysers! The King 'o Clad might be onto something here!!! :eek:

[Bryan_Ekers]

@cladking

You talk about using the easiest possible means to build this as though it would only be done by the shiftless!

Tramps, huh? Cool.

[simster]

@XT

There is exactly as much evidence they built funiculars as there is that they used mystical geysers! The King 'o Clad might be onto something here!!! :eek:

they were funiculatin mother…