# How were these \[brick arches\] built? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 22, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354 "2015-02-22T17:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/21 "2015-02-23T13:59:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > A local pizza eatery has some brick arches in the eating area ([pics](https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qf3f740muuy1uvh/AACSuZ8CeQAcnbPZXaUVB7Cpa?dl=0)). I’ve always wondered how the arches were built. Did they use a vertical wooden form, and lay the bricks atop it? Or perhaps the arches were made on the ground (using a form), and then the whole arch was pivoted upwards after the mortar cured. Ask Marion! No, he passed away. Ask Roger! ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/22 "2015-02-23T14:42:01Z")
Bricks? Why use [bricks?](https://www.flickr.com/photos/bubbapup/2964938006/in/set-72157621820220995) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/23 "2015-02-23T15:31:45Z")
> [@BlueOhio](#): > > Ask Marion! No, he passed away. Ask Roger! 🙂 I sent an email to Marion’s Piazza via their website, and asked about the arches. (I think the arches are in most of their restaurants.) I’ll report back if I get a response. ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/24 "2015-02-23T15:36:42Z")
I was thinking of Marion’s as I opened your thread. Small world. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/25 "2015-02-23T15:38:21Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > (I think the arches are in most of their restaurants.) That right there argues against on-site construction, or true masonry. IMVHO. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/26 "2015-02-23T16:05:54Z")
The supporting form underneath an arch is called “falsework”. It is removed once the structure is supporting itself. > **[Falsework](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsework)** > > Falsework consists of temporary structures used in construction to support a permanent structure until its construction is sufficiently advanced to support itself. For arches, this is specifically called centering. Falsework includes temporary support structures for formwork used to mold concrete in the construction of buildings, bridges, and elevated roadways. > The British Standards of practice for falsework, BS 5975:2008, defines falsework as "Any temporary structure used to support a permanen... However I not sure that is real masonry I see in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/27 "2015-02-23T18:33:40Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > My problem with a free standing arch like this is that it is just too easy to push over. An arch is very strong in compression but a sideways impact would easily cause serious injuries if it fell down. It’s not even that strong in compression. A pure arch, yes, because the compressing force is distributed into the ground. But an arch built on top of vertical pillars like the OP’s example presses outwards where it meets the pillars. That’s why structural arches are usually built in rows like [this](http://haveblogwilltravel.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Carmo-Convent-Lisbon-1_mini.jpg) - because they can be buttressed at either end. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/28 "2015-02-23T19:20:26Z")
Those are not true brick arches. Take a look at the descent into the surrounding wall, they were not built as part of the wall, you just would not build an arch like this - not in brick . Now take a look at this almost forgotten skewed railway viaduct arch, incredible craftsmanship -remember that this has to fit into a whole series of other arches coming in from a different angle. [http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill\_dvsn/5082352426/in/photostream/](http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/5082352426/in/photostream/) [http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill\_dvsn/289656711/in/photostream/](http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/289656711/in/photostream/) [http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill\_dvsn/289636144/in/photostream/](http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/289636144/in/photostream/) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/29 "2015-02-23T19:23:13Z")
I just want to add one of my favourite photos from this person, its of an old decaying graveyard, but you just have to grin [https://www.flickr.com/photos/phill\_dvsn/565020765/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/565020765/) ---
**Author:** ![albino\_manatee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/albino_manatee/32/2_2.png) [@albino\_manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/albino_manatee)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/30 "2015-02-23T19:44:24Z")
imho … the frame that acted as surrogate for the brick arches was the exact same wooden-frame that created the masonry-arches for the exterior windows of the restaurant. and, no … the bricks are not specially designed wider at one edge … this is simply an illusion … manifested through _skewed_ mortar concave-joints. by right-clicking each **dropbox** image, you can “view original” … i can easily visualize eight rebar lengths … two inside the outer short-bricks … two inside the inner short-bricks … and four inside the “long-bricks” taking up the center of the arch. not my intention to mislead or misrepresent … it is important to note, all bricks are same exact dimensions … short or long. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/31 "2015-02-23T21:07:10Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I just want to add one of my favourite photos from this person, its of an old decaying graveyard, but you just have to grin > > [https://www.flickr.com/photos/phill\_dvsn/565020765/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/565020765/) I’m sure it’s very interesting, but I got a Flickr sign-up page and bailed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/32 "2015-02-23T21:42:24Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m sure it’s very interesting, but I got a Flickr sign-up page and bailed. Odd. No sign-in for me, and I don’t have a Flickr account. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/33 "2015-02-24T01:49:46Z")
If you’re signed into a Yahoo! account in Chrome Flickr will recognize you. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/34 "2015-02-24T02:03:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you’re signed into a Yahoo! account in Chrome Flickr will recognize you. That doesn’t seem to be it. I’m not signed into any Yahoo! accounts so far as I know, and I am in Chrome. The Flickr page linked to comes up and there is a “Sign In” in the upper right hand corner, indicating I’m apparently not signed in anywhere. I don’t recall being forced to sign in to view anyone’s Flickr pictures before, so I’m curious what it is. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/35 "2015-02-24T02:07:55Z")
I see no reason to believe that the OP’s photographs depict anything but site built, from scratch, genuine masonry. It is entirely possible that ultimately it will be found to be no more than a well done construct of faux masonry, but no reasoning put forth thus far support such a conclusion. Check out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ) for some fascinating arch / vault techniques that some experts here may find interesting. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/36 "2015-02-24T02:39:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The only thing I find curious are the bricks on the interior of the arch, the exposed ends are all about the same color while the sides vary. That would only indicate some kind of extruded material and not a standard fired clay brick. Many brickworks (most) now **do** extrude their product. The end result is indeed a real, fired brick. Modern brick manufacturers usually employ surface applied stain / dye to achieve their color variants. Often, due to process constraints, (wire cutting of the extrusion) this colorant is omitted on the ends of the brick. This may explain your observation. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/37 "2015-02-24T04:22:04Z")
You might also ask [this construction company](http://rlfender.com/projects.html) that built at least one of the locations. They’d probably know more than the IT guy at the pizza website. When looking at individual bricks, you can sometimes tell the mortar is visibly thicker on the outside of the curve than the inside and the brick is tilted a little. Also, pick a spot in the arch and count a number of inner bricks then see how many middle and outer bricks line up with them. Now, find the exact same spot in the other side of the arch and see if the numbers are the same. In once place, I counted a section of 10 inner bricks. Lining up perfectly with those were 11 middle bricks and 12 outer bricks which, due to the curvature, made a perfectly straight mortar line above and below all three groups of bricks. Then I counted the exact same 10 inner bricks on the other side of the arch and ended up with 11.25 middle and 12.5 outer bricks. The mortar lines didn’t line up at all. In the same place on another arch, I got 10, 11.5 and 12. So, they’re all slighty off in the arch, but not in the lower parts where the bricks are flat. I don’t see how, or why, you’d make faux bricks that line up perfectly while flat then not line up the same in any of the curved parts of the arches. So, my money is on the bricks being real. Whether prefabricated or built in place doesn’t really matter, it’s the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/38 "2015-02-24T06:05:08Z")
The only comment I would make on the notion of a **prefab** masonry assembly in this context, versus in situ construction: This kind of construction is always done on site… It cannot be PRACTIALLY pre fabricated, shipped, then installed. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/39 "2015-02-24T14:18:21Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > The only comment I would make on the notion of a **prefab** masonry assembly in this context, versus in situ construction: This kind of construction is always done on site… It cannot be PRACTIALLY pre fabricated, shipped, then installed. Assuming it’s anything like actual masonry. That’s been the question since the first post or so. Given that there are several at each restaurant, and a number of restaurants, and generally given how chain and clone restaurants are developed and managed from the image/experience viewpoint - I’d still wager that these are some degree of faux created in a shop somewhere. I suspect brick facing over some kind of core. The many problems with the cost, safety and stability of such thin archways in a busy public space - all raised earlier - also point to something cheaper, easier to replicate and stronger/safer than genuine masonry construction. Maybe we’ll find out one of these days. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354/40 "2015-02-25T14:02:28Z")
I’ll add that the restaurant is notoriously cheap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-these-brick-arches-built/713354.md?page=1)