# How were you meant to order off this kind of 19th century menu? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [July 7, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536 "2022-07-07T07:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/41 "2022-07-07T17:56:02Z")
There was an episode of Downton Abbey in which there was a problem with the formal suit owned by Robert Crawley, the earl who owned the title house, so that he instead wore a tuxedo to dinner. His mother the Dowager Countess, practically fainted and said something about coming to dinner in his pajamas. And this was for a regular dinner at home with just family present. That’s how formally people dressed at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/42 "2022-07-07T17:56:55Z")
Sorry about that. I was able to read the whole thing for some reason, but not a second time. Basically, what we’ve read about him for years is neither substantiated by documentation nor supported by medical fact: “No one came close to Diamond Jim. A typical feeding would be two or three dozen large oysters, half a dozen crabs, two bowls of turtle soup, six or seven lobsters, two whole ducks, a steak and half a dozen venison chops. Dessert was a pound or two of chocolates. Everything was washed down with gallons of orange juice.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/43 "2022-07-07T18:02:53Z")
[Here](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/dining/31diam.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3ieua3HPDm0biOgUBYmG9ACWPKZibt513yieQJUJFo4Tc8FI770VOV1xGU7vq4GYmZ8BLmI4pdnsVThrhNedBOtmtGLhPjn8Iekkzvjj4B6KbGbpWqWJhHcxNU0y98seAFKp0HEKwqvXQKUiipQlg6BXVt0tTiwAZSKKo_DtFxx7Xd2MZRjc4QAwMPpLDXCRxZXPruJdL3gBTA7OX3h94m0j6dJDOdxxPKf3LhUoeceWkqx_Qn0zuXJcSZgbI0NlY1vt&smid=url-share) is a gift link to that article about Diamond Jim Brady. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/44 "2022-07-07T18:03:21Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/45 "2022-07-07T18:06:04Z")
Well, rich people, or people keeping up the appearance of rich. Your coal miners, textile workers, domestic servants, agricultural labourers, etc., not so much ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/46 "2022-07-07T18:10:37Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > It was expected that everyone dressed for dinner. > > I don’t think this meant wearing a suit, for men. Doesn’t “dressing for dinner” imply white tie, and wearing a tuxedo would be unexpectedly informal? > > That was my impression from conversations between Jeeves and Wooster, anyway. Might not apply to restaurant dining. No, that’s right. You wouldn’t wear the same type of suit you wore during the day. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/47 "2022-07-07T18:24:18Z")
Fast forward 68 years to Baltimore, and peruse these two pages from the menu of [Haussner’s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussner%27s_Restaurant), the greatest restaurant of my youth. These are the seafood and entree pages for one day in February 1967. [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1GHGa5ZEoyubvBq5ZwPM_rfG6PLxz1Jo25JRmE2SHtUEAWSjdt9ThKHvh7Fr7BtJonBiKU5KpV_Fc5CpGIAGDTszW3ChOV32odwHGRXE3wSgf7VD0PJ4UeTRVKy7C-KrtE7dnIfmX5U=w582-h315-p-k "New item by James Hyder") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/F6FENCp1JChUC6vw6) [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qkqM_fhZqZhA93sLcufwSAnxkrJRNw8NUXQWPyeL47WYeBhmnXmXAPYni-G12RqKJRm4WOJfmeX0mu75WfZ7sforqif1_qQNy2kYOeZK9DtHmISAjwdzalHHYqGv5JyZUxEeshqoPkQ=w582-h315-p-k "New item by James Hyder") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/LS8XbHkF1Qo8WBAJ9) (Click to see the full images.) By my count, there are nearly 100 entrees on those two pages (note that they actually had to type a few entries sideways to fit them on the page), and this doesn’t include their standard offerings on the permanent printed menus glimpsed under the daily pages. Or sandwiches. Or their extensive list of pies, cakes, pastries, and other desserts. My family went there often when I was a child, and I regret I did not go there more frequently as an adult before it closed in 1999. Sic transit gloria mundi. Sadly, the wiki entry does not do justice to the unbelievable experience that was Haussner’s Restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/48 "2022-07-07T18:33:32Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Also, what sort of dress code are we talking about? I assume I have to take off my baseball cap, but are they gonna want me to put on a jacket? You would wear the American style of formal dress. A Google Image search for [Delmonico’s 1899](https://www.google.com/search?q=delmonicos+1899&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ALiCzsatPg9ItrsoLo2B242Egc1zFFbIow%3A1657218182792&source=hp&biw=1192&bih=579&ei=hiTHYvCNLYyn5NoPz_-B6Aw&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYscyljvWri72vwufUaDTzEzDWmVAhrXn&ved=0ahUKEwjw6OPosuf4AhWME1kFHc9_AM0Q4dUDCAY&uact=5&oq=delmonicos+1899&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJzoICAAQsQMQgwE6BQgAEIAEOggIABCABBCxAzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwFQAFiYH2CEKGgAcAB4AIABvgGIAZ0MkgEEMTIuM5gBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img#imgrc=53Or19HZhM4YsM) brings up a number of images, with the men similarly dressed. Except for formal banquets for men’s groups, all those pictures include women. Since corsets were standard in that era, I don’t think women could physically eat 14-course dinners of full plates. Expectations were different. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/49 "2022-07-07T18:36:07Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > as best as I can tell an “entrement” is a type of dessert > An entremet or entremets (/ˈɑːntrəmeɪ/; French: [ɑ̃tʁəmɛ]; from Old French, literally meaning “between servings”) in French cuisine historically referred to small dishes served between courses but in modern times more commonly refers to a type of dessert. [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entremet) ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/50 "2022-07-07T18:40:12Z")
The farthest back an inflation calculator that I can find will go is 1913, but at that point that $2.50 filet of beef was about $75 today. [https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=2.50&year1=191301&year2=202205](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=2.50&year1=191301&year2=202205) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/51 "2022-07-07T18:54:16Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > You managed to make a time machine. I think you got this. No, I said if I was granted a super power, so the time machine was given to me. Type 40? I dunno, what does the manual say? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/52 "2022-07-07T18:56:47Z")
So just a little above average Las Vegas Strip steakhouse price. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/53 "2022-07-07T19:01:07Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > “No one came close to Diamond Jim. A typical feeding would be two or three dozen large oysters, half a dozen crabs, two bowls of turtle soup, six or seven lobsters, two whole ducks, a steak and half a dozen venison chops. Dessert was a pound or two of chocolates. Everything was washed down with gallons of orange juice.” Did he order it all mixed up together in a bucket, with the eggs on top? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/54 "2022-07-07T19:03:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 1899 In 1899 New York City, would “DINNER” have meant an evening meal, or an early afternoon meal? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/55 "2022-07-07T19:07:15Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > No, that’s right. You wouldn’t wear the same type of suit you wore during the day. Unless of course it was the first night of an ocean voyage. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/56 "2022-07-07T19:08:49Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > By my count, there are nearly 100 entrees on those two pages A good number of Chinese restaurants these days have menus that span 100+ items. And the old Greek-owner diners had menus that were probably just as close: just pages after pages of dishes you can order. This is the 80s, 90s, and about halfway into the 00s. Most of those joints, hell, maybe almost all, have since closed. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/57 "2022-07-07T19:21:01Z")
Chinese menus can be so large because there are many dishes that use the same ingredients, just a different meat. So you have eight different lo mein dishes, seven egg foo yung, etc. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/58 "2022-07-07T19:21:28Z")
So, Taco Bell, basically. Still, looking at a local place’s menu (Lao Szechuan) I see these items: Sliced beef & maw szechuan style spicy beef tendon spicy sour squid green bean jelly szechuan style woodear mushroom chengdu style szechuan pork stomach pork ribs pig ear pickled pig ear pig feet pork intestine pig kidney pork blood cake chicken feet chicken gizzard duck feet duck wings duck heads rabbit Maine lobster dungeness crab sole squid shrimp scallops lamb peapod leaves eggplant bok choy american broccoli chinese broccoli tong cai (a type of pickled vegetable) frog And then the tofus, the soups, the various “usual” dishes, the noodles, the hot pots, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/59 "2022-07-07T19:49:37Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > It was expected that everyone dressed for dinner. > > I don’t think this meant wearing a suit, for men. Doesn’t “dressing for dinner” imply white tie, and wearing a tuxedo would be unexpectedly informal? > > That was my impression from conversations between Jeeves and Wooster, anyway. Might not apply to restaurant dining. “Formal” is white tie and tails “Informal” is black tie and tuxedo. Note that in Britain, a tuxedo is called a “dinner jacket.” It was specifically created for dinner wear–tails being hard to manage if you were to sit down. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536/60 "2022-07-07T20:18:47Z")
It’s the NYTimes, I have a subscription, don’t know if they allow a few freebies. The article does give some credence to Brady being able to consume much larger than normal meals, perhaps able to match the legend to some degree. Assuming ordinary exaggeration in the story and using the size of the food orders instead of observations of how much he actually consumed this story could be essentially true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-were-you-meant-to-order-off-this-kind-of-19th-century-menu/967536.md?page=4)