# How/Why Did Mankind Learn To Eat Poisonous/Unpleasant -Tasting Foods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103 "2003-10-23T13:14:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/1 "2003-10-23T13:14:06Z")
I have always wondered how our ancestors learned to avoid poisoning themselves-we humans can eat a wide variety of foods, but no other animal will eat unpleasant-tasting foods. For example-my dog will not touch chili peppers…while I devour them! What about other foods…like manioc (cassava): there is one variety of theis root that is deadly poison-to make it edible, you have to grate it up, and soak in water several times (the soaking removes the poisonous prussic acid). Or, take mushrooms-many wild musrooms are delicious-but a fair number are also DEADLY to humans-how did primitive man learn which ones to avoid? Or, how about really unpleasant looking foods (like raw oysters)? (recall Samuel Johnson’s remark…“he was a brave man, who first ate an oyster!” As for peppers and other hot foods…wehumans seem to like these foods, even though they are unpleasant the first time…certainly my Springer Spaniel cannot comprehend why I likejalapeno peppers! ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/2 "2003-10-23T13:22:47Z")
a) dogs eat just about anything, but have a quick vomit reflex. b) rats also eat just about anything, but have good memories for food: if a particular food made the rat sick, the rat won’t eat it again. c) humans, too, eat just about anything, and exhibit a range of responsive behaviours between those of the dogs and rats. d) despite the instinctive responses, dogs, rats and humans all regularly die from food poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/3 "2003-10-23T13:25:51Z")
I’d imagine that when a caveman saw his cavepal vomit up some mushrooms and promptly die, he likely took it to heart. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/4 "2003-10-23T13:37:22Z")
That’s about the only explanation that seems to make sense to me, **lieu** , although I’ve been hoping a better answer would appear from some reliable source. Considering all the exotic foodstuffs, not to mention the elaborate preparation methods, it’s amazing to me how much variety there is to the stuff we ingest. Even the simplest cookbook’s recipes are amazing, I think. The quantities of thus and such involved in even simple dishes suggest that much trial and error (not to mention individual tastes) has gone on in that choice that finally got written down. Considering that babies will put anything in their mouths, it’s not hard to extrapolate to adults doing similar things. And once you get an eyeful of the stuff folks will eat on “reality TV” you can sense that not everything that looks inedible really is. So the experimental eater, coupled with a skeptical observer, is what probably led to the inclusion of all those things like truffles, blowfish, poke sallet, and all those chilies that melt glass. I’m just glad to have the experimenting done before I had to. I would probably starve if left to which wild berries and nuts to try. And I can’t see me eating grasshoppers and ants, even with a healthy coating of chocolate. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/5 "2003-10-23T14:08:33Z")
There is at least one Chapter in “Guns, Germs, and Steel” that tackles part of this question (the topic of the chapter is how man domesticated certain edible plants, including some which in their wild form taste crappy or are poisonous). Too bad I haven’t actually read the chapter yet. I think “Botany of Desire” my also help illuminate this problem. Wouldn’t it be grand if instead of leaving them on my shelf, I’d get around to reading these damn things so I could answer the question – instead of serve as a bibliography? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/6 "2003-10-23T14:08:47Z")
Most poisonous foods are more likely to make you violently ill than full-on dead, so there was some opportunity for education. Oral tradition accumulates, like the “primitive” people in today’s Amazon Basin with the advanced botanical knowledge, and the repertoire is refined over generations. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/7 "2003-10-23T14:39:00Z")
Recnt related thread: [Who Thought To Eat Green Apples?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=216050) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/8 "2003-10-23T15:02:39Z")
I liked a quote I saw years ago that said, “The first man to eat a chili pepper was very brave. The second man was even braver.” I’d like to know who figured out that soaking the inedible fruit of the olive tree in poisonous acid (lye) would make them edible and tasty. ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/9 "2003-10-23T18:13:52Z")
So we’re saying that our collective gustatory repertoire is based on the outcomes of a history of “Triple Dog Dares” with the results favoring the darer regardless of the outcome of the dare… Somehow, that seems to fit. I’ve always assumed some sort of simple natural selection: those that picked edible foods survived and passed the knowledge on to their offspring, and those who didn’t, well… didn’t. And Phase: I think that salt water (brine) will also cure olives, and some olive trees stand next to oceans and… well… sooner or later a hungry monkey is going to drag his knuckles down to the shore. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/10 "2003-10-23T20:40:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*a) dogs eat just about anything, but have a quick vomit reflex. > > b) rats also eat just about anything, but have good memories for food: if a particular food made the rat sick, the rat won’t eat it again.\*\* A minor nitpick, but rats are in fact rather cautious and picky eaters, very sensitive to toxins in their food. This sensitivity is necessary in part because they are unable to vomit. ([cite](http://www.hartz.com/smallanimals/experts/saHob/rats.asp)) ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/11 "2003-10-23T21:21:39Z")
I’ve always wondered this myself, especially for things like Fugu. For those of you who may not know, Fugu is a Japanese delicacy. It is a deadly poisonous blowfish that must be precisely prepared. Various bits must be removed with surgical skill. If all the deadly bits are not properly removed – you die. Fugu is extremely expensive and can only be prepared by licensed Fugu specialists. Even so, about a hundred Japanese die every year from eating improperly prepared Fugu. So how did this start? I can’t believe it was through trial and error. I mean, if your neighbor croaks from eating this butt-ugly fish, your natural reaction is not to say, “Hmm, let’s cut out _this_ bit and try again!” Your natural reaction is to leave the damn thing alone. ---
**Author:** ![Daikona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@Daikona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daikona)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/12 "2003-10-24T02:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phase42 \* > \*\*I’d like to know who figured out that soaking the inedible fruit of the olive tree in poisonous acid (lye) would make them edible and tasty. \*\* Slight nitpick. Lye is a strong base, not an acid. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/13 "2003-10-24T03:12:25Z")
This is just a WAG but isn’t it possible that people may have experimented on animals? For example, you could feed different parts of the fugu to dogs till you figured out which parts didn’t make them die. Or they may have experimented on captive enemies. Heck, they may have been trying to discover poisons rather than the other way around. What about grains? Who thought to grind up grass seed, mix it with water to make dough, then bake it? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/14 "2003-10-24T04:01:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by refusal \* > \*\*A minor nitpick, but rats are in fact rather cautious and picky eaters, very sensitive to toxins in their food. This sensitivity is necessary in part because they are unable to vomit. ([cite](http://www.hartz.com/smallanimals/experts/saHob/rats.asp)) \*\* Here’s how it works: > [@](#): > > [Rat Health Food](http://www.ratfanclub.org/diet.html) > Rats have a flap in their stomach that covers the esophagus and prevents both vomiting and burping. For this reason, wild rats are very hesitant to try a new food in case it’s poisonous. They nibble a little bit and wait; if they feel sick they associate it with the taste of the last new food they tried and avoid it in the future. This behavior is very adaptive for an animal that will **try to eat almost anything** , but who can’t vomit up bad food. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/15 "2003-10-24T04:28:01Z")
Note that many spices have anti-bacterial properties. This is thought to explain why tropical cultures are more likely to spice their food heavier - the practice tends to curb spoilage. [http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~burton/foodcourse/spices.html](http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~burton/foodcourse/spices.html) ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/16 "2003-10-24T04:32:22Z")
Yebbut we weren’t talking about spoilage, but foods that are poisonous from the get-go. No amount of spices will change that. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/17 "2003-10-24T04:40:34Z")
Well, the dose makes the poison… … and the OP mentioned Chili peppers. … and the analysis can be extended to explain why and how societies experiment with food. Here’s a nice excerpt from my link. > [@](#): > > How did spice use begin? We hypothesize that people may have begun cooking with spices whose flavors were initially appealing or that made them feel good (due to digestive or vermicidal effects, among other things). As a result, spice-using families may also have been less likely to suffer from foodborne illnesses or food poisoning than families that did not use spices, especially in hot climates. Furthermore, spice-using families probably would have been able to store foods longer before they spoiled, enabling them to tolerate prolonged periods of food scarcity. Observation and imitation of the food-preparation habits of these healthier families by neighbors could have spread spice use rapidly through a society. Families that used appropriate spices would presumably rear more healthy offspring, who would then learn spice-use traditions from their parents. It even seems possible that people who lived in areas where certain spices were traditionally used might have developed physiologically heightened abilities to taste those phytochemicals. The possible existence of such intergroup variations in taste receptor sensitivity to spices are just beginning to be explored (Drewnowski and Rock 1995). > Figure 10. ’ > > Eventually, however, new foodborne bacteria or fungi would immigrate, or indigenous microorganisms would evolve resistance to local spices. Individuals eating foods contaminated by these microbes would become ill. After humans, like many other creatures, eat something that makes them sick, they tend to avoid that taste (Milgram et al. 1977, Pelchat and Rozin 1982). The adaptive value of such “taste-aversion learning” is obvious (Rozin and Vollmecke 1986, Letarte et al. 1997). Adding a different spice to a food that caused such an illness might change its flavor enough to make it palatable again because it tastes like a new food. At the same time, if the spice were to kill the microorganism(s) that caused the illness in the first place, then the food would again be rendered safe for consumption. As a result of this sequence of events, food aversions would more often be associated with unspiced (and unsafe) foods, whereas food likings would be associated with spicy dishes, especially in climates where foods spoil rapidly. Over time, the number of spices per recipe would proliferate due to iteration of this process-that is, sequential changes in taste, associated with inhibiting different bacteria and fungi. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/18 "2003-10-24T05:55:45Z")
Humans have been around for quite a while. And even today plenty of humans can’t resist a dare. I’d say that it’s pretty much blind luck. Any number of circumstances- ranging from macho display to extreme hunger- can prompt a human to eat something that they know has bad effects. Eventually people will stumble upon what can and cannot be eaten, even down to the rediculous details. We’re talking about millions of years to figure it out. And the forces of custom, culture and folklore are pretty good at keeping that kind of knowledge in a population. Even in modern times we see this going on. A few hundred years ago, you’d be hard pressed to convince a European that the lead paint they put on their face was gonna kill them but a tomato woudn’t. It all go sorted out in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/19 "2003-10-24T06:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phase42 \* > \*\* > I’d like to know who figured out that soaking the inedible fruit of the olive tree in poisonous acid (lye) would make them edible and tasty. \*\* Good question. It’s already been pointed out that lye is a base, not an acid. That doesn’t get to the root of the question, though. One does not need lye to make olives edible. There is a process called “oil curing” that also produces an edible olive. You can read about it [here](http://www.hiddenvilla.org/Assets/csa/recipes/Oil%20Cured%20Greek%20Style%20Olives.htm). The first step in oil curing is to pack the olives in salt and let them shrivel over a period of about a month. I assume a lot of the bitterness is extracted as the olives dehydrate. My guess is that olives were originally used only for their oil, and that oil curing was discovered by someone fiddling with the process of oil extraction. The lye process probably came much later. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103/20 "2003-10-24T07:16:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > \*\* Even so, about a hundred Japanese die every year from eating improperly prepared Fugu. \*\* Wrong. Number of fugu-related deaths, in Japan, between 1997 and 2001: 1997: 6 1998: 4 1999: 2 2000: 0 2001: 3 It should also be noted that the majority of fugu poisoning cases involves fish that was prepared at home, supposedly by unlicensed people. That being said, I have nothing to add in regards to the OP. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-why-did-mankind-learn-to-eat-poisonous-unpleasant-tasting-foods/209103.md?page=2)