# How wide discussed is "fan death" as a myth in South Korea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740 "2012-05-22T17:49:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![furdmort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@furdmort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furdmort)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/81 "2012-05-25T10:41:31Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > If it’s a myth, it isn’t limited to Korea. According to the US EPA an electric fan in a hot unventilated space really can be dangerous. Why this would be more widely known or problematic in Korea than anywhere else is a mystery, but it does seem to be a genuine hazard everywhere. > > The EPA includes the following warning in a [guide to city managers](http://www.epa.gov/hiri/about/pdf/EHEguide_final.pdf) for handling ‘extreme heat events’. Thank you for that quote. It backs up what I said long ago when this first cropped up. High temperatures, high humidity, and a fan for cooling can be a bad combination. Evaporation can only cool so much, and the higher the humidity is, the less effective that cooling becomes. At some point, it stops being cooling and starts being a low temperature convection oven - essentially “baking” you by dumping even more heat into your body, albeit at a very low rate. Dehydration and heat stroke can result, possibly leading to death. I remember reading newspaper articles in the 1970’s during heat waves that included mention of people killed by heat stroke from fans. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/82 "2012-05-25T11:05:01Z")
> [@furdmort](#): > > High temperatures, high humidity, and a fan for cooling can be a bad combination. Evaporation can only cool so much, and the higher the humidity is, the less effective that cooling becomes. At some point, it stops being cooling and starts being a low temperature convection oven - essentially “baking” you by dumping even more heat into your body, albeit at a very low rate. High temperature and high humidity environments can indeed potentially be fatal. But why would a fan make such environments more dangerous? I can only see it acting like a convection oven if the temperature is greater than human body temperature, and the humidity is higher than the air immediately around a normally sweating person. In which case you’d be screwed anyway, even if the air was perfectly still. Also, these kinds of conditions are far less likely at night. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/83 "2012-05-25T11:32:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > High temperature and high humidity environment can indeed potentially be fatal. > > But why would a fan make such environments more dangerous? > I can only see it acting like a convection oven if the temperature is greater than human body temperature, and the humidity is higher than the air immediately around a normally sweating person. In which case you’d be screwed anyway, even if the air was perfectly still. > > Also, these kinds of conditions are far less likely at night. I think the difference is that hot air blowing directly at you continuously evaporates sweat but immediately replaces the cooler air from that evaporation with hot air again. The constant replacement of the cool air around you causes faster dehydration and a faster temperature increase than would be the case without the fan. The motor of the fan makes at least some heat too, so in a small enough room that alone would make a bad situation worse with no outside air exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/84 "2012-05-25T12:30:58Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I think the difference is that hot air blowing directly at you continuously evaporates sweat but immediately replaces the cooler air from that evaporation with hot air again. The constant replacement of the cool air around you causes faster dehydration and a faster temperature increase than would be the case without the fan. I…think that makes sense. The only issue I have is that I don’t think evaporation directly cools the air around you – it cools the skin, which may then in turn cause the air around you to cool. When I’m running the still and moving air simulations in my brain, it’s getting complex, but I assume that if the FDA are saying it can be dangerous they’ve done the math / gathered empirical data. ---
**Author:** ![furdmort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@furdmort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furdmort)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/85 "2012-05-25T12:37:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > High temperature and high humidity environments can indeed potentially be fatal. > > But why would a fan make such environments more dangerous? > I can only see it acting like a convection oven if the temperature is greater than human body temperature, and the humidity is higher than the air immediately around a normally sweating person. In which case you’d be screwed anyway, even if the air was perfectly still. > > Also, these kinds of conditions are far less likely at night. Then I’d say you’ve never been exposed to a heat wave with high humidity and high temps, with an inversion layer to keep the nights hot. Nothing much sucks worse than a long, hot, muggy day followed by a long, hot, muggy night. ---
**Author:** ![furdmort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@furdmort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furdmort)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/86 "2012-05-25T12:44:28Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I…think that makes sense. > The only issue I have is that I don’t think evaporation directly cools the air around you – it cools the skin, which may then in turn cause the air around you to cool. > > When I’m running the still and moving air simulations in my brain, it’s getting complex, but I assume that if the FDA are saying it can be dangerous they’ve done the math / gathered empirical data. What happens is that in the conditions we are talking about, sweating doesn’t provide really any cooling at all. You body is basically absorbing heat from the air, thereby cooling the air a bit. Now start blowing the air around, and your body will have more heat to absorb - bake-o-rama. In those conditions, you will get heat stroke anyway. The fan makes it happen enough faster that you might not realize you are in trouble (especially if you are sleeping.) Factor in that people assume the fan is cooling the air and will stick around in the heat longer, and you’ve got the cause of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/87 "2012-05-25T13:19:10Z")
> [@furdmort](#): > > What happens is that in the conditions we are talking about, sweating doesn’t provide really any cooling at all. You body is basically absorbing heat from the air, thereby cooling the air a bit. I think you have some misconceptions. You first describe a situation where sweating doesn’t provide any cooling – this implies an extremely high humidity. You then go on to add that the body is a net heat sink in this situation – meaning, indirectly, that the ambient temperature is hotter than human internal body temperature. Well, the situation you describe is fatal to humans. Still air, moving air, humans can’t survive prolonged exposure to a wet-bulb temperature greater than body temperature. It’s a red-herring to talk about fans in such an extreme situation. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/88 "2012-05-25T16:28:36Z")
I wonder what believers in fan death would make of studies that show that fans in babies’ rooms [reduce the risk of SIDS by more than 70%.](http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081006/sleeping-with-fan-may-lower-sids-risk) Is fan death only an adult problem? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/89 "2012-05-25T18:41:39Z")
> [@furdmort](#): > > Then I’d say you’ve never been exposed to a heat wave with high humidity and high temps, with an inversion layer to keep the nights hot. Nothing much sucks worse than a long, hot, muggy day followed by a long, hot, muggy night. As someone who has experienced those conditions, I’ll just say that, in those circumstances, it is obvious that a fan blowing more hot air on you is worse than having no fan at all. Your body just knows, almost instantly. When I’ve been in those circumstances, it seems like it’s almost instinctual to seek out any available body of water and immerse yourself in it. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/90 "2012-05-25T20:21:06Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > I wonder what believers in fan death would make of studies that show that fans in babies’ rooms [reduce the risk of SIDS by more than 70%.](http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081006/sleeping-with-fan-may-lower-sids-risk) Is fan death only an adult problem? Remember they’re talking about a room over 99F with no outside ventilation. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/91 "2012-05-25T20:36:21Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think you have some misconceptions. > > You first describe a situation where sweating doesn’t provide any cooling – this implies an extremely high humidity. You then go on to add that the body is a net heat sink in this situation – meaning, indirectly, that the ambient temperature is hotter than human internal body temperature. > > Well, the situation you describe is fatal to humans. > Still air, moving air, humans can’t survive prolonged exposure to a wet-bulb temperature greater than body temperature. > > It’s a red-herring to talk about fans in such an extreme situation. I think the message (at least from the EPA) is more like ‘open up a window or get out of the house. Don’t just turn on a fan and go to sleep thinking it is going to keep you cooler than room temperature’. If someone were awake in these circumstances they could keep guzzling water and sweating but asleep it could make the situation more dangerous than it already is. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/92 "2012-05-25T20:42:08Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I think the message (at least from the EPA) is more like ‘open up a window or get out of the house. Don’t just turn on a fan and go to sleep thinking it is going to keep you cooler than room temperature’. If someone were awake in these circumstances they could keep guzzling water and sweating but asleep it could make the situation more dangerous than it already is. That’s very true. Also, one thing I forgot is that our thermoregulation doesn’t work so well while we are asleep. So even if it’s a little cooler at night than during the day, it may still be a high risk period for heat stroke (although experience suggests that if you get very hot or cold while asleep you tend to wake up). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/93 "2013-09-15T12:37:23Z")
**BUMP** Bumping because of something I read. Ahem, let me remind you that this is about how “widely discussed” fan death _as a myth_ is in S. Korea, not the phenomenon of fan death. [Ken Jennings had an article about it that indicates the younger generation is realizing that is is baloney. He ends this article with the following, which indicates that the internet is destroying the myth gradually.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/foreigners/2013/01/fan_death_korean_moms_think_that_your_electric_fan_will_kill_you.single.html) > [@](#): > > But not impossible! A recent email survey of contacts in Korea suggests to me that, among the younger generation anyway, the fan-death consensus has recently gone from “Of course!” to “Can you believe my parents used to tell us that?” A decade of Internet skepticism seems to have accomplished what the preceding 75 years could not: convinced a nation that Korean fan death is probably hot air. I’d like to believe Cecil is playing a role in this new development. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/94 "2013-09-15T13:28:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Also, is “fan death” a good example of a genuine meme, since it is spread through the culture and we don’t know the exact origin of it? It is very much a meme–a parcel of cultural information, transmissible from one person to another. That it is widespread and persistent in Korea confirms that it is a _successful_ meme, well-adapted to that environment. The vast majority of memes have unknown origins. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/95 "2013-09-15T19:29:10Z")
The thing that surprises me about this is that electric fans have been around for less than a century. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/96 "2013-09-15T21:59:04Z")
A previous thread on the topic: [Comment on: Will sleeping in a closed room with an electric fan cause death? - Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694660) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/97 "2013-09-16T11:08:40Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The thing that surprises me about this is that electric fans have been around for less than a century. Yes, I was just thinking that my Grandparents and born-in-Korea mother never mentioned it. Even when we were sleeping with fans. We Always slept with the fans on in Lae, PNG. But the windows were open too. My wife would never sleep with a fan (or air-conditioner) blowing on her. She doesn’t think she is going to die, just that she will wish she had. Of course, trying to sleep with a belief system like that is never going to work, so I’ve never been able to demonstrate to her how much I LOVE sleeping with a fan on. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/98 "2013-09-17T02:30:24Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A previous thread on the topic: [Comment on: Will sleeping in a closed room with an electric fan cause death? - Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694660) How is that a previous one? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/99 "2013-09-17T05:36:38Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s not entirely a Korean thing. I have heard a few times that sleeping with a fan is “bad for you.” It may have even come from my mother, who last time I checked is not Korean. An RPN from Haiti told me it was a common cause of death in Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740/100 "2013-09-17T15:32:09Z")
Interesting thread, too bad I missed it the first go around. > [@hogarth](#): > > Likewise, that’s also believed in China. Or at least by my wife. Taiwan is very much into cold not being good for people. My wife sort of freaks out when I give our small! kids ice! I’ve had people here tell me to not drink too much ice water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-wide-discussed-is-fan-death-as-a-myth-in-south-korea/622740.md?page=6)