# How will Bill Clinton rescue his reputation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074 "2004-06-07T06:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/41 "2004-06-08T04:31:42Z")
Meh. A hastily-passed constitutional amendment and a shakeup at the Democractic Convention and good ol’ Bill would easily be the Dem nominee in 2004. He’d probably win, too. His reputation is that he’s a horndog, but it turned out that being a horndog does not disqualify you from being an effective and popular president. Some future descendent of Robert Graves will write “I, Clinton” and Bill will be portrayed as a well-meaning but flawed caretaker leader surrounded by people of varying degrees of nastiness. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/42 "2004-06-08T04:32:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Nobody really cared about the blow job. Even Clinton haters didn’t care about the blow job. The blow job was just an excuse to GET CLINTON, by any possible means. Intelligent people understand that and the perspective of time will make it even more clear. You’re right. Nobody cared about the blowjob. What they cared about was the perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/43 "2004-06-08T04:39:52Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Of course, for you to say that requires you to ignore the realpolitik of the situation. The Soviet Union was in Afghanistan, and it was US policy to resist any Soviet expansion into other spheres of influence. We backed Saddam Hussein because he was making war with Iraq, and given the hostage situation and the whole “Death To America” stuff that was going on there, it was determined that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Got what you’re saying, but this “enemy of my enemy is my friend” philosophy has led to so many problems. For example, the US didn’t just support the mujahideen in the 80s, but they supported Islamism for a few decades because they wanted to counter the popularity of Arab nationalism, and ignored its inherent tendency to become an anti-US, anti-Israel force. We all know how well that one turned out - with the growth of Islamist groups like al Qaeda. “It seemed like a good idea at the time” is a poor defence of any plan, but someone really ought to have figured out that giving money and guns to religious fanatics (Islamists in general, the mujahideen in Afghanistan) and secular nutjobs (Saddam and many other dictators) was doomed to failure from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/44 "2004-06-08T04:43:50Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > You’re right. Nobody cared about the blowjob. What they cared about was the perjury. Oh, come on. The general public doesn’t care too much about lies in general - the element of sex was essential to ‘spice up’ the story and get people paying attention. No hummer, no story. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/45 "2004-06-08T04:49:47Z")
Hey any president that can play off a line like “It’s OK if _you_ blow me but I can’t do you because THAT would be cheating.” and then actrually have her swallow that crap: is a freaking genius in my book. (pun intended) I mean come on if he can pull a stunt like that off, isn’t this the guy we want negotiating our international affairs? Best damn president ever! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/46 "2004-06-08T04:51:12Z")
As it turns out, the Taliban was far more dangerous to the US than the largely imaginary threat of the Soviet Empire. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > You’re right. Nobody cared about the blowjob. What they cared about was the perjury. Cite for when Clinton was convicted of perjury? Not that I believe conservatives actually cared. They didn’t care about Ollie North’s perjury about far more significant events than a blow job, so I find their outrage rather disingenuous when it comes to some rather justified dissembling about an immaterial question in a deposition for a politically motivated civil lawsuit which was subsequently thrown out for lack of merit. Conservatives just wanted to GET CLINTON and the PJ deposition was an excuse, nothing more. I don’t believe a single American really, sincerely gave a shit that he dissembled about a blow job. A lie is only as important about what’s being lied about anyway. To quote Chris Rock, “He lied about a blow job so his wife wouldn’t find out. Is that against the law?” I’m more concerned about guys who lie about reasons to start wars. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/47 "2004-06-08T04:53:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > …I’m more concerned about guys who lie about reasons to start wars. Drop it already. LBJ has been out of office for decades; Give the man some peace. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/48 "2004-06-08T04:57:19Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Cite for when Clinton was convicted of perjury? Cite for when OJ was convicted of murder? Just because there was no conviction doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Apparently the Bar Association thought it happened because they tossed him. Send it to a real criminal trial and he eats it, and you know it. Congress isn’t much of a jury. > [@](#): > > I’m more concerned about guys who lie about reasons to start wars. And that has to do with Clinton…how? Oh, I get it. By diverting the subject with some witty line you don’t have to confront the fact that your boy perjured himself. How dishonest can you be? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/49 "2004-06-08T04:59:49Z")
BTW, I was 11 when Ollie North was testifying, I didn’t really even know what was happening. In retrospect the whole Iran-Contra scandal was sleaze on par with Watergate. How’s that for honesty? Too bad you could never be that honest about your boy. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/50 "2004-06-08T05:11:57Z")
I saw Clinton talking about his book on booknotes this weekend. He raised himself in my estimation quite a bit (he always could tell a good story). He told a particular anicdote which I think he said was not in the book. He said he talked to Bob Dole after the 1996 elections. He asked Mr. Dole “You have been in Washington longer than I have, what do you think. Is politics more or less honest than it has been in the past?” Dole’s response was that is was no contest. Current politics are much more honest. Clinton then asked if he thought the publics perception was that politics were more or less honest. Dole again responded that it was no contest. The public thinks that politics are much less honest. Clinton then went on to say that it is not necessary to demonize political opponents. He said this in a way which indicated that while he may oppose Bush’s policies, it does not mean that he thinks Bush is stupid or evil. I’m not doing his remarks justice. But my only point is that I think Clinton went up quite a bit in my estimation. Perhaps like Carter, he will turn out to be an excellent ex president. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/51 "2004-06-08T05:15:41Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > BTW, I was 11 when Ollie North was testifying, I didn’t really even know what was happening. In retrospect the whole Iran-Contra scandal was sleaze on par with Watergate. How’s that for honesty? > > Too bad you could never be that honest about your boy. I’ve never thought you were dishonest, Airman\*\*. I actually think you’re one of the most intellectually honest posters on this board. I’m not in denial about Clinton. I think he lied about the blow job. I just don’t _care_ that he lied about a blow job. I think it was an extremely trivial offense to impeach the guy over. BTW, don’t be so sure that he would have been convicted in a criminal trial. A perjury conviction requires that the lie be about a _material matter_ in the case. Depositions are basically fishing expeditions. Attorneys ask a lot of questions which have little or no relevance to the case. It would be hard to argue that Clinton getting a consensual blow job had any materiality as to whether he sexually harassed Paula Jones years before. I don’t think it would have been possible to prove materiality. I’m not even sure that they could prove a deliberate lie. They would have to prove that Clinton _intended_ to be deceptive, and since the words “oral sex” had been specifically crossed off of the definition that Clinton was given for “sex” he probably could have argued that he thought it didn’t count. That would still be bullshit, of course, but we’re talking about Bill Clinton in front of an Arkansas jury. They would have been putty in his hands. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/52 "2004-06-08T07:13:58Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Pay close attention to those pardons given after he lost his reelection bid. I didn’t say after he lost reelection, I said he stayed up all night pardoning criminals on his last night in office when it would be too late for anyone to say or do anything about it (or to create consequences as a result of it), which he did. At least Bush had the balls to do it before sneaking out the door the next morning. And I don’t see any FBI top ten fugitives on this list, do I? > [@Reeder](#): > > Then shut your mouth. Sorry, I really don’t foresee this as an option. (Too bad this was moved from the pit so I can’t give this silly and arrogant comment the response it, and you, are deserving of.) But then coming from you, at least I know I’m still on the right track. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/53 "2004-06-08T12:31:09Z")
Come on, you guys, this is a waste of time. Everybody knows he was a bumbling incompetent who lied about everything under the sun. He was President during the greatest threat to our Constitution for the last forty years. Everything that people attribute to him - the economic boom, the job growth, our successes abroad - were all inevitable events that he did nothing whatever to bring about, and which would definitely have happened all the same no matter what he did. The guy was an irrelevance, everybody knows that. Just lucky. And his wife? What a fucking bitch she was. Oh wait - we were talking about **Clinton** , not **Reagan**. Well, then, never mind. The economic boom - all him. Jobs? He created every one. The scandals? All because his opponents were out to get him. All completely unfair. His wife? A saint. I think I understand now. Everything _bad_ in the 80s - Reagan’s fault. Everything _good_ that happened in the 80s - nothing to do with Reagan. All historically inevitable. Everything _good_ that happened in the 90s - Clinton’s responsiblity entirely. Everything _bad_? All the Republicans’ fault. Lying under oath, the pardons, Travelgate, Filegate, Nannygate, Juanita Broadderick, Kathleen Wylie, Paula Jones - all the fault of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy[sup]TM[/sup]. I think I got it now. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/54 "2004-06-08T13:16:33Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I didn’t say after he lost reelection, I said he stayed up all night pardoning criminals on his last night in office when it would be too late for anyone to say or do anything about it (or to create consequences as a result of it), which he did. At least Bush had the balls to do it before sneaking out the door the next morning. And I don’t see any FBI top ten fugitives on this list, do I? Bush pardoned everyone who could finger him in Iran-Contra and he did it like a coward in the night. There was nothing “ballsy” about it. He pardoned his own criminal conspirators and he did it to save his own ass. At least Clinton had the integrity simply to sell the pardons for money in a perfectly honorable way. He wasn’t trying to bury acts of treason at the highest levels of government, nor was he trying to keep himself out of prison. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/55 "2004-06-08T13:31:04Z")
There are many, apparently including friend **Shodan** , for whom “Clinton was preternaturally evil” is not and never will be a conclusion, but a _premise_. All that remains is to find, or, if necessary, manufacture, the “facts” to support it, and to denigrate any revelation of their bullshittery. The list Shodan has thoughtfully provided has, as he well knows, been thoroughly debunked. But that also requires dismissing any study of the facts alleged, and divorcing any consideration of them, from any context, either personal or historical, or any consideration that he might not have been uniquely evil. There’s no need, for them - they already \*know \* the answer, right? To maintain that dudgeon requires a divorce from reality. He can never rescue his reputation from them, but, fortunately, he doesn’t have to. They were always a minority, one that history is well on its way to dismissing as motivated not by morality but by personal spite in a political power play. No, he shouldn’t have given a false or misleading answer, but _he should never have been asked the question_. That’s what the future students will be asking - “What the hell were those people thinking?” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/56 "2004-06-08T14:17:37Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I certainly didn’t care about a blow job in the Oval Office. I care that he lied under oath to save his own ass. Yet, strangely, you apparently don’t give a whiff about the partisan witch-hunt that led to the trumped-up charges to begin with. Anyone who gets indignant about Clinton’s perjury while ignoring the path to his testimony (such as the illegal collusion between Ken Starr’s “independent” prosecution and Paula Jones’ lawyers) is just grasping for partisan straws to justify their Clinton-bashing. > [@treis](#): > > On the other hand it can be said that Clinton did not combat terrorism effectively and his presidency presided over multiple terrorist attacks. Our response was limited to a few cruise missles. [More](http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/10/30/135644/95) [Republican](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm) [propaganda,](http://www.makethemaccountable.com/myth/ClintonAndTerrorism.htm) I’m afraid. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > > > Yeah, Clinton never should have buddied up to Osama bin Laden and the Mujadin (aka the Taliban) and Saddam Hussein…wait. that was REAGAN. > > Of course, for you to say that requires you to ignore the realpolitik of the situation. Nothing’s being ignored; some of us have simply realized that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a STUPID idea for foreign policy. How many times has that ended up biting us in the ass? > [@SHAKES](#): > > Hey any president that can play off a line like “It’s OK if you blow me but I can’t do you because THAT would be cheating.” and then actrually have her swallow that crap: is a freaking genius in my book. (pun intended) To be fair, Clinton wasn’t the first to use _that_ scheme – for example, during his own extramarital affair, Newt Gingrich (IIRC) insisted on sticking to only blowjobs so he could “honestly” tell everyone he wasn’t “having sex” with another woman. > [@Shodan](#): > > Everybody knows he was a bumbling incompetent who lied about everything under the sun. He was President during the greatest threat to our Constitution for the last forty years. Oh, we’re talking about George W. Bush now? > [@Shodan](#): > > Everything good that happened in the 90s - Clinton’s responsiblity entirely. Everything bad? All the Republicans’ fault. Lying under oath, the pardons, Travelgate, Filegate, Nannygate, Juanita Broadderick, Kathleen Wylie, Paula Jones - all the fault of the Vast Right-Wing ConspiracyTM. And thank you, **Shodan,** of reminding us of what are the official GOP Talking Points Bullstuff™ on this issue. I’ll just simply remind you that despite all the _allegations_ against the Clintons, even Ken Starr ultimately concluded that no charges of wrongdoing were ever **proven** against Bill & Hillary. As for the “vast right-wing conspiracy,” _someone_ was paying folks like [David Brock](http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/03/David_Brock_031802.html) to lie about the foes of the GOP. You can even find their names [here,](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312273193/qid=1086704203/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-0112802-5511071?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) though I admit that will require reading a book from someone other than Rush or Ann. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/57 "2004-06-08T15:04:36Z")
\*\* rjung \*\* I find it deeply insulting that you think I have been merely taken in by Republican propaganda. Those sites say exactly what I believe Clinton did. He lobbed a few missles once tried to pass some laws and increased the FBIs funding. He did very little to actually attacked Al Qaeda’s base in Afghanistan and in my opinion means that he could have done more. > [@](#): > > Yet, strangely, you apparently don’t give a whiff about the partisan witch-hunt that led to the trumped-up charges to begin with. Bullshit I never said anything about what I thought about the investigation. The man lied in front of the American people and lied under oath to save himself. I also care that he pardoned people that refused to testify against him. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/58 "2004-06-08T16:05:28Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Hey any president that can play off a line like “It’s OK if _you_ blow me but I can’t do you because THAT would be cheating.” and then actrually have her swallow that crap: is a freaking genius in my book. (pun intended) Well, she didn’t swallow _all_ of it; there was the unpleasant matter of the blue dress. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/59 "2004-06-08T17:29:51Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Oh, we’re talking about George W. Bush now? No, either Clinton or Reagan, just as you prefer. Just let us know which you like, and we can decide whether or not the President is responsible for the performance of the economy during his Presidency, or not. But you can’t have it both ways. > [@rjung](#): > > And thank you, **Shodan,** of reminding us of what are the official GOP Talking Points Bullstuff™ on this issue. No, it was more on the lines of the Official Revisionist History of the SDMB Fantasy Politics League. > [@rjung](#): > > I’ll just simply remind you that despite all the _allegations_ against the Clintons, even Ken Starr ultimately concluded that no charges of wrongdoing were ever **proven** against Bill & Hillary. So you are saying that the judge on Clinton’s civil trial never found that Clinton had intentionally made false and misleading statements under oath? Are you saying that Clinton was never disbarred? Are you claiming that Clinton disputed the findings of the court in both these instances? Or are you claiming that Starr did not tell the House Judiciary Committee that > [@](#): > > [“On at least six different occasions… the President chose deception.”](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/11/19/impeachment/) Are you claiming that Starr did not tell the Committee that “the evidence suggests Clinton lied under oath, obstructed justice, and attempted to thwart not just Paula Jones’s sexual harassment lawsuit but Starr’s grand jury probe as well”. Are these the facts you want to “remind” us of? Or by “remind” do you mean “I sure wish some of this were true - unfortunately it is the purest bullshit”. I assume your recommendation on how Clinton can rescue his reputation is that his supporters do exactly what lost him his rep in the first place - By telling a whole string of big, fat, demonstrable lies. Good luck with that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074/60 "2004-06-08T17:44:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Everybody knows he was a bumbling incompetent who lied about everything under the sun. > [@Shodan](#): > > Or are you claiming that Starr did not tell the House Judiciary Committee that “On at least six different occasions… the President chose deception.” Wow, revisionist history from **Shodan** in under eight hours! I never said Clinton _never_ lied; hell, I don’t believe that George Washington never lied, cherry tree or no cherry tree. But if you’re looking for Presidential-caliber lying, you should set your sights on [the guy currently in the White House.](http://www.bushlies.com) > [@Shodan](#): > > Are these the facts you want to “remind” us of? No, I meant the fact that the “independent” prosecutor Ken Starr was determined to catch Clinton on _anything,_ come hell or high water, and ultimately resorted to [illegal collusions](http://www.salon.com/news/1998/10/26news.html) to set a perjury trap for the President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-bill-clinton-rescue-his-reputation/249074.md?page=4)