# How will quitting as governor affect Palin's chances. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051 "2011-06-02T05:13:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/121 "2011-06-10T22:13:59Z")
Look, the fucking guy won’t even as much as acknowledge he owes an apology if proven wrong, much less offer to accept any sort of self-punishment, if it turns out that he’s totally full of shit, so what does that tell you about his sincerity in defending Palin here? It tells me that he’s deliberately, maliciously yanking people’s chains in the hope of riling people up. There’s got to be a term for doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/122 "2011-06-10T23:01:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If she did, it’s not apparent from the exchange that **Knorf** posted. It that’s what you’re talking about, all she did was say that Alaska had trade agreements with Russia. I don’t see anything there that implies she personally was involved. Here’s the exchange in question. "COURIC: Have you ever been involved with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians? PALIN: We have trade missions back and forth. We-- we do-- " First of all, notice the pronoun, “we.” The [definition](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/we) of we is “I and the rest of the group that includes me.” Notice also that she was responding to a question, “Have you ever been involved with any negotiations…?” [“You”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/you) referred to Palin herself. The question was what experience did Palin herself personally have. Palin responded with “we,” which in context and _by definition_ means Palin herself alongside others. The only reasonable interpretation was that she was falsely trying to connect herself to trade negotiations involving Russia. I understand that Palin’s garbled speech is sometimes very difficult to parse. I hope my links to definitions for “we” and “you” helps you understand what Palin said. Ok. Let’s move on. > [@](#): > > Unless you can show me just where in those couple of lines “I have foreign policy experience because I can see Russia from Alaska”, then no, I’m not wrong. Here’s the excerpted exchange: “GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you? PALIN: They’re our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.” So, no, the quote you’re looking for verbatim is not there. But she was being asked about her “insight into Russian actions,” which can be construed as a category that is at least clearly a subcategory of “foreign policy experience.” Her only answer to support herself was indeed that you can see Russian from Alaska. “I have foreign policy experience because I can see Russia from Alaska” is absolutely a justifiable [paraphrase](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paraphrase) of what she said. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/123 "2011-06-10T23:37:48Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > First of all, notice the pronoun, “we.” The definition of we is “I and the rest of the group that includes me.” Notice also that she was responding to a question, “Have you ever been involved with any negotiations…?” “You” referred to Palin herself. The question was what experience did Palin herself personally have. Palin responded with “we,” which in context and by definition means Palin herself alongside others. The only reasonable interpretation was that she was falsely trying to connect herself to trade negotiations involving Russia. Oh, give me a break. If in an interview setting Obama were to say “we” got bin Laden, it would be idiocy to think he personally was member of the group that got bin Laden. Leaders use “we” all the time to talk about things that happened in their state, legislative body, or country under their watch. Plus, as a member of Alaska’s population her use of the term is also perfectly legitimate. You’re grasping at straws now. > [@Knorf](#): > > So, no, the quote you’re looking for verbatim is not there. So in other words she didn’t say it. Thank you. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/124 "2011-06-11T00:35:59Z")
Obama personally directed the planning and execution of the bin Laden hit. He was involved and giving orders every step of the way from the hunt, to the operation, to the burial at sea. It is fair for him to say “we.” Palin had no involvement at any level or in any capacity with regards to treaties with Russia. ---
**Author:** ![sweet\_chemist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@sweet\_chemist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweet_chemist)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/125 "2011-06-11T01:48:15Z")
**SA** keep up the good work! I haven’t laughed so much in a thread for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/126 "2011-06-11T02:27:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Obama personally directed the planning and execution of the bin Laden hit. He was involved and giving orders every step of the way from the hunt, to the operation, to the burial at sea. It is fair for him to say “we.” I doubt very seriously that Obama “directed” the assault. Most likely his military advisors gave him and assortment of options and things to consider in choosing one, and he then did that. Which is all well and good, but I doubt that any civilian - or even most military personnel - would be in any sort of a position to “plan and direct” that sort of operation. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Palin had no involvement at any level or in any capacity with regards to treaties with Russia. So if I’m proud of my state’s college football them and we win the national title and I brag that “we” kicked the other teams ass and won the championship, you and your cohort here on the board would interpret that as my claiming to have played in the game myself? > [@sweet chemist](#): > > SA keep up the good work! I haven’t laughed so much in a thread for a long time. Glad to hear some good is resulting from the silly direction this thread has taken. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/127 "2011-06-11T02:31:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I doubt very seriously that Obama “directed” the assault. You are incorrect. He called the meetings, made the decisions and gave the orders. It was his operation. He was the boss > [@](#): > > So if I’m proud of my state’s college football them and we win the national title and I brag that “we” kicked the other teams ass and won the championship, you and your cohort here on the board would interpret that as my claiming to have played in the game myself? She was asked specifically if SHE had been involved in any negotiations with Russia. Her answer, to continue with your own analogy, was equivalent to being asked, “did you play college football,” and getting the answer, “we won the Rose Bowl.” ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/128 "2011-06-11T03:09:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, give me a break. If in an interview setting Obama were to say “we” got bin Laden, it would be idiocy to think he personally was member of the group that got bin Laden. Leaders use “we” all the time to talk about things that happened in their state, legislative body, or country under their watch. Plus, as a member of Alaska’s population her use of the term is also perfectly legitimate. You’re grasping at straws now. If someone asks “YOU” whether you did something, and you answer that question with “WE,” the plain, obvious implication is that YOU were involved. > [@](#): > > So in other words she didn’t say it. Thank you. End of story. Sometime you really should learn about the word “paraphrase.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/129 "2011-06-11T03:27:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You are incorrect. He called the meetings, made the decisions and gave the orders. It was his operation. He was the boss > > She was asked specifically if SHE had been involved in any negotiations with Russia. Her answer, to continue with your own analogy, was equivalent to being asked, “did you play college football,” and getting the answer, “we won the Rose Bowl.” It sounds to me, especially given **d8uv’s** description of Palin’s first years in office, that she may have been involved at least to some degree in whatever agreements had been reached between Alaska and Russia, even if that degree only mean signing off on them. I don’t know. It is clear that she was trying to bluff her way along by giving nonanswers and speaking to things not part of the question. These days, unfortunately, every politician does that. Politicians like Hillary Clinton are notorious for it. But she didn’t have the polish to pull it off, as I said before upthread. > [@Knorf](#): > > Sometime you really should learn about the word “paraphrase.” It isn’t a paraphrase; it’s an outright lie. And thanks to people like you and **Joebuck20** , this board is full of people who believe it. ---
**Author:** ![sweet\_chemist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@sweet\_chemist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweet_chemist)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/130 "2011-06-11T03:36:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Glad to hear some good is resulting from the silly direction this thread has taken. I know. I would have thought you would put down the shovel and stop digging, but you keep on going. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/131 "2011-06-11T03:42:08Z")
If you’ll notice, around 99% of my posts are responses to things other posters have said to me. I’d be able to post a great deal less if only other posters would stop saying things to me that are wrong. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/132 "2011-06-11T03:53:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It isn’t a paraphrase; it’s an outright lie. And thanks to people like you and **Joebuck20** , this board is full of people who believe it. Yep. This is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/133 "2011-06-11T12:28:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Glad to hear some good is resulting from the silly direction this thread has taken. To be fair, it’s also provided by illustration a pretty good answer to the OP: Anyone still supporting Sarah Palin has gone through so many contortions to stay in that position that her quitting won’t make a difference. (Note to **SA** : Just to save wear and tear on the hamsters, can we take as a given your response of “But I told you, I’m _ **not** _ a Palin supporter. I’m just a brave fighter for truth, justice and the American way. Which is pretty bloody difficult when you lesser mortals keep insisting that Palin answering a question about a foreign policy issue by citing Alaska’s proximity to Russia, then, when asked about it point blank by a different reporter, reaffirming her answer somehow constitutes her claiming that Alaska’s proximity to Russia gave her foreign policy experience.”) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/134 "2011-06-11T19:51:42Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Oh, fuck me. This is nothing more than moving the goal posts. I think it’s more like “Wherever the goal posts happen to be, Mooselini has already passed them”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/135 "2011-06-12T01:42:19Z")
> [@d8uv](#): > > A life-long Alaskan here, and I have a story for you. > > Back in 2005, politics up here were a goddamned mess. The sitting governor, Frank Murkowski was widely hated for being a corrupt scumbag. I mean, his first act as governor was to give his Senate seat _to his daughter_. He tried to sign deals with corporations without legislative approval. Bought a personal jet, with state money, to go on personal vacations, also with state money. > > So, when it came time for reelection, in the Republican primary, the choice was between corrupt assholes or vote Democrat. We may be conservative, but we aren’t masochists. We didn’t really want to vote Democrat but the Republicans really left us with no choice. > > Then, out of nowhere, the former mayor of Wasilla decided to step into the race. Palin was a young idealist, running a grass-roots campaign, all about transparency and ethics. Getting the economy back on track by cleaning up the horribly filthy politics that caused the financials to get so bad in the first place. It was exactly what Alaska needed. Alaska wanted a Republican, but one who was sane. Palin seemed to fit the bill exactly. > > However, there’s a slight snag. You see, Palin came in from absolutely nowhere. She had no real budget, and came in from outside the Political System. Nobody votes for nobodies, and it’s not like she could really campaign against the Giant Pile of Money that was Murkowski. > > It turns out, all of that didn’t matter. The fact that she came in from outside was more of a boon than anything else, as it led to a fresh perspective on how to fix the mess Murkowski made. And although she was far over-spent, her message resonated so clearly with Alaskans, that she _trounced_ the other republicans. Palin took half of the votes in a three-way race. Her popularity transcended that common wisdom, and that popularity led her to a somewhat easy win to the Governorship. > > Now, what doesn’t really get told, was how Palin _followed through_ with her promise. She pushed for an ethics reform bill. She spent 80% less on gubernatorial expenses than Murkowski. She even turned down a pay raise. She cut federal funding for construction projects, but raised funding to services. She changed the gas and oil tax structure to a profit-based model. In short, she did everything she set out to do, and was absolutely _loved_ by Alaskans. The work she did as governor led to a $10 Million surplus, without raising taxes, and without cutting services. Approval ratings in the high 80s. She did everything right. > > Then, somewhere in the middle of her term, something happened. Something changed. I don’t know why, but she changed to almost an entirely different person. It was the birth of the Palin that everyone outside of Alaska knows. The lying, the manipulative remarks, the absolute certainty of things despite scientific data stating otherwise… all of it comes from here. > > 2007 Palin draws a lot of comparisons with Obama. I think she really does. A young idealist, from outside of the system, becoming popular enough to almost transcend normal political wisdom and do exactly what the People want. > > 2009 Palin also draws from Obama, as in later in the term, people are frustrated that they aren’t getting what they want. Only in this case, the reason why they aren’t getting what they want is because Palin is also drawing a lot of comparisons with Obama’s predecessor. Which doesn’t make any sense if you think about it for any amount of time, (and probably makes no sense in this paragraph,) but welcome to Politics. > > **TL;DR:** 2007 Palin was absolutely awesome, and would make a great POTUS. Shame we have 2009’s model. Yeah, I’ve said all this before on this board. Whether anybody pays any attention to it is another story. We lived through the Rise of $arah from 1998 (when I returned to Alaska) and 2009, when we retired and left the state. I knew people who worked for her and listened to their poor opinions of her. I was willing to forgive that when she appeared to be someone who was sincere and who buckled down to the job of Governor. It went to shit so quickly that everybody was stunned by it, and it quickly came to light just what a vindictive, ignorant nutjob she really is. Since you’ve said something relatively smiley-faced about Palin, \*\*Starving Artist \*\* is now your friend. My advice to him (as I will not address him directly again and get sucked into another pointless, circular, illogical discussion) is: defending her will not persuade her to have sex with him. My brother is gaga over the woman solely because he thinks she’s sex personified. He’s not going to sleep with her, either, but that doesn’t stop him from donning his rose-colored glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/136 "2011-06-12T03:25:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Palin can demonize people all she wants when she’s selling books and doing talk shows. But to get elected she needs 51% of the votes\*. She needs to suck up to the RINOS. That’s what I love about the morons trying to control the once ‘Grand Old Party’. They think the way to win America is to make their party smaller and more ideologically rigid in precisely the ways that destroy any possibility of winning a majority of the American people as a whole. “Hey, let’s kick the moderates out of our party! We don’t need the centrist votes! We can win this thing on our small conservative base!” Someday this will be explained to them and they’ll get that deer in the headlights look and pull out the old Chevy Chase as President Ford quote “I was told there would be no math”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/137 "2011-06-12T03:49:00Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That’s what I love about the morons trying to control the once ‘Grand Old Party’. They think the way to win America is to make their party smaller and more ideologically rigid in precisely the ways that destroy any possibility of winning a majority of the American people as a whole. > > “Hey, let’s kick the moderates out of our party! We don’t need the centrist votes! We can win this thing on our small conservative base!” > > Someday this will be explained to them and they’ll get that deer in the headlights look and pull out the old Chevy Chase as President Ford quote “I was told there would be no math”. And don’t forget, “The voters chose McCain in the primaries over people like Huckabee, Romney, Tancredo, Guiliani, Keyes, Hunter, Paul, Thompson, and Brownback. And then in the general election, the voters chose Obama over McCain. So it’s clear what the voters want - a conservative candidate.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/138 "2011-06-12T03:52:47Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Since you’ve said something relatively smiley-faced about Palin, \*\*Starving Artist \*\* is now your friend. My advice to him (as I will not address him directly again and get sucked into another pointless, circular, illogical discussion) is: defending her will not persuade her to have sex with him. My brother is gaga over the woman solely because he thinks she’s sex personified. He’s not going to sleep with her, either, but that doesn’t stop him from donning his rose-colored glasses. I think this is uncalled for. While Starving Artist is blind to Palin’s flaws, I think it’s clear that he’s acting from ideological motives. There’s no reason to claim he’s just physically infatuated with Palin. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/139 "2011-06-12T13:07:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And then we have to come back to asking why the media never asked such probing foreign policy and worldview questions of Democrats like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, neither of whom had any more foreign policy qualifications than Palin had. From the intro to the second Ford-Carter debate, Oct. 6, 1976: “Thus, it [San Francisco] is an appropriate place to hold this debate, the subject of which is foreign and defense issues.” (For the entire debate, see: [CPD: October 6, 1976 Debate Transcript](http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-6-1976-debate-transcript)) I’m sure \*\*Starving Artist \*\*has an explanation for how asking Carter to participate in an entire debate on foreign policy is nowhere near as arduous as Palin being expected to name the newspapers she reads. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051/140 "2011-06-12T13:27:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think this is uncalled for. While Starving Artist is blind to Palin’s flaws, I think it’s clear that he’s acting from ideological motives. There’s no reason to claim he’s just physically infatuated with Palin. It was made in jest (except in the case of my brother, who is truly infatuated with the woman). However, most of the men I knew in Alaska who were rabid supporters positively salivated over her looks and made it very clear why they liked her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-quitting-as-governor-affect-palins-chances/584051.md?page=8)