# How will the GOP establishment try to kill the Trump nomination? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 11, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812 "2016-02-11T13:39:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/81 "2016-02-12T16:56:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I do understand that some folks have a hard time separating what they want to happen from what they predict will actually happen. It’s the folks who can make that separation and yet still find Trump impossible that confuse me. I don’t think there are any people like the latter. Apparently they don’t get that the Republican establishment is all in a lather exactly because Trump can win the nomination and right now looks like he is going to. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/82 "2016-02-12T17:07:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I thought the standard wisdom is that they’d rather [hold their nose for Trump over Cruz](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/01/gop_elites_prefer_donald_trump_to_ted_cruz.html). Cruz is good for pushing the party right but he’d be destructive in the high office. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Agree completely with all your post. Although as **CarnalK** says, it’s not real obvious (at least to me) which of Trump vs. Cruz the semi-mainstream Rs will rally 'round when forced to choose. I agree with both of you that the party rallying around Trump to stop Cruz seems more likely than the reverse. (And more likely than either: they’ll continue to stay on the sideline, wringing their hands. :)) It’s just that I don’t see any other likely path by which Trump loses. (Other than the ‘Trump self-destructs’ path that continues to not happen.) > [@](#): > > Ref the snip above … > > I do not understand the folks who keep saying Trump can’t win the R nomination. > > I do understand that some folks have a hard time separating what they want to happen from what they predict will actually happen. It’s the folks who can make that separation and yet still find Trump impossible that confuse me. My WAG is that Trump’s (so far) successful domination of the Republican nominating process seems so utterly improbable (has the starship _Heart of Gold_ been in this sector recently? ;)) to people that they have to believe anything this totally improbable will at some point wink out of existence, and things will return to some approximation of normalcy. (“We are now cruising at a level of 2 to the power of 25,000 to 1 against and falling.”) > [@](#): > > Admittedly it’s still early days in the primary campaign and a lot might still go haywire for the front runners. But to blithely assume, much less to insist, that a _deus ex machina_ will appear to up-end the _status quo_ with all its momentum seems … ill-advised. Totally agree on both counts. The one thing I’d add is that it’s later than everyone thinks. When we wake up on the morning of March 16, (a) over half the delegates will have already been determined, and (b) the winner-take-all primaries in FL and OH that are the last, best chance for all three of the remaining Establishment Lane candidates to pull off a big win and redefine the race will have just happened the day before. Trump’s been leading in the polls for 7 months. March 16 is 33 days away. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/83 "2016-02-12T17:21:04Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > If the R’s were able to grab their ankles and take the Tea Party in, they’ll not be unable to absorb all of Trump’s Nazi-ism. This is what happens when a party, or religion or business organization fails to have sound ethical underpinnings. The R party is, essentially, a group of aiders and abetters of plutocrats. Peasants, peons, esnes and serfs licking the boots of the mighty. Trump is literally worse than Hitler and Satan combined. All the evils he has done in the world, murdering billions of people and eating billions of babies is just the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/84 "2016-02-12T17:59:15Z")
Trump: Fascist Narcissist with extremely thin skin. Not worthy of public office. Rubio: Pretty clearly has shown that he cannot handle stress well. I don’t think the Presidency, which ages it’s victims horribly, is something he can do. Cruz: His own party hates him and he doesn’t play nice with anyone. Not someone who should ever be President even if you completely support everything he says. Carson: Just NOPE. Not equipped to be the leader of the free world. Kasich: “Moderate” (ha!) but still has too many loony ideas. Still probably a better president than any of the above, but won’t get it because he’s not looney ENOUGH for the teahadists. Trump? All I can think is that there is still that price on his head from the Mexican drug lords. If he starts pushing the rabid anti-hispanic thing again, we’ll have to see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/85 "2016-02-12T18:05:54Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Nope. [She’s endorsing Cruz as of the 4th.](http://www.satiratribune.com/2016/02/04/sarah-palin-changes-endorsement-to-ted-cruz/) The “Satira Tribune” is a fake news site, yes? It’s a funny article, but anyone who sees your post above and doesn’t click on the link might think it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/86 "2016-02-12T19:02:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I really don’t get this idea of “He’s rich so he won’t be tempted by other peoples’ money”. That’s exactly how you get rich: By accepting other peoples’ money every chance that you get. In fact, there’s no other way to get rich. His price tag is just higher - a lot higher. And the incremental value of $100 million to him is small. He’d rather have the power than more money. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/87 "2016-02-12T19:11:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t think there are any people like the latter. Apparently they don’t get that the Republican establishment is all in a lather exactly because Trump can win the nomination and right now looks like he is going to. If they are it is because they are in denial. But a month or so back plenty of people on both the left and the right were saying that when the voters actually got near to voting time and looked at the information they’d turn away from Trump to someone reasonable, usually Rubio. It didn’t happen that way. In fact Trump did a lot better in Iowa than he should have, considering how many evangelicals they have there and how anyone with eyes can see that Trump is nowhere close to being religious. Where we are now is the hope for something miraculous that would give the nomination to someone else not Cruz. Rubio triumphing in NH and being the only mainstream candidate left. The Rubio-bot screwed that up. It’s interesting that no one in this thread has found a good strategy for the establishment to use. That says a lot. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/88 "2016-02-12T19:14:22Z")
Assassination? It worked with RFK. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/89 "2016-02-12T19:16:24Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Trump: Fascist Narcissist with extremely thin skin. Not worthy of public office. > > Rubio: Pretty clearly has shown that he cannot handle stress well. I don’t think the Presidency, which ages it’s victims horribly, is something he can do. > > Cruz: His own party hates him and he doesn’t play nice with anyone. Not someone who should ever be President even if you completely support everything he says. > > Carson: Just NOPE. Not equipped to be the leader of the free world. > > Kasich: “Moderate” (ha!) but still has too many loony ideas. Still probably a better president than any of the above, but won’t get it because he’s not looney ENOUGH for the teahadists. > Trump? All I can think is that there is still that price on his head from the Mexican drug lords. If he starts pushing the rabid anti-hispanic thing again, we’ll have to see what happens. And Bush? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/90 "2016-02-12T19:17:32Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > Assassination? It worked with RFK. And Bullworth. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/91 "2016-02-12T19:31:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It’s interesting that no one in this thread has found a good strategy for the establishment to use. That says a lot. The GOP has been a coalition of populist political groups claiming to have been fighting the establishment themselves for a long time now. In order to work this without insulting their base they have some options based on the circumstances ahead. In order to promote Bush, Kasich, or Rubio they need to execute a deal that makes one of them the candidate and the other two his allies. This could be very likely if one of them takes a noticeable lead over the other two, or if either Cruz or Trump drops out and plays king maker with his support. If either Trump or Cruz begins to falter they can make a deal with them as well to cut the problem down to just one anti-establishment candidate. At that point they can begin non-candidate specific party based marketing ostensibly aimed at the upcoming general election, but carefully oriented toward the establishment message. If Trump and Cruz are both left in the race the timing for that is critical to pick up delegates where either of them is weak and let the people speak where they are strong. They need deniability so that the contest doesn’t look more rigged than it already it is. If they can use techniques like that to reduce this to a two man competition the party influence can be more blatant. And if necessary they can put a dirty tricks hit on the remaining problem child to put their weak minded candidate or Kasich through. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/92 "2016-02-12T19:53:54Z")
I don’t suppose it’s occurred to the GOP establishment or any of the other candidates to ask Trump for just one detailed, specific policy proposal? That would put a quick end to the main event in ring 2 of the tent. 1. Condition your followers to distrust ‘the media’ via your propaganda arm, Fox News. 2. Condition your followers to distrust ‘the establishment’ via your militant wing, The Tea Party. 3. Condition your followers to eschew all human decency via AM-radio talking heads who conflate “PC” with “not acting like a raging dick”. 4. Watch in horror as your bleating followers, radicalized beyond all control, flock to the first loudmouthed bully who manages to condense your political philosophy into a series of rude, sexist, content-free, willfully uninformed bumper sticker slogans, resisting all efforts of Fox and Establishment Republicans to pull his plug. 5. As a result of the loudmouth’s candidacy, spend a generation in the political wilderness. Schadenfreude isn’t my favorite freude, but in this case it’ll do nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/93 "2016-02-12T20:06:15Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > The “Satira Tribune” is a fake news site, yes? It’s a funny article, but anyone who sees your post above and doesn’t click on the link might think it’s true. Exactly. There’s still millions of Palin lovers. Maybe not on this board… 😉 The same way people say, “Trump’s bankruptcies don’t matter.” I remember when all the layoffs happened in Atlantic City. He’ll be a great job creator. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/94 "2016-02-12T20:12:14Z")
@irae Agree philosophically, but don’t make the mistake of thinking the braying horde doesn’t have very real consequences for the governance the rest of us live under. And heaven help us all if Trump wins the general election. His coattail Congressmen would be amazing. Even if we don’t start seeing them until 2018. Winners breed followers. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/95 "2016-02-12T20:40:47Z")
Absolutely not. Those folks are dragging down the curve! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/96 "2016-02-12T20:52:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Where we are now is the hope for something miraculous that would give the nomination to someone else not Cruz. Rubio triumphing in NH and being the only mainstream candidate left. The Rubio-bot screwed that up. > > It’s interesting that no one in this thread has found a good strategy for the establishment to use. That says a lot. The good strategies all involved, as you say, “Rubio triumphing in NH and being the only mainstream candidate left.” Now they’re fucked. > [@TriPolar](#): > > In order to promote Bush, Kasich, or Rubio they need to execute a deal that makes one of them the candidate and the other two his allies. The problem for now is, each one of them has convincing reasons (in their own minds, at least) for why they should be the one to stay in the running. > [@](#): > > This could be very likely if one of them takes a noticeable lead over the other two Yeah, but that’ll take time. Time is something they don’t have much of. And all three of them are motivated to stay in until the WTA primaries in their respective home states on March 15. Besides, what coin can one offer any of these guys in exchange for dropping out before they’re ready to call it quits, that would be worth something to them? > [@](#): > > , or if either Cruz or Trump drops out and plays king maker with his support. If either Trump or Cruz begins to falter they can make a deal with them as well to cut the problem down to just one anti-establishment candidate. For this to happen, one of the Establishment lane candidates really has to get into second place first, and stay there long enough to convince Trump/Cruz, whichever is trailing, to drop out. But the underlying problem is that of getting one of the Establishment candidates in second place to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/97 "2016-02-12T21:30:12Z")
> [@irae](#): > > I don’t suppose it’s occurred to the GOP establishment or any of the other candidates to ask Trump for just one detailed, specific policy proposal? It has. > [@](#): > > That would put a quick end to the main event in ring 2 of the tent. It hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/98 "2016-02-12T21:55:21Z")
Fine, then ask _and don’t stop_ until you get an answer that comports with the adult, objective reality most of us experience. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/99 "2016-02-12T21:57:45Z")
> [@irae](#): > > Fine, then ask _and don’t stop_ until you get an answer that comports with the adult, objective reality most of us experience. How much patience and persistence do you have? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812/100 "2016-02-12T23:01:12Z")
The debate format is essentially dueling sound bites. With no way for one candidate to really force another to answer. So “forcing Trump to provide a detailed policy for X” is simply not gonna happen. The larger point is the one I made [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19094719&postcount=17) in the thread about about a Trump vs Hillary debate. The scoring system used by the Trump fans is not the scoring system used by the non-Trump fans. Whatever he says will be declared a victory by the folks that matter to him. Having, e.g., CNN roundly condemn his non-answers as bombastic and childish will only further inflame his supporters. Of which there are now enough to have cultural gravity all their own. They’re attracting new adherents as much by the band-wagon effect as by agreement with the “principles” of the Trump message. Populism, once it gets the bit in its teeth, is like wildfire: vastly easier to prevent than to control. Ask PASOK & the other establishment parties in Greece these days. Or in several other European countries. Regardless of who gets elected in 2016 I predict that if we have another significant recession the 2020 election will feature a lot more demagogues and a lot less “establishment lane.” Given the lower levels of social capital in this country, the deeply entrenched us/them attitudes, and the severe geographic stratification, it could get a lot less pleasant than merely empowering the US equivalent of Syriza. See [Syriza - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriza) for those who don’t follow EU & Greek politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-establishment-try-to-kill-the-trump-nomination/745812.md?page=6)