# How will the GOP rebrand the party? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775 "2008-05-18T18:46:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/21 "2008-05-19T01:42:59Z")
Damn Massachusetts liberals … ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/22 "2008-05-19T01:45:40Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Assuming you’re being sarcastic, I would have to say if Republicans actually took up the cause of smaller government and correspondingly lower taxes, I’d be quite surprised. At this point, advocating that would be a complete rebrand of the party. [/QUOTE] No, they’re advocating it just fine. Doing it is the problem. Do you think they haven’t lowered taxes in the past seven years? The issue is shrinking government, and they haven’t come up with any plausible way of doing that and not totally getting their asses kicked. What we’re hearing now is McCain saying he’ll pay for more tax cuts by cutting out this mysterious waste, which is the first argument of the tax-cutting loon who wants to convince people he can cut the size of government while not cutting any benefits. It has never worked. How do you propose to cut the size of government while keeping those who do so in office? About the only popular cost cutting I can think of is getting out of Iraq. This cut taxes and cut spending stuff is about as realistic as a Communist depending on people to work for the good of society and not be rewarded. The “branding” problem is simply reality catching up to them. The worst thing that ever happened to the right is having the true believers take power - and Reagan acted like one, but he wasn’t really one. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/23 "2008-05-19T02:44:05Z")
I think they need to start tying every Democratic Congressional candidate to Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Jeremiah Wright. That oughta do it. What? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/24 "2008-05-19T03:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Right on brother! Considering the way the special elections are going in staunch Republican districts, they should wind up with, say a few dozen, house seats in next January. Sounds good to me. [/QUOTE] It’s not going to be _that_ big a wave, but Tom Davis (see prev post and [this](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aic8y6.NI6ys&refer=home) ) says Republicans would lose 20 to 25 House seats if the election were held today. With the current figures at 235D-198R, an additional 25 democrats would raise their majority to 59.77%. Such a blowout would put a real crimp in the GOP’s ability to obstruct legislation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/25 "2008-05-19T03:48:49Z")
Sure, they obstruct legislation. Perhaps as importantly, they obstruct investigations. And there’s a lot out there that might tempt an investigation, they could spend a month on Ted Stevens (R-Gnome, AK). Its an axiom of politics that only the ruling party has the option of being corrupted, which leads to the rare but happy circimstance that a just investigation is a brutally partisan investigation. So the troubles with the Pubbie brand are just getting started. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/26 "2008-05-19T04:49:50Z")
My impression is that Young Republicans like Ann Coulter. That could guide a re-branding. -FrL- ETA: Which reminds me… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/27 "2008-05-19T05:12:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure, they obstruct legislation. Perhaps as importantly, they obstruct investigations. And there’s a lot out there that might tempt an investigation, they could spend a month on Ted Stevens (R-Gnome, AK). Its an axiom of politics that only the ruling party has the option of being corrupted, which leads to the rare but happy circimstance that a just investigation is a brutally partisan investigation. This wasn’t always the case. Past practice in politics is that while the party in power gets the lion’s share of the money, you would always made sure to throw some bones to the opposing party. It was self-interest not charity - politicians wanted to make sure that their opponents were involved enough to want to keep things quiet. Tom DeLay and his K Street Project changed these rules. He began insisting that not only would lobbyists make the appropriate gestures to Republicans but that they also not give anything to Democrats. In the short run, many Democrats found themselves short on money and this helped the Republicans pull ahead. But as we’ve seen, it eventually turned back on DeLay. Cut off from soft money and forced into probity whether they liked it or not, the Democrats had no incentive to not call attention to Republican shenanigans, including DeLay’s. He have been smarter to have let his opponents “wet their beak”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/28 "2008-05-19T06:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] It’s not going to be _that_ big a wave, but Tom Davis (see prev post and [this](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aic8y6.NI6ys&refer=home) ) says Republicans would lose 20 to 25 House seats if the election were held today. With the current figures at 235D-198R, an additional 25 democrats would raise their majority to 59.77%. Such a blowout would put a real crimp in the GOP’s ability to obstruct legislation. [/QUOTE] He may be right, but remember that as of today McCain is getting almost a free ride, and the Dems are just starting to come out of a hard fought battle. Think of what it is going to be like in November when Hillary is behind Obama, and when the ads run of McCain kissing W’s pecker. Cheney went to Mississippi to get out the vote for Davis. Compared to the first round the Davis total went up by 47% - but the Childers vote went up by 142%. Finally, don’t you think that Davis is going to give the lowest loss total that will motivate change without being totally defeatist? The Dems have a lot more money, the Republicans have lost three safe seats, and this is all before there is Democratic unity. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/29 "2008-05-19T12:43:05Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Think of what it is going to be like in November when Hillary is behind Obama, and when the ads run of McCain kissing W’s pecker… [/QUOTE] Small town Lutherans\* will always be small town Lutherans, and they’ll vote for the familiar, which is the Republican. > [@](#): > > don’t you think that Davis is going to give the lowest loss total that will motivate change without being totally defeatist? I don’t think Davis would want to lowball his estimate of GOP losses in an internal party document meant to shake up the party. With the GOP house already down to 198, a loss of 25 would be an apocalypse. * * * \*I’ve nothing against small town Lutherans. It’s just that I married one, and am somewhat familiar with the breed. I expect that much of non-urban America will continue to vote for the guys who are slotted into their local power structure. That’s the GOP. Sure, the Dems 50 state strategy will make some inroads, but it can’t yet field strong candidates in every district. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/30 "2008-05-19T12:47:25Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Here’s the bullets from “The American Families Agenda” of the [House Republican Conference](http://www.gop.gov/web/guest/changeyoudeserve) [/QUOTE] Well stated Comrade! republicans need to rat fuck the moral majority and returnto being fiscally conservative. not lip service (“tax & spend dems”) ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/31 "2008-05-19T13:15:36Z")
This is why I have no political affiliation. The term ‘brand is bothersome to me. We’re not talking about a new and improved dish soap. All any of them need to do is be effective. That takes working with your opposition not spending the majority of your time excoriating each other. I do agree the Republicans should dump the religious right, let them form their own party. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/32 "2008-05-19T13:32:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Nothing [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_roosevelt#Square_Deal_and_regulation_of_industry) suggests it. Unlike “That Man!” FDR, TR was never reviled as a traitor to his class. But the point is that both Lincoln and TR believed in federal government activism as a way to improve the people’s lives, though the content of their ideas in that regard was (unsurprisingly, given the time difference) somewhat different . **Whereas today’s GOP has committed itself to rejecting that idea.** [/QUOTE] No it hasn’t. Neo-Conservatism is one of the most progressive agendas ever to be imposed on the US. It makes Bill Clinton look downright conservative with his status quo maintenance politics. I want small government, but just don’t close MY military base. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/33 "2008-05-19T14:00:28Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] No it hasn’t. Neo-Conservatism is one of the most progressive agendas ever to be imposed on the US. It makes Bill Clinton look downright conservative with his status quo maintenance politics. I want small government, but just don’t close MY military base. [/QUOTE] Still, the GOP has committed itself to rejecting the **idea** of activist government. That’s the preaching. Practice is another thing entirely. ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/34 "2008-05-19T16:25:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Hm. Most of those things would be very government-activist. And very expensive. [/QUOTE] Here are the facts as we know them as of March 3, 2008. Here’s the data from [“The National Taxpayer Union”](http://www.ntu.org/misc_items/rating/VS_2006.pdf) NTU believes a score qualifying for a grade of “A” indicates the Member is one of the strongest supporters of responsible tax and spending policies. A score significantly below average qualifies for a grade of “F.” This failing grade places the Member into the “Big Spender” category. **Obama scored an ‘F’ a 16% rating.** While McCain scored an \*\*‘A’ \*\*a 88% rating. Oh Happy Day, Oh Happy Day! When McCain washed my taxes away. > [@](#): > > The National Taxpayers Union Foundation’s (NTUF’s) candidate cost analysis project show that their federal budget proposals are racing ahead as well. According to neutral data, Obama’s platform would boost yearly federal spending by $307.3 billion, 36% higher the Clintons, $226.1 billion > > The GOP candidate John McCain called for spending hikes of $6.9 billion. Dated March 3, 2008 [Page Not Found - Search - National Taxpayers Union](http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=995&org_name=NTUF) I support the ‘Fair Tax’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/35 "2008-05-19T16:29:10Z")
[QUOTE=focusonz] Here are the facts as we know them as of March 3, 2008. Oh Happy Day, Oh Happy Day! When McCain washed my taxes away. I support the ‘Fair Tax’. [/QUOTE] And how do you expect the “Fair Tax,” or any tax policy McCain would come up with, to finance the things on “The American Families Agenda” of the House Republican Committee? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/36 "2008-05-19T16:33:05Z")
By cutting taxes, of course! Really, **BG** , do try and keep up, won’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/37 "2008-05-19T16:44:53Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Assuming you’re being sarcastic, I would have to say if Republicans actually took up the cause of smaller government and correspondingly lower taxes, I’d be quite surprised. At this point, advocating that would be a complete rebrand of the party. [/QUOTE] Define “advocating”. Is that actually doing it or just talking about it? Even after the Dubya years, there are (and will be) people who will yell about how Democrats grow the size of gubmint and how Republicans shrink it. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/38 "2008-05-19T16:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Neo-Conservatism is one of the most progressive agendas ever to be imposed on the US. [/QUOTE] BTW, no it isn’t. “Big spending” does not equate to “progressive.” The key point is what the money is spent on. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/39 "2008-05-19T20:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Small town Lutherans\* will always be small town Lutherans, and they’ll vote for the familiar, which is the Republican. I don’t think Davis would want to lowball his estimate of GOP losses in an internal party document meant to shake up the party. With the GOP house already down to 198, a loss of 25 would be an apocalypse. [/QUOTE] If you make too dire a prediction, people stop listening. I agree that a loss of 25 is dire enough, though. I also agree that there will be plenty of districts which will vote for a Republican regardless, especially considering the incumbent advantage. This didn’t play a part in the three special elections. But the Republicans are going to have to spend more of their scarce funds defending districts that used to be safe, and this is going to have a snowball effect, as will the big increase in the number of registered Dems thanks to the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775/40 "2008-05-19T20:10:28Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Small town Lutherans\* will always be small town Lutherans, and they’ll vote for the familiar, which is the Republican. [/QUOTE] I think Garrison Keillor might beg to differ. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-gop-rebrand-the-party/449775.md?page=3)