# How will the OWS vs. Tea Party lineup affect the 2012 elections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729 "2011-11-12T21:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/21 "2011-11-16T12:43:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Why does he care? Somehow I don’t expect a lot of OWSers will be voting in the Republican primaries. The OWSers who are committed enough to actively protest may be mostly Democrats, but there are a significant number of Republican voters who listen and nod at the message about the decay of the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/22 "2011-11-16T14:27:03Z")
The Tea Partiers didn’t actually have very many participants but it was a rallying cry that energized a demoralized based. I think OWS might serve much teh same role and provide enthusiasm to a demoralized Democratic base. A base that, like the tea party, is extremely disappointed in its political leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/23 "2011-11-16T14:49:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Why does he care? Somehow I don’t expect a lot of OWSers will be voting in the Republican primaries. This election isn’t won at the fringes, it’s won in the middle. Romney is feeling like he has the nomination sewn up, so he’s going after the middle part of America for support. The question remains if he’s doing it prematurely. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/24 "2011-11-16T14:50:38Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I think the OWS movement is hoping to change the political discussion and influence Obama’s priorities during his second term. They’re helping to bring attention to the increasing wealth disparity that many Americans might not have even realized was happening. If they influence the election, it will probably be to the detriment of Republicans. > > ETA: There’s not much comparison to the Tea Party here. There will be no Occupy Wall Street candidates challenging mainstream Democrat candidates, for example. I bet you there will be a couple somewhere, across the nation. They’ll get outgunned, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/25 "2011-11-16T14:59:51Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > This election isn’t won at the fringes, it’s won in the middle. Romney is feeling like he has the nomination sewn up, so he’s going after the middle part of America for support. The question remains if he’s doing it prematurely. First time I’ve seen the OWSers characterized even by implication as “the middle.” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/26 "2011-11-17T06:04:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If he’d been white, would the Tea Party protests even have got off the ground? Maybe, maybe not. Limbaugh and others absolutely detests Hillary Clinton so probably even worse and John Edwards being the nominee would probably guarantee GOP victory, ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/27 "2011-11-17T19:53:38Z")
How can anything guarantee a Repub victory? have you watched the debates? What a group of stars that is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/28 "2011-11-17T21:28:27Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > How can anything guarantee a Repub victory? have you watched the debates? What a group of stars that is. We’re talking about **all** the 2012 elections here, including Congress. How will the OWS-vs.-Tea-Party lineup affect **that?** ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/29 "2011-11-17T23:05:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We’re talking about **all** the 2012 elections here, including Congress. How will the OWS-vs.-Tea-Party lineup affect **that?** There is plenty or resonance in the Occupation messages. It seems some states are prosecuting the mortgagers malfeasance . That will ring a chime for many who wonder why they were allowed to get away with grand theft. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/30 "2011-11-17T23:15:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As for [OWS:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street#Public_opinion) > > Not bad for the first two months. There are people who know what the OWS goals are?! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/31 "2011-11-18T05:58:55Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > There are people who know what the OWS goals are?! People who read. They have expressed their concerns many times, but it does not distill down to one or 2. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/32 "2011-11-18T09:27:23Z")
Are there actually OWS candidates? Should there be? I think there should be, but I’m guessing BrainGlutton disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/33 "2011-11-18T15:42:26Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > People who read. They have expressed their concerns many times, but it does not distill down to one or 2. Concerns =/= goals. Say what you will about the Tea Party, but at least they finally managed to cobble together an endgame (no matter that said endgame was electing one-term congresscritters with shady finances, and making said Congresscritters pretend to care about the Constitution). ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/34 "2011-11-18T17:36:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Concerns =/= goals. Say what you will about the Tea Party, but at least they finally managed to cobble together an endgame (no matter that said endgame was electing one-term congresscritters with shady finances, and making said Congresscritters pretend to care about the Constitution). This is an excellent point; unless and until OWS engages the political process, all they’re doing is “changing the conversation”–which given how fickle the media is just won’t have a lasting effect. Endorsing and promting political candidates seems like a necessary condition for this movement to obtain the change they want. It’s hardly sufficient, but without it the media will either start to ignore them or (at the bidding of the more politically-connected 1%) portray them as violent or irrational. We’re already seeing the latter. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/35 "2011-11-18T18:11:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Concerns =/= goals. Say what you will about the Tea Party, but at least they finally managed to cobble together an endgame (no matter that said endgame was electing one-term congresscritters with shady finances, and making said Congresscritters pretend to care about the Constitution). When you are representing the 99 percent, you have to address various concerns. The overriding issue is the bankers bilking millions out of their homes . But the lack of jobs is another legit and crippling problem. To people who are trying to get an education, having and educational mortgage is a big deal. To many desperate people ,halting foreclosures is a immediate concern. The Outrageous income gap is a huge deal to those who see it as a fundamental danger to the American system . Replacing Glass/Steagal is another way to go. There is a myriad of problems which grow from the core problem of allowing the wealthy to take over the government and pass laws and regulations that help them at the expense of the masses. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/36 "2011-11-18T18:18:06Z")
Big tent. Fine, I get it. The problem is that somebody still has to come up with a concrete list of demands and get others to support it. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/37 "2011-11-19T17:08:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > First time I’ve seen the OWSers characterized even by implication as “the middle.” That’s not where I was going with that comment. The message of Occupy is resonating, and there are registered Democrats and registered Republicans and they’re going to vote that way. The election is won or lost in those that aren’t declared. I don’t think that really clarifies, though. Occupy Wall Street can have an impact on the election. The big question is if they \*want \*to. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/38 "2011-11-20T05:34:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > First time I’ve seen the OWSers characterized even by implication as “the middle.” They’re not any further from the middle than the Tea Party is. Both movements have mainstream arguments. The Tea Party message of smaller government, lower taxes, and lower debt isn’t exactly radical. Of course, neither is the Occupy Wall Street message of economic justice, financial regulation and accountability, and reversing wealth disparity. A reasonable person could be persuaded by arguments from either side. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/39 "2011-11-20T19:27:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Big tent. Fine, I get it. The problem is that somebody still has to come up with a concrete list of demands and get others to support it. No, I think the OWSers will have achieved a huge and meaningful success if they can just pull America’s political center-of-gravity leftwards, the way the Tea Partiers have been striving to pull it rightward. And there are various conceivable ways to achieve that, not all of them involving direct political negotiation or electoral actions of any kind in the near term. Beginning with Goldwater’s crushing defeat in 1964, the American far-right (such as it was; rather RINO by today’s standards), with the help of some interested wealthy/corporate donors, quietly (and to a great extent secretly) organized and organized, grassroots and astroturf, and built up their own network of D.C. think-tanks and supportive publications and commentators, and built a power by running far-right candidates in low-contest, low-publicity local elections (many such “flying under the radar,” i.e., dissembling their politics – sounds like somethin’ **Commies** would do, don’t it? ;)) , and took over the GOP from within and finally succeeded in taking power in 1980 with the Reagan Revolution. The OWSers could do something like that – and, as they are starting from a position of **greater strength,** in terms of visibility and grassroots popularity, than hard-right politics in 1964, they can do it all more openly, and they can do it faster. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/40 "2011-11-20T19:51:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Beginning with Goldwater’s crushing defeat in 1964 . . . - You can read the story in [_Right Nation: Conservative Power in America,_](http://www.amazon.com/Right-Nation-Conservative-Power-America/dp/1594200203) by Adrian Wooldridge and John Micklethwait. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729.md?page=3)