# How will the OWS vs. Tea Party lineup affect the 2012 elections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729 "2011-11-12T21:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/41 "2011-11-20T21:35:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I think the OWSers will have achieved a huge and meaningful success if they can just pull America’s political center-of-gravity leftwards, the way the Tea Partiers have been striving to pull it rightward. And there are various conceivable ways to achieve that, not all of them involving direct political negotiation or electoral actions of any kind in the near term. Beginning with Goldwater’s crushing defeat in 1964, the American far-right (such as it was; rather RINO by today’s standards), with the help of some interested wealthy/corporate donors, quietly (and to a great extent secretly) organized and organized, grassroots and astroturf, and built up their own network of D.C. think-tanks and supportive publications and commentators, and built a power by running far-right candidates in low-contest, low-publicity local elections (many such “flying under the radar,” i.e., dissembling their politics – sounds like somethin’ **Commies** would do, don’t it? ;)) , and took over the GOP from within and finally succeeded in taking power in 1980 with the Reagan Revolution. The OWSers could do something like that – and, as they are starting from a position of **greater strength,** in terms of visibility and grassroots popularity, than hard-right politics in 1964, they can do it all more openly, and they can do it faster. And, of course, at the same time, the Democrats have also moved further right, accepting and internalizing libertarian critiques of liberalism. So, now, the idea of government programs like those of the New Deal and the Great Society is completely foreign to American political discourse. Everything is all about creating market-based solutions to allow people more choice. With the result that there seems to be a sort of neoliberal consensus among elites of both parties and the media. I think you once had an OP linking to a Michael Lind article that dealt with the phenomenon. I happen to quite like [this piece by Peter Frase](http://www.peterfrase.com/2011/10/the-partisan-and-the-political/) on how this neoliberal consensus is portrayed as non-ideological in the media (and notice the recent description of the new Italian and Greek leaders as “technocrats” rather than as people ideologically disposed toward austerity): > [@](#): > > To summarize the thesis: ordinary people hate partisanship, and elites hate ideology. Hence the elite is constantly attempting to misrepresent the latter as the former. And the masses sometimes respond by repudiating ideology when they mean to reject partisanship. In any event, OWS seems to be the best hope at the moment we have for questioning this and ultimately broadening the range of acceptable political discourse. I mean, if the Tea Party can get the (maybe) leading candidate for the GOP Presidential nomination discussing bringing back child labor, it doesn’t seem too far fetched to hope OWS can bring back New Deal liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/42 "2011-11-21T00:31:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Big tent. Fine, I get it. The problem is that somebody still has to come up with a concrete list of demands and get others to support it. Unfortunately, they do not have their own Fox News to do that for them. What, are expecting 99% of the population to have one or two bullet points, starting with the word “No”? Progressivism leads in a wide variety of directions, since there are so many things we need to improve upon. The reactionism we see from the Teabag astroturfism is simply saying “No” to any proposal to move forward. That, by comparison, constitutes a “concrete list of demands” of the type you seem to consider important. Well, friend, simplicity in public policy is \*not \*necessarily a virtue, but far more often the opposite. What OWS has shown is the widespread hunger for concrete ways to improve our situation as a society. Developing and proposing these ways is the role of public servants running for and holding office. What they’ve done is make it safe, and even desirable, for public servants to take progressive positions. What the Baggers have done is make Republican pols afraid to do anything but oppose. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/43 "2011-11-21T18:28:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Concerns =/= goals. Say what you will about the Tea Party, but at least they finally managed to cobble together an endgame (no matter that said endgame was electing one-term congresscritters with shady finances, and making said Congresscritters pretend to care about the Constitution). They had enormous financial backing . The people didn’t cobble shirt together. It was the wealthy rich people who figured out how to use them. This movement would have died a quick death if the Koch Bros., Armey and Nordquist didn’t see a use for them. Do you imagine the huge halls they talked in were free and available to the rabble? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/44 "2011-11-21T18:38:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Unfortunately, they do not have their own Fox News to do that for them. What, are expecting 99% of the population to have one or two bullet points, starting with the word “No”? > > Progressivism leads in a wide variety of directions, since there are so many things we need to improve upon. The reactionism we see from the Teabag astroturfism is simply saying “No” to any proposal to move forward. That, by comparison, constitutes a “concrete list of demands” of the type you seem to consider important. Well, friend, simplicity in public policy is \*not \*necessarily a virtue, but far more often the opposite. > > What OWS has shown is the widespread hunger for concrete ways to improve our situation as a society. Developing and proposing these ways is the role of public servants running for and holding office. What they’ve done is make it safe, and even desirable, for public servants to take progressive positions. What the Baggers have done is make Republican pols afraid to do anything but oppose. 99% of the population? Don’t be absurd. While I might agree, as a general principle, that progressive politics benefit 99% of the people, not even the most starry-eyed bearded student thinks 99% of the people support OWS- or care. Anyway, OWS, like the Tea Party, is _primarily_ an economic phenomenon. I’m sure most of those people want on-demand abortion and gay marriage and lots of other social niceties, but the reason they’re all out there is because they’re pissed off about income inequality. If there’s anything we’ve learned from the Tea Party, it’s that you can’t have your cake and marry it too. If your gripe is economic, focus on that. Everything else will follow. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/45 "2011-12-01T15:28:48Z")
[Poll: Support for the Tea Party falls even in its “strongholds.”](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/us/politics/tea-party-support-falls-even-in-strongholds-survey-finds.html) > [@](#): > > In Congressional districts represented by Tea Party lawmakers, the number of people saying they disagree with the movement has risen significantly since it powered a Republican sweep in midterm elections; almost as many people disagree with it as agree with it, according to the analysis by the Pew Research Center. > > Support for the Republican Party has fallen even further in those places than it has in the country as a whole. In the 60 districts represented in Congress by a member of the House Tea Party Caucus, Republicans are now viewed about as negatively as Democrats. > > The analysis suggests that the Tea Party may be dragging down the Republican Party heading into a presidential election year, even as it ushered in a new Republican majority in the House of Representatives just a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/46 "2011-12-01T16:22:43Z")
I’ll leave it to \*\*Brain Glutton \*\*and the NYT to educate us wrt the Tea Party. As for the Occupiers, I’ve got a feeling their tricks will continue and won’t go so well for the Dems once the election season begins. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/47 "2012-01-24T23:40:49Z")
[This WaPo blogger,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/why-the-tea-party-is-responsible-for-newt-gingrich/2012/01/24/gIQARxWyNQ_blog.html) at least, blames/credits the Tea Party for the rise of Gingrich. Meanwhile, [OWS has a candidate for Congress.](http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/01/occupy-wall-street-has-a-candidate-for-congress.html) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/48 "2012-01-24T23:55:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Meanwhile, [OWS has a candidate for Congress.](http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/01/occupy-wall-street-has-a-candidate-for-congress.html) LOL. That picture alone is enough to sink his “candidacy”, such as it is. Guy looks like a freaking clown, and is primarying an incumbent Dem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/49 "2012-01-25T01:11:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > LOL. That picture alone is enough to sink his “candidacy”, such as it is. Guy looks like a freaking clown, and is primarying an incumbent Dem. Gee, sounds like something those dumbass clowns in the Tea Party would do . . . ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729/50 "2012-01-25T03:59:44Z")
Isn’t Elizabeth Warren the Marquis OWS candidate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-ows-vs-tea-party-lineup-affect-the-2012-elections/602729.md?page=2)