# How Will the U.S. Meet Its End? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630 "2003-03-11T19:01:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/21 "2003-03-12T05:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > \*\*Wow was the written on one breath? > > My WAG - it’ll never happen. World Union would happen before the united states fails. > > The land, and natural resources are just two vast. SAM’s hitting an airliner, have no effect on the business except to make more people lose their jobs and security around airports gets even tighter. \*\* The Land, and natural resources are just too vast. Planes crashing into buildings will have no effect on business except to make people lose their jobs and security around airports gets even tighter. ---
**Author:** ![yolady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f04885/32.png) [@yolady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yolady)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/22 "2003-03-12T06:17:15Z")
The bigger they are, the harder they fall. The US is not an ancient culture like China which has self-destructed many times and, within a few hundred or so years, rebuilt itself. The US is an upstart (don’t get me wrong, love you guys) and a flash in the pan. My prediction: many US cities will be destroyed by suicidal terrorists with nukes in their suitcases. The economic structure will collapse under all the pressure. Democracy is mostly a joke and this will become increasingly apparent as freedoms are curtailed. Time: 20 to 30 years, if we are lucky. Oh, and the best American ideals will emerge, cleansed in the fire of adversity, and will spread far beyond your borders. But your country will be a wasteland. Real peace within a thousand years. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/23 "2003-03-12T06:32:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yolady \* > \*\* Real peace within a thousand years. \*\* What?, haven’t you hear of the great [Singularity](http://members.tripod.com/Transtopia/semper.html) geez ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/24 "2003-03-12T06:44:39Z")
Remember the idea that the Japanese were going to surpass us? Does anyone remember Kruschev saying the Russians (or maybe it was the communists) were going to bury us? Do you remember a guy named Stalin or another one named Hitler? 😃 [sup] **I do.** [/sup] [ul]😛 [sup] **You’re better come up with something better to convince me.** [/sup][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![IEatFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@IEatFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IEatFood)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/25 "2003-03-12T06:49:25Z")
> [@](#): > > China and to a lesser degree, India. Both places have a billion+ people, so assuming they aren’t nuked, stall in economic growth over the long term, or China doesn’t do its typical “I don’t need foriegn trade, just leave us alone you smelly barbarians” thing it has done in the past when it was the most powerful nation. Nope, India is too enmired in local politics (read: Pakistan --The Paks!–) Also, unlike the US or China, their borders were shaped by another Empire about 1.5 centuries ago, with little if any reagrd to the peoples within. India can’t decide for the life of itself whether it wants to be an Asian Democracy or a MiddleEastern Autocracy. Add to the fact that much of India doesn’t even speak the same languages as the rest of itself. It would just about take divine intervention to ammeliorate the rather hefty odds stacked against it there, just to bring it to economic parity with the other superpowers out there. China? Same story as India, just not nearly as severe. While it cannot be denied that China has come a long way technologically, their government is still among the most backwards of this world. If they could radically alter that (I do not see how this is at all possible btw), they might have a chance. BUT (there is always a But), were that ever to occur, I think the US is not stupid enough to just sit back & let it happen. China’s neighbor to the north is far, far richer in all types of resources, and a massive American investment towards Russian development will put a very quick end to Chinese ambition in this theatre. > [@](#): > > The bigger they are, the harder they fall. The US is not an ancient culture like China which has self-destructed many times and, within a few hundred or so years, rebuilt itself. The US is an upstart (don’t get me wrong, love you guys) and a flash in the pan. My prediction: many US cities will be destroyed by suicidal terrorists with nukes in their suitcases. The economic structure will collapse under all the pressure. Democracy is mostly a joke and this will become increasingly apparent as freedoms are curtailed. Time: 20 to 30 years, if we are lucky. Oh, and the best American ideals will emerge, cleansed in the fire of adversity, and will spread far beyond your borders. But your country will be a wasteland. Real peace within a thousand years. Please take this in the vein that it was meant. You are Canadian aren’t you? I cannot say that many of our cities will never be attacked by suicidal nuke weilding horrists. But it will take far more than any fifty camel driving petrol republics can throw at us to bring all that about. Democracy a joke? I don’t see how. I know it does not operate in it’s purest form here, but then it was Never intended to. This is a capatalist democracy. That means “Come make you money here, & we’ll see to it that you don’t get raped for it like you would in any other nation out there.” Really that’s all there is to it. Pretty hard to beat, I daresay. Unless economic wealth somehow loses all virtue in the coming decades, it’s just not going to happen that way. Peace within 1000 years? Deffinately possible, & hopefully sooner. The US a Wasteland? Some would say it already is, so unless that’s what you meant… As for the topic at hand, my vote is for Aliens. We can always blow up asteroids. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/26 "2003-03-12T07:37:55Z")
I got it… Eventually the US will collapse under a critical mass of whining useless liberals, radical conservativism, special interests, moral relativism, welfare handouts, obesity and apathy. Eventually we’ll all be just a bunch of fat slobs, drinking a six pack, smoking a joint, living off of welfare checks and court settlements. Our heros will be barmaids and construction workers not for their working-class tenacity, but for their ability to behave outlandishly enough to appear on TV. We will worship slackers and buffoons and berate the successful for they must be oppressing others to have achieved so much. Eventually, as the rest of the world surpasses us, will all be happy to receive our daily UNICEF shipments of Budwiser, chicken wings and Girls Gone Wild videos. Children in China and Europe will ask “We do we keep sending food to all the fat American children? Won’t that just make them fatter?” “Well Ping, along time ago, America was the greatest nation on the planet, They had the smartest minds and the hardest workers. All the good ideas came out of America. Then something happened. No one wanted to work anymore. No one wanted to compete anymore. A lot of them figured that it was easier to bitch and moan demand handouts and subsidies and people would just give in. Many of them even became milionares by injuring themselves and blaming others for their stupidity. Everyone had an excuse for everything. Now…we just send them all those tapes of old Jerry Springer and FOX shows so they leave the rest of us alone. Now you and Xiang put away your hoverboards and teleport yourselves up to the sleep recepticle.” I guess it’s as likely to happen as all jobs leaving the US or being overrun by a combined coalition of Canadians, French, and men from Mars or asteroids and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/27 "2003-03-12T11:13:10Z")
Just for the record, there is no way in hell anyone could ever buy a SAM launcher, let alone the ordinance for one, legally here in the US. I foresee a gradual bringing up of the rest of the world, until the vast majority of the world is on parity with the US. then we start fighting about who gets the moon and mars. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/28 "2003-03-12T12:07:14Z")
Yellowstone caldera explodes, mass destruction, world-wide consequences. Have a nice day. [We’re due.](http://www.cotf.edu/ete/modules/volcanoes/vsizeserupt3.html) > [@](#): > > Given what we know about what a major eruption can do to the world’s environment, we can only guess at the conditions great eruptions create. However, we do know that many of the world’s great flood basalt eruptions correspond in time with some of the great periods of extinction of life in the earth’s past, which indicates extremely challenging climatic conditions for extended periods of time. Fortunately, the larger an eruption, the less frequently it occurs. Many small eruptions occur around the world every year, large eruptions occur every year or so, and major eruptions occur on scales of decades to centuries, while great eruptions… Well, the CRB, the world’s youngest major flood basalt deposit, is about 15 million years old. The Long Valley and Valles Calderas blew up, respectively, about 11 million and 700 thousand years ago. The Yellowstone caldera erupted about 600 thousand years ago. Certainly no great eruptions have occurred during recorded history. It would seem that humanity is unlikely to experience a great eruption anytime soon. **On the other hand, the Yellowstone blast is only the latest in a string of eruptions in that area that occur every 600 thousand years or so. And its about that time again…** [Official Yellowstone website on calderas.](http://www.yellowstonenationalpark.com/calderas.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/29 "2003-03-12T13:20:49Z")
Perhaps someday India, China or the EU will surpass the USA. From some of the American posters here, it seems like they would consider this a tragedy. There is nothing wrong with living in a middle power country. You can have just as good or even better quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/30 "2003-03-12T14:08:13Z")
Space shuttle explodes, burns up, crashes, etc. America- How terrible, what a waste of life, we should stop this waste. Lets save on tax money. Rest of the world- Eh, everything has risks. Stem cell research America- We are not God, lets pass laws against this Rest of world- recognizes it for an important avenue of research Education America- Flunking kids is too hard on them and their parents. We don’t want to make anybody feel bad, lets make everybody graduate, who cares if they actually learn the material Rest of world- Education is important World opinion- America- We are AMERICA, screw the rest of the world. Nothing can hurt us. Rest of the world- (control space, have the best medical technology, have the best education, etc etc) Giving America a pat on the head. “You sure are”. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/31 "2003-03-12T15:15:07Z")
People have been warning about an invasion by super-smart stem-cell enhanced supersoldiers from space for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/32 "2003-03-12T16:04:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*People have been warning about an invasion by super-smart stem-cell enhanced supersoldiers from space for decades. \*\* :eek: ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/33 "2003-03-12T16:42:34Z")
Hmmm… but how can you be sure you’re talking about an actual irreversible decline and a temporary slump? Long after the Roman empire ceased to be a military power, the Roman state stumbled on, often in bits and pieces. Technically, the Roman empire didn’t cease to exist until the Turks conquired Constantinople in the 15th century. Just as Rome wasn’t built in a day, neither did it disappear in a day. I’m guessing the U.S. won’t either. There are other examples of major powers that seemed awfully hard to kill. It took a whole series of wars with Rome before Carthage was finally laid to rest. I guess what I’m asking is: At what point would you officially proclaim the U.S. down for the count, and what criteria do you use in making that judgment? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/34 "2003-03-12T16:47:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LonesomePolecat \* > Technically, the Roman empire didn’t cease to exist until the Turks \*\* conquired \*\* Constantinople in the 15th century. I understand they even \*\* conquered \*\* it, too. Preview! Preview! Always preview! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/35 "2003-03-12T16:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess what I’m asking is: At what point would you officially proclaim the U.S. down for the count, and what criteria do you use in making that judgment? Once the Consitution is renounced, the US is finished. That’s pretty much the backbone of our nation. Get rid of it, and you get rid of the entire philosophy upon which this place was formed. Get rid of the philosophy, and the spirit of this place will be so unrecognizable that the US will no longer exist in any meaningful sense. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/36 "2003-03-12T19:37:41Z")
I think there’s a good chance it will go something like this, and in the not-so-distant future: [Terrorism Strikes Los Angeles](http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/14/features-ciotti.php) After the collapse of the economy of California, the country enters what will rapidly become a severe economic depression. Previously manageable budget deficits become an overwhelming strain on what’s left of the national economy; faced with increasingly balky foreign lenders facing their own financial difficulties, due to the worldwide effects of economic difficulties in the U.S., the government finds its credit sources rapidly drying up, putting further contraints on fiscal management. This continues the depletion of economic vitality and slows the coherent response to terrorism; the largest portion of our budget going to entitlement programs, the government is forced to make deep cuts in Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, putting immense pressure on private financial assistance programs for the needy. Class warfare becomes a political hot-button topic and the cracks are beginning to show in our body politic. Violent crime is on the rise, with assaults against “foreigners” at historic levels. Foreign governments respond angrily and tourism drops to minimal levels. Religiously motivated attacks against Muslims increase, providing further “proof” to terrorist organizations that America is anti-Islam, which fuels the growth and boldness of such groups. Further seemingly random attacks, such as suicide bombings on city buses, focused on major cities, chase away desperately needed business, which is followed by consumer flight to the suburbs. Cities like New York, Houston, Miami, Washington, D.C., Detroit, all become targets for daily threat of terrorist attacks, which cripple both international business(ports) and domestic business. The government cracks down, hard, on foreign-visitor travel in the U.S. Tamper-proof I.D. is issued, borders are further tightened, the move is begun to oust illegal aliens. And so on. The economic collapse of the U.S. results in a strong isolationist stance becoming official policy, military troops overseas are withdrawn (also due to above noted budget difficulties), and America suffers trade restrictions imposed by past friends, allies, and yes, other nations due to inability to repay foreign debt. Yep, I know, I’ve just taken the world’s powerhouse to darn near nothin’ in less than two hundred words. Yep, I left out all the little things, and some of the bigger things, that will all snowball into the crushing implosion of American economic superiority. Yep, I think it can happen. ---
**Author:** ![mozart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mozart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozart)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/37 "2003-03-15T20:05:34Z")
“…not with a bang…but a wimper.” ---
**Author:** ![HackDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@HackDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HackDriver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/38 "2003-03-15T21:02:38Z")
when the anti-Christ comes to power. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/39 "2003-03-15T21:51:31Z")
I also believe in the “corporations take over the world” theory. It isn’t as far-ferched as the asteroids or aliens theories. And here I am hoping that Brazil becomes the next super-power. Better food, better music and I want to learn portuguese. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Wrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mr.Wrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Wrong)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630/40 "2003-03-16T01:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Yellowstone caldera explodes, mass destruction, world-wide consequences. Have a nice day. Dadgummit, **Beagle**! This is what you do at seven in the morning!? I order you to get some rest, Soldier! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-the-u-s-meet-its-end/160630.md?page=1)