# How will this be enforced? (judge orders Trump administration to abide by his restraining order) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 10, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147 "2025-02-10T19:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/101 "2025-02-14T15:58:24Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Perhaps time and information? Does Trump know, specifically, who to pardon at the lowest levels of implementation (e.g. not Cabinet Secretaries or their immediate subordinates)? And is he willing to spend every waking hour dealing with pardons? That’s not a task he can delegate. “_I’ll pardon **everyone!** _” has its limits. He has no end of loyalists subordinate to him – both on and not on the government payroll – who can keep track of these things (who needs a pardon, and when), and if it is truly one of the few indispensable/undelegatable jobs of his Presidency, then – aside from my sense that it wouldn’t take all _that_ much time – I think he’d make it a priority. It’s also likely that Contempt charges – possibly landing the person in jail immediately – are one of the few things that truly require somewhat immediate action. The rest can form a queue that he can get to in between rounds of golf and Diet Cokes. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/102 "2025-02-14T15:59:00Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Plus, we’ve recently seen pre-emptive pardons, and pardons of large groups with no examination of individual merits. Something to think about: Ignoring the law goes both ways. “_You’ve got a presidential pardon? That’s nice … that and $7 will get you a Starbucks latte? Move it or eat lead!_” Admittedly … at that point, the Consitution is birdcage liner and we’re headlong into competing-warlords territory. One would think countenancing such scenarios would get someone somewhere to wake up. Maybe a Republican congressman or senator? Maybe several? We’re probably still in the “_Nah, that can’t happen_” stage. But any situation can reach a breaking point where all conventional knowledge inverts all at once and all kinds of loyal people do sudden and unforeseen 180s. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/103 "2025-02-14T16:00:23Z")
That’s kind of what I’m thinking; these guys in Congress do have their breaking point. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/104 "2025-02-14T16:03:18Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Perhaps time and information? Does Trump know, specifically, who to pardon at the lowest levels of implementation (e.g. not Cabinet Secretaries or their immediate subordinates)? Do you think he really gives a shit about anyone very far down the food chain? The 1/6 pardons were exceptional, because they went to a bunch of no name schmucks. But at least these were non name schmucks who were willing to take violent action to directly support Trump. Unless someone were at the very top of the organizational structure, directly appointed by Trump or his favorites, and/or strongly and openly supportive of and submissive to Trump, I have ZERO difficulty imagining Trump giving ZERO thought to such “little” people/casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/105 "2025-02-14T16:06:53Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Unless someone were at the very top of the organizational structure, directly appointed by Trump or his favorites, and/or strongly and openly supportive of and submissive to Trump, I have ZERO difficulty imagining Trump giving ZERO thought to such “little” people/casualties. But this also works in their favor. If he gets a list of suggested pardons from one of his minions, there’s no way he’s going to read it, and wonder why Joe Lunchbucket needs a pardon. He’ll just sign it, and then brag about it being the best pardon ever. He’ll start caring the day it comes out that the Pardon Minion is selling spaces on the list he gives Trump, and hasn’t been kicking back 70% to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/106 "2025-02-14T16:08:50Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Do you think he really gives a shit about anyone very far down the food chain? No, but to issue sufficient pardons so that federal-district court private enforcement can’t enforce a court order … low-level grunts would have to be pardoned. Low-level grunts execute (or impede) the actions of a properly-running government – not federal-agency management, not Cabinet secretaries, not Trump and not Musk. And even with that … “can’t enforce” is becoming a malleable concept. We’re truly in Wonderland now. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/107 "2025-02-14T16:13:54Z")
Ya know - on reflection, I can easily see how he might issue a pardon “for all folk in managerial positions taking actions consistent with this EO.” Issue something broad and let the little people figure it out. Meanwhile, he can move on and break something else. Really amazing how many aspects of our government are ill-prepared to deal with a narcissistic, amoral President who does not respect any rule of law other than the golden rule - he with the gold rules. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/108 "2025-02-14T16:19:06Z")
Something else about a federal pardon, even from the President: They only apply to federal _criminal_ convictions. A federal district court, via private enforcement to drive compliance, could hit low-level grunts – and their management – with onerous _civil_ penalties, perhaps to include asset seizure. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/109 "2025-02-14T16:21:27Z")
Which would be hugely burdensome … _if_ the MAGAs (the ones who blithely and gleefully funded some $100,000,000+ of Trump’s legal fees) actually ran out of money 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/110 "2025-02-14T16:29:53Z")
At the level of individual people who actually execute/impede government functions … it can be personally disconcerting and stressful to resist onerous civil penalties simply to do Trump/Musk’s bidding – even if you truly believe Trump/Musk will make you whole again eventually. Most will buckle more or less summarily and comply with enforced court orders. As a collective, federal civil service is not sufficiently Trumpist – and IMHO Trump/Musk can’t make over federal civil service over fast enough – to make it _that_ resistant, _at the level of individuals_, to federal district court enforcement actions. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/111 "2025-02-14T16:36:16Z")
In and before 2015, I wouldn’t have disagreed with you At. All. But if I’m in the Democrats’ bullpen, trying to game this out, then I’d be painfully mindful of what Sidney Powell, John Eastman, Giuliani, and all the other Insane Clown Posse were doing in 2020: trying to figure out how to circumvent the law to Trump’s advantage. And if the Democrats in power aren’t hoping for the best _while_ planning for the worst … we’re in big, big trouble. Trump is trying to replace the entire Federal workforce with loyalists. Even the ‘loyalty test’ he’s reportedly been sending out is a pretty good barometer for who’s willing to take a bit of pain for Dear Leader. I’m … rather far from sanguine. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/112 "2025-02-14T19:52:26Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s kind of what I’m thinking; these guys in Congress do have their breaking point. They seem pretty broken already. ‘Poor’ Mitch McConnell is coming to the sharp realization that not standing up to Trump for his previous term and having lead his non-MAGA wing of the Republican conservatives to do the same has rendered him completely impotent as a leader now that he’s actually opposed to several of Trump’s Cabinet picks. Don’t like RFJ Jr, Pete Hegseth, or Tulsi Gabbard because you think they represent a clear and present danger to the safety and security of the nation? Shut up, old man; your opinion means nothing anymore. If you see some measure or event that is going to cause the GOP to locate and reinstall its respective spine I’d like to hear it because thus far these people—even the ones who aren’t explicitly aligned with the MAGA movement—are about as solid and unyielding as Silly Putty. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/113 "2025-02-14T19:57:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If you see some measure or event that is going to cause the GOP to locate and reinstall its respective spine I’d like to hear it because thus far these people—even the ones who aren’t explicitly aligned with the MAGA movement—are about as solid and unyielding as Silly Putty. Obviously no promises can be made … but _should_ GOP spine reinstallation take place in the near future, it likely won’t be telegraphed. It’ll seem sudden like a fingersnap, and the impetus will likely seem odd and insignificant at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/114 "2025-02-16T23:11:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > When I first read Kuo’s paraphrase, it made me think a federal court had the (codified?) power to hire/deputize an entire private law enforcement arm – “police”, investigators, special prosecutors, the works. “_Rare, but possible in this environment._” I see nothing in the cited materials to support hiring private police, only prosecutors. A debate might be had in grounds that the Marshal’s Service was originally under the Judiciary, but that’s not in Young vs US. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/115 "2025-02-17T00:44:37Z")
Who’s going to do the arresting? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/116 "2025-02-17T15:28:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Arrest her, then, if it comes to that. > > Which it won’t, because Republicans have spent too long trying to gain control over the judiciary only to render them powerless now. Again, who can will arrest her? They all report to her. And you can say all you want that Congress don’t want the Judiciary powerless, but their support for Trump ensures it. They are too busy ceding their _own_ power to worry about the Judiciary. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/117 "2025-02-17T19:45:04Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > > [@bordelond](#): > > > > When I first read Kuo’s paraphrase, it made me think a federal court had the (codified?) power to hire/deputize an entire private law enforcement arm – “police”, investigators, special prosecutors, the works. “_Rare, but possible in this environment._” > > I see nothing in the cited materials to support hiring private police, only prosecutors. > > A debate might be had in grounds that the Marshal’s Service was originally under the Judiciary, but that’s not in _Young vs US_ . To be fair, neither Elias nor Kuo cited anything to support their claims. I did some quick Googling to find _Young_ and the 1988 NJ case. I am curious as to whether there is anything more out there in case law, the **[Code of Federal Regulations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Federal_Regulations)**, or anything like that. Because of the lack of citations by the authors, I remembered to at least put “police” in quotes – whatever law-enforcement staff the federal judiciary would scare up, they would be something different from (if comparable to) deputized police. One thing that occurs to me is that just because one side ceases to follow the rule of law doesn’t mean the other side necessarily remains bound by that same rule of law. Where that could lead, I can only speculate. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/118 "2025-02-19T15:13:58Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > > [@bordelond](#): > > > > When I first read Kuo’s paraphrase, it made me think a federal court had the (codified?) power to hire/deputize an entire private law enforcement arm – “police”, investigators, special prosecutors, the works. “_Rare, but possible in this environment._” > > I see nothing in the cited materials to support hiring private police, only prosecutors. > > A debate might be had in grounds that the Marshal’s Service was originally under the Judiciary, but that’s not in Young vs US. Someone commenting in Kuo’s Substack yesterday brought up federal courts hiring “_private enforcement officers_” and described it as “_literally a posse_”. The word “posse” – and its full form, “posse comitatus” – was one of the missing puzzle pieces. That lead to reading **[this piece on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_comitatus#Legal_status)** and learning of **[the roles of magistrate judges in federal district courts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_magistrate_judge)** and in turn, learning of **[42 U.S. Code § 1989](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1989#:~:text=The%20district%20courts%20of%20the,section%201987%20of%20this%20title%3B)** (bolding mine): > # 42 U.S. Code § 1989 - United States magistrate judges; appointment of persons to execute warrants > > The district courts of the United States and the district courts of the Territories, from time to time, shall increase the number of United States magistrate judges, so as to afford a speedy and convenient means for the arrest and examination of persons charged with the crimes referred to in [section 1987 of this title](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1987); and such magistrate judges are authorized and required to exercise all the powers and duties conferred on them herein with regard to such offenses in like manner as they are authorized by law to exercise with regard to other offenses against the laws of the United States. **Said magistrate judges are empowered, within their respective counties, to appoint, in writing, under their hands, one or more suitable persons, from time to time, who shall execute all such warrants or other process as the magistrate judges may issue in the lawful performance of their duties** , and the persons so appointed shall have authority to summon and call to their aid the bystanders or posse comitatus of the proper county, or such portion of the land or naval forces of the United States, or of the militia, as may be necessary to the performance of the duty with which they are charged; and such warrants shall run and be executed anywhere in the State or Territory within which they are issued. And that **[section 1987](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1987)** linked in 42 U.S. Code § 1989 above (bolding mine)? > # 42 U.S. Code § 1987 - Prosecution of violation of certain laws > > The United States attorneys, marshals, and deputy marshals, **the United States magistrate judges appointed by the district and territorial courts, with power to arrest, imprison, or bail offenders** , and every other officer who is especially empowered by the President, are authorized and required, at the expense of the United States, to institute prosecutions against all persons violating any of the provisions of [section 1990 of this title](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1990) or of sections 5506 to 5516 and 5518 to 5532 of the Revised Statutes, and to cause such persons to be arrested, and imprisoned or bailed, for trial before the court of the United States or the territorial court having cognizance of the offense. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/119 "2025-02-19T15:53:44Z")
Isn’t that what the US Marshals like the fictional Rooster Cogburn, and real Bass Reeves basically were? Sounds like they have pretty wide latitude to drag people into court by whatever means they need to use. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147/120 "2025-02-19T16:21:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Isn’t that what the US Marshals like the fictional Rooster Cogburn, and real Bass Reeves basically were? Unsure about Cogburn, but yes, Bass Reeves was appointed by a federal judge in 1875. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-this-be-enforced-judge-orders-trump-administration-to-abide-by-his-restraining-order/1014147.md?page=7)