# How will we know when our economy doesn't suck anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 17, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110 "2009-06-17T21:23:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110/41 "2009-06-21T04:33:28Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Sure XT believes it will recover. [/QUOTE] Yes…I am the lone voice in the wilderness who thinks the economy will recover some day. The vast majority of economists think this is the final crash, the end of America…er, or maybe it’s just a few lone nutballs who feel that way. It’s hard to say. One thing I do have on my side is that historical precedence stuff. Of course, this COULD be the end… _cue dramatic music!_ > [@](#): > > He thought every thing was fine. You wouldn’t know what I thought if it sat in your lap and called you mama, Gonzo old boy. > [@](#): > > The houses are not gone yet. They are empty. They are being neglected. Some communities are talking about bulldozing them. They will stay empty due to increasing unemployment and tightened credit. We can not go home again. I can feel my heart string tugging and…ok, no, actually I’ve now strained my eyes from all the rolling. But you keep on thinkin what you want, Gonz…I couldn’t convince the CT nutters to give over the 9/11 BS, I’m not going to get YOU to see reason either. Not the guy who started that fine interest rate thread in the Pit, clearly demonstrating your own keen grasp of how simple math (let alone business) works, ehe? As for your fine article from prison planet (an unbiased news outlet if ever I’ve seen one), even they seem to indicate that a recovery is at least theoretically possible (if we shoot all those responsible, or something)…why can’t you? 😛 > [@](#): > > One of the leading business schools in America - the Wharton School of Business - has written an essay on the psychological causes and solutions to the economic crisis. Wharton points out that restoring trust is the key to **recovery** , and that trust cannot be restored until wrongdoers are held accountable: My emphasis…also, my irony, as I’m sure it’s lost on you 'mano. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110/42 "2009-06-21T09:05:10Z")
> [@](#): > > How will we know when our economy doesn’t suck anymore? When we no longer get extremely polite, excellent service at even the crappiest diners. This will mean that the more ambitious, better skilled workers can find better jobs, and the crappy diners are having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for servers and other workers again. I have found that service everywhere has dramatically improved, because so very many competent workers are having to take whatever jobs they can. When our economy improves, I expect that I will have to put up with store employees who are more interested in their next break than in keeping their jobs again. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110/43 "2009-06-21T09:37:42Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well…yeah. Of course most of us assume that the economy will (eventually) recover. Hell, even the Japanese economy eventually recovered, after all. It did? Says who? > [@](#): > > (we’ll have to see how the toxic debt finally gets flushed from the system, for instance) Inflate away the home value crash. The sooner, the better. But of course, the people who have all the money really _really_ don’t want that to happen, and are happy guzzling up the rewards of 0% inflation. There are plenty of winners in this market. > [@](#): > > , but eventually there will be a recovery and a resurgence. It might not happen next year…heck, it might not happen in Obama’s first term, or maybe not even in his second (I doubt it, but with the rate our debt is going up, maybe), but it will happen eventually. The US simply has too many resources, is too good an investment NOT to have it recover eventually. “it’s a good investment because it will recover, and it will recover because it’s a good investment” isn’t strong enough. Home prices will never ever ever never ever (like, ever ever) be as high in “real dollars” as they were about 3 years ago. Ever. There’s no resurgence from that. We’re going to stagnate around 0% inflation for a long, long time. We’re going to have pretty high unemployment for a long, long time. The middle class will earn lower and lower in comparison to the big guys, in a trend that will probably continue to get wider for a long, long time. How can you imagine otherwise? People will start buying up houses again? With what money? Banks wont lend money to buy houses that aren’t increasing in value. Developers won’t build houses that won’t even cover their construction expenses when they’re sold, so the people they would be employing won’t be able to get out of the unemployment line. The government won’t ever actually stimulate inflation to help those of us stuck with the lifelong burden of debt on our houses. Do you understand what this means for those people? We’re talking about serious multiples of an entire household’s annual income covering the difference between what they bought their house for and what it’s worth. Or, they can foreclose on their home and stick the bank with that loss, causing the banks to be even more miserly with their lending policy. We’re fucked for fifteen years at least. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110/44 "2009-06-21T10:28:44Z")
When you have unemployment less than 6% **and** a balanced budget. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110/45 "2009-06-21T15:56:19Z")
I’m not sure we’ll ever see that whole balanced budget thing again, even if the economy improves. Our society has grown accustomed to the promises of politicians cutting taxes while increasing spending, and no one has the balls to tell us that we need to take our medicine. So every politician will attempt to push the issue down the road, and we’ll keep accumulating debt until the whole scheme comes tumbling down. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110/46 "2009-06-21T18:42:19Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yes…I am the lone voice in the wilderness who thinks the economy will recover some day. The vast majority of economists think this is the final crash, the end of America…er, or maybe it’s just a few lone nutballs who feel that way. It’s hard to say. > > One thing I do have on my side is that historical precedence stuff. Of course, this COULD be the end… _cue dramatic music!_ > > You wouldn’t know what I thought if it sat in your lap and called you mama, Gonzo old boy. > > I can feel my heart string tugging and…ok, no, actually I’ve now strained my eyes from all the rolling. But you keep on thinkin what you want, Gonz…I couldn’t convince the CT nutters to give over the 9/11 BS, I’m not going to get YOU to see reason either. Not the guy who started that fine interest rate thread in the Pit, clearly demonstrating your own keen grasp of how simple math (let alone business) works, ehe? > > As for your fine article from prison planet (an unbiased news outlet if ever I’ve seen one), even they seem to indicate that a recovery is at least theoretically possible (if we shoot all those responsible, or something)…why can’t you? 😛 > > My emphasis…also, my irony, as I’m sure it’s lost on you 'mano. > > -XT Love your dishonesty. I knew you would make a point of Prison Planet, but they did not write the story. They did not create it. They just printed it. I knew damn well you would go there. Can you ever deal with the subject? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-will-we-know-when-our-economy-doesnt-suck-anymore/500110.md?page=2)