I would say, “When Detroit, and other cities like it, reach a sustainable size. With the appropriate balance of business, population, and developed areas. With new parks and nature preserves making the city an attractive space for people to live.”
I live in St Louis. It’s not exactly a model of a thriving urban business environment. BUT… I can’t tell you how many people I know that still live and work here by choice, in spite of the struggles that businesses have had recently (with closing of headquarters right and left) and the dicey economic situation. We still live here because many areas of south St Louis were intelligently planned, with plenty of green space within the urban environment. It’s a quality of life thing – and I think that’s getting more and more important for people who are realizing that climbing the business ladder may not be a realistic goal in today’s economy. We are a young(-ish) professional couple with a child, and a number of St Louis city neighborhoods offer people like us a great opportunity for a good work/life balance. Where we live has big parks you can walk or bike to, local restaurants and coffee shops you can walk to, good arts and sports opportunities, and a short commute with reasonable amounts of traffic.
If Detroit were to convert to something like that, with good urban planning, I would definitely consider it a place to move. Perhaps businesses would see it the same way?
The reply you quoted was to a different point. Much like the town in Kansas that was leveled by the huge tornado and built with technology, science, and the environment in mind, I have the same aspirations for Detroit, for, if it can happen in Detroit, then it can happen anywhere (a little hyperbole).
What does the little man have to do with it? But thanks for telling me what I think. I do get confused so easily.
Of course you confused a ponzi scheme with a casino. They are different ,you know.
Yeah…I’m aware that there is a difference. I’m also aware that there is a difference between ‘the market’ and ‘the stock market’, which is a distinction that seems lost on you. In addition, neither resembles either a ponzi scheme OR a casino.
Of course. There is no gambling at all. The stock market is a sure thing. you can not lose. Otherwise it would have a gambling element. (casinolike)
What does Ponzi have to do with anything?
Ah…so, if it’s not a sure thing then it’s just like a casino? Yup…that analogy makes perfect sense! Thank’s for 'splaining it.
In general, people who talk about ‘the market’ (while meaning ‘the stock market’) include ponzi scheme in their list of analogies. Apologies that I mis-underheard you. You did say it’s like a casino, and did not mention ponzi schemes. My bad.
Houses here are already starting to sell for 10s of thousands more than the asking price again. Of course, the asking prices are less than half what they were 3 years ago.
When my cousin sold his house in Phoenix he got about half of what the house was worth 2 to 3 years ago. Totally sucked.
Of course, to put it in perspective, when the dot com bust happened I not only lost my job but my stock options in the company (something like 60k shares) went from a high of $48/share to (IPO was $22/share and we could buy up to a 1/3 of our initial stock shares at 15/share)...well, around .23/share.
This particular down turn has really not effected me at all, at least not yet. And I don’t expect it will, either…not this time. The point, though, is that I know people who weren’t effected at all by the dot com bust, and who didn’t really notice the down turn…and, so, didn’t really notice the recovery afterward. I expect that this time will be similar…people who are intimately effected by the down turn will, perhaps, notice a recovery (or that it doesn’t suck so much anymore at least), while those less effected won’t really notice, since it doesn’t really suck all that much to them. To me, the suckage this go around is mostly academic and mental…I KNOW things are really bad, intellectually, but from my own perspective things are pretty good atm. I just had the bank (Well’s Fargo) call us out of the blue to offer us refinancing at over 2 points below our old interest rate on the house. They called US to make the offer…bankers. Unreal. It’s going to save us a ton, they are going to pay the closing costs, and it seems a complete win for us (I’m totally puzzled what they get out of it, to be honest). The only down side in my own life atm is my 401K and mutual funds…and, frankly, those are long term investments to me. I’m down maybe $70k since the crash…this is chump change compared to my losses during the dot com bust. Hardly worth noticing, especially if the economy recovers some time in the next 10-15 years when I’m looking to retire.
I work for a company that builds high-end luxury yachts. 4 years ago we were selling about 100 boats a year. Last year we sold less than 20, so far this year we have sold 5.
I think when we get back to about 50 that will be a good sign.
I bought a house in Phoenix in 2006 and I worked for Bear Stearns. My wife is a chef at a high-end establishment that relies on tourism for business. I’m trying to think of how it could’ve hit me harder.
Well…yeah. Of course most of us assume that the economy will (eventually) recover. Hell, even the Japanese economy eventually recovered, after all. Of course, if you base your view on how the economy works on thinking the stock market is analogous to a casino, I guess it’s not hard to make the leap that the economy won’t ever recover.
The same way it has in the past I suppose. Oh, there will be different wrinkles (we’ll have to see how the toxic debt finally gets flushed from the system, for instance), but eventually there will be a recovery and a resurgence. It might not happen next year…heck, it might not happen in Obama’s first term, or maybe not even in his second (I doubt it, but with the rate our debt is going up, maybe), but it will happen eventually. The US simply has too many resources, is too good an investment NOT to have it recover eventually.
Where did they go? This is similar thinking to the ‘lost wealth’ during the Great Depression…the houses are still there, gonzo.
I wish you could too…but I think you’d have to give up some of your cherished world view on how stuff actually functions in the real universe. And, sadly, I am not sanguine about the out come of that…
Sure XT believes it will recover. He thought every thing was fine. He never demonstrated the ability or desire to question those who were looting away. The great American enterprise system that we exported proudly to the world as the answer to the world became its problem. We allowed highly educated thieves a free reign on the financial markets of the world. They helped themselves. They are getting the fed to allow them to start all over.
The houses are not gone yet. They are empty. They are being neglected. Some communities are talking about bulldozing them. They will stay empty due to increasing unemployment and tightened credit. We can not go home again.